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Thread: Detained for OC

  1. #1
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    Pardon any omitted facts as I'm still mad about the incident...

    Shopping at WalMart at 1am, needed some r-134 for a car I'm working on. I was there getting the same thing 3 hours ago, found out I needed more so I went back. No problem in the store whatsoever. Talked to the cashier about how it's crazy that you have to be 18 to but compressed air but not R-134...

    Greeter checked my receipt on the way out the door, told him have a nice night. I saw him 2 nights ago as well, I'm sure he recognized me. Got out to the car, started backing up and saw a cruiser heading my way with all his lights off. Yep.

    My method of carry: Strong side IWB, sweatshirt tucked behind. Full-frame Taurus PT1911. It's obvious what it is. Sweatshirt did not fall over it. It was still like that when the officer removed it from my holster. Don't judge, my primary carry piece is out on loan to a close friend who is in-between handguns and no paddle holsters fit the 1911 (rail is too big). I have a CCDW permit.

    6 cars. Yes 6. It was obvious that I was not free to leave. Walmart called me in on a MWAG. They stopped me in the parking lot. The first thing out of my mouth was, "Seriously, in a parking lot?" I informed of CCDW status. I got the "Keep your hands where I can see them while you get out of the car" which is IMPOSSIBLE if you follow KY state law (Click it or Ticket). The officer has me turn to face the car while he disarms me. They start to put the handgun on the trunk and I told them no way, it'll scratch the paint. They didn't like that. He asks for my CCDW and License, I got the "Concealed means Concealed" speech, the "I'm a $1000 member of the NRA" speech, the Disorderly Conduct/Inducing Panic/Causing Alarm speech, the OMG it was cocked reaction (1911 duh! I can't believe this reaction from people who carry a gun for a living). The officer told me to calm down a couple of times even though I wasn't being unreasonable with my tone. There were several training officers present, I'm pretty sure there were 2 trainees as well. I got the names of the 2 officers closer to me. They promised to take me to jail if they got another call on me tonight, I promised that I would be contacting their supervisor.

    I will also be contacting WalMart. Nobody asked me to leave, nor was is apparent that any of the people that I talked to were in any unsettled about the situation inside the store. As far as I can tell, I am still welcomed in the store, as no member of management/Loss Prevention/Cashier/Stockboy asked me to leave. I was abiding by state law, much to the dismay of the officers. They told me I can't OC because someone who is not familiar with guns could panic. He said that his wife and daughther would have reacted the same way.

    Guess what, I came back clean. They berated me some more for excercising my rights. I pointed out to them that there were 6 people standing around me, all OC. They asked me to open the trunk so they could put the weapon in it. I refused to open the trunk. They laid it on the ground behind the car.

    I called the Supervisor, he backed up the actions of the officers. He said they have to respond to a MWAG call with every available officer. I asked him if anyone made a distinction between a man waving a gun over his head and one who has his holstered, as mine was. He said it doesn't make a difference.

    I will be calling the legal affairs office tomorrow to get whatever footage I can. I already know that if I had done anything wrong that I would have gone for a ride, I've had that tried on me before (Jeff Co Sheriff), along with the threat that if they saw me OC again that I wouldn't beat that ride. A law-abiding citizen shouldn't have to put up with threats from the Gov't when, in fact, no crime has been committed.

    Next step?

    The last time I was checked out for peek-a-boo (on the motorcycle, shirt flew up) the weapon was never unholstered, LEO put his hand on the backstrap while I reached for my wallet. Got out the CCDW, the officer mentioned something about retention and I was on my way. One unmarked cruiser. This time could have gone the same way, but for whatever reason it didn't.

  2. #2
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    I say talk to an lawyer and weigh your options. At the very least, I would file an official complaint.

  3. #3
    Regular Member hobbles's Avatar
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    ........ "Fear nothin but God"
    "You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." ~ John Quincy Adams

    ** Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. **

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    Where, exactly, did this happen?

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    Sounds like conspiracy for deprivation of rights between Wal-Mart and the Middletown P.D.

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    dtabb wrote:
    Where, exactly, did this happen?
    Middletown Walmart, 8th Police District.

    Waiting for a call back from Metro PD.

    I just got off the phone with WalMart. It was a customer that made the MWAG call. Dispatch called the management, management gave them my description and it was noted that I wasn't reaching for it, brandishing, waving it over my head, trying to rob the place, etc. Manager suggested that I carry concealed (Former FL resident). He mentioned something about carrying within a certain distance of a bank (they have a bank inside) but I told him that I carry in my bank all the time so he dropped that one. He mentioned something about WM being private property and that he would prefer that I leave it in the car, I asked him about posting it at the entrance but he declined. He said management wouldn't have done anything as I wasn't threatening.

    As far as I am concerned, my issue with Walmart is over. He told me that when he heard about the incident this morning that he knew I would be a bit steamed. When I told him about my treatment in the parking lot, he agreed that it shouldn't have happened like that.

    So now it's down to Metro PD and their handling of a MWAG call.

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    Regular Member hobbles's Avatar
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    Middletown, Is that in Ohio?
    ........ "Fear nothin but God"
    "You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." ~ John Quincy Adams

    ** Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. **

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    hobbles wrote:
    Middletown, Is that in Ohio?
    Should have clarified... Middletown is in Jefferson Co, KY. I should have said East End in Louisville.

