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Thread: Grand Rapids Press, gun rights article

  1. #1
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    http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi..._spurs_de.html

    could use some help with the comments here, too many morons, too little time. thanks.


    'Empty Holster Protest' spurs debate about ban on concealed weapons at Grand Rapids Community College by Rick Wilson | The Grand Rapids Press Tuesday April 07, 2009, 9:50 AM Lori Niedenfuer Cool | The Grand Rapids PressGrand Rapids Community College students Josh Eberly, 25, left, of Grand Rapids, and Jeff Kellogg, 23, of Ada, members of the Empty Holster Protest, oppose limits on their ability to carry concealed weapons on campus. GRAND RAPIDS -- If someone should start shooting, Jeff Kellogg wants to be packing his own heat.
    But Steve Sager believes that kind of protection should be left up to police.
    That's the debate this week at Grand Rapids Community College, sparked by a student group taking part in the national Empty Holster Protest, supporting laws allowing the carrying of concealed weapons on campus.
    Grand Rapids Community College student says guns should be allowed on campus
    Kellogg, 23, of Ada Township, is one of nine members who took part Monday in the protest that will go national April 20-24. The group's 50 members plan to quietly wear empty holsters this week in advance of the national event to provoke conversation with fellow students about GRCC's policy prohibiting weapons on campus.
    Current state law allows those possessing a concealed weapons permit to carry them except in gun-free zones, such as bars, churches or schools. The current law allows carrying a concealed weapon on a college campus except in classrooms and dorms.
    The national group was formed the day after the Virginia Tech shootings that left 33 dead in 2007. Members of the group that formed here in December say there is a contradiction between state law and GRCC's policy prohibiting weapons anywhere on campus.
    Sager, an 18-year-old nursing student from Rockford, said he sees nothing wrong with the current weapons ban. He noted the same laws gun advocates say do not stop people from killing also do not stop those with concealed weapons permits from potentially abusing the privilege.
    "It's clearly unnecessary to carry weapons on campus," Sager said.
    "I understand maybe they could react faster than the police, but the danger of a lot of people carrying weapons on campus far outweighs that."
    Lt. Harold Woolworth of the Grand Rapids Community College Police Department agrees, saying the current policy works to ensure a safe environment without the added distraction of students having to wonder if their fellow students are armed.
    "We just feel it's safer if we don't have a lot of extra guns on campus," Woolworth said. "In this environment, we want students to be able to focus on the instructors and not have to worry about whether their peers have a gun."
    Josh Eberly, the student group's president, said Monday was a good start to an important debate. He estimated group members made contact with some 200 students.
    "Some agree, some don't," Eberly said.
    "I expect it will snowball from here."
    E-mail the author of this story: localnews@grpress.com


  2. #2
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    xd-40 wrote:
    "We just feel it's safer if we don't have a lot of extra guns on campus," Woolworth said. "In this environment, we want students to be able to focus on the instructors and not have to worry about whether their peers have a gun."
    Josh Eberly, the student group's president, said Monday was a good start to an important debate. He estimated group members made contact with some 200 students.
    Extra, who has them now?

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    I left a reply but I doubt if it will get the same attention as the replies that were first on the screen.

    It appears that much of the readership sits to the left and believes in unicorns, hope, and change.

    I like the guy who advocates carrying a bow and arrow and asks the people to "man-up".

    What a nut.

    LOL



  4. #4
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    GRAND RAPIDS -- If someone should start shooting, Jeff Kellogg wants to be packing his own heat.
    Don't you just love when writer show their own ignorance and biases.
    May be the writer should have said " wants to provide for his own defense when no one else can."

    But Steve Sager believes that kind of protection should be left up to police.

    Yes that is true, but what if they are not there and can't protect you then what?


    "I understand maybe they could react faster than the police, but the danger of a lot of people carrying weapons on campus far outweighs that."
    I would like to what dangers he may be talking about.


    Lt. Harold Woolworth of the Grand Rapids Community College Police Department agrees, saying the current policy works to ensure a safe environment without the added distraction of students having to wonder if their fellow students are armed.
    This is the lamest statement I have ever heard. What distractions is he talking about.


    "We just feel it's safer if we don't have a lot of extra guns on campus," Woolworth said.
    The we must mean him and the other campus cops. Nothing about the student being safer. I don't care how you feel Lt Woolworth I care about all student being safer.



    "In this environment, we want students to be able to focus on the instructors and not have to worry about whether their peers have a gun."
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

    Dalai Lama

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    http://www.generalnewsgroup.com/

  5. #5
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    My reply was rejected as It was too pro 2A and the fact that I quoted CPL regs and so on... the blog owner has to approve every post so he can control what is said.

    I post under the name Autosurgeon on Mlive
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  6. #6
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    how long ago did you post? it does take a few minutes.


  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yeah I know about the delay I posted at 11:30 am or so and got the message that it had to be approved by the blog owner... and for the record there was nothing inflammatory or inappropriate in my post he just chose to ignore mine.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    don't know if it's the same one, but a post from autosurgeon is finally showing.

    is this your first use of Mlive comment area? I remember when I first used it, my posts were flagged to be approved first, but now they are up within a couple minutes. ?????

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I have been posting on mlive for about a year... and yes several of my later posts are showing now but first post which would have ben the second on this article is missing in cyberspace...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
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    I posted, but I don't hold much hope towards non-rejection.

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    The people who criticize this effort have forgotten that armed citizenry does work: The Pearl High School Massacre in Mississippi which ended when the Assistant Principal held the student until the police arrived with his .357 magnum revolver and the Appalachian School of Law shooting which ended when 2 students with handguns eventually stopped a very deadly situation bear this out. People are only too willing to dictate to others how to go about their lives: but they don't have to live with the damage caused by following their poor advice.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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