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    I have noticed ever since that story came out that there was going to be a gang initiation there has been more calls from walmart cust or management

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    It's in both.

    Middletown, OH is midway between Cincinnati and Dayton.

    Middletown, KY is near Louisville.

    Google Maps is your friend.

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    dtabb wrote:
    Where, exactly, did this happen?
    Middletown Walmart, 8th Police District.

    Waiting for a call back from Metro PD.

    I just got off the phone with WalMart. It was a customer that made the MWAG call. Dispatch called the management, management gave them my description and it was noted that I wasn't reaching for it, brandishing, waving it over my head, trying to rob the place, etc. Manager suggested that I carry concealed (Former FL resident). He mentioned something about carrying within a certain distance of a bank (they have a bank inside) but I told him that I carry in my bank all the time so he dropped that one. He mentioned something about WM being private property and that he would prefer that I leave it in the car, I asked him about posting it at the entrance but he declined. He said management wouldn't have done anything as I wasn't threatening.

    As far as I am concerned, my issue with Walmart is over. He told me that when he heard about the incident this morning that he knew I would be a bit steamed. When I told him about my treatment in the parking lot, he agreed that it shouldn't have happened like that.

    So now it's down to Metro PD and their handling of a MWAG call.
    And theirtotal lack of reasonable suspicion, etc.

    Are you familiar with this incident?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/23248.html

    Keep us posted.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    First, use a freedom of information-like request to get all relevant documents, tapes, communications, etc.BEFORE filing a complaint.

    Then, fileaFORMAL complaint, get a form (which they surely have), don't accept stories that "If you just tell me,I'll take care of it".

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    edit-oops my bad.

    sorry to hear that. Here we are giving out all our positive stories and you get hassled. They're in the wrong. Maybe we need to do some sort of open carry meet up in downtown louisville. or right next to the pd.

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    tito887 wrote:
    v8shoguy wrote:
    ENTIRE POST QUOTED
    sorry to hear that. Here we are giving out all our positive stories and you get hassled. They're in the wrong. Maybe we need to do some sort of open carry meet up in downtown louisville. or right next to the pd.
    Suggestion - use "Reply" instead of "Quote", or use "Quote" and simply delete the bulk of the post you are quoting when your intention is merely to reply as you have.

    Doing sosaves bandwidth and screen space.

  15. #15
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    I don't know much about the FOIA, how do I do that?

    BB62 wrote
    And theirtotal lack of reasonable suspicion, etc.

    Are you familiar with this incident?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/23248.html

    Keep us posted.
    I've been watching that one, I have a place in Cincy as well.

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    You mean these reports?

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2009...ion-update.htm

    THAT, my friends, is a perfect example of Inducing Panic. It's because people start things like this that we get stopped even though we are doing nothing wrong.

    Stories make people panic over the sight of a firearm, not the firearm itself.

  17. #17
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    v8shoguy,

    Please keep us posted what you learn today from LMPD. Who are you attempting to speak with? What approach are you taking in order to get their attention? If this goes nowhere in the next day, or so, let me know . . . and I'll hook you up with folks in the higher echelons. Of course, I would like you to try the formal communication channels first.

    Reg

  18. #18
    Regular Member hobbles's Avatar
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    Yep BB62, Google Maps is my friend. But when I ask Google where Middletown was that v8shoguy had his problem in, it couldn't help me.
    ........ "Fear nothin but God"
    "You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." ~ John Quincy Adams

    ** Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. **

  19. #19
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    hobbles wrote:
    Yep BB62, Google Maps is my friend. But when I ask Google where Middletown was that v8shoguy had his problem in, it couldn't help me.
    ?

    Don't ask Google, ask Google Maps:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

    Type "middletown, ky" into the search box, and came up with a map clearly showing where Middletown, KY is:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=middle...13&iwloc=A

  20. #20
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    v8shoguy wrote:
    I don't know much about the FOIA, how do I do that?
    I suggest you PM SuperDemon:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/users/11192.html

    and ask him for advice on how to use KY's "freedom of information" law, or alternately, ask him to take part in this thread.

    Let's see what that produces first.

  21. #21
    Regular Member hobbles's Avatar
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    fternoon BB62,
    I missed in his post where he said it was in Ky.
    ........ "Fear nothin but God"
    "You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." ~ John Quincy Adams

    ** Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. **

  22. #22
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    hobbles wrote:
    fternoon BB62,
    I missed in his post where he said it was in Ky.
    I understand -it was easy to miss.

    Also, note that he posted his incident in the KY forum.

    Oh, I forgot - WELCOME to OCDO!

  23. #23
    Regular Member hobbles's Avatar
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    Thanks,,
    ........ "Fear nothin but God"
    "You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." ~ John Quincy Adams

    ** Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. **

  24. #24
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    If you don't find an attorney and follow up with legal action,you're nuts. 42USC1982. If your post is correct. and I believe it to be,you have a slam dunk case. They held you against your willwhen you have violated nolaw ofthe Commonwealth. I'm quite sure being in a Wal-Mart after midnight is not in the KRS. Good Luck!!
    Speed is fine
    Accuracy is final

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    I have posted what I know. If anyone knows of a pro-2a civil rights attorney in the Louisville area, I am interested. I will field any questions that anyone has. I'm not claiming to be the poster-child for OC, but will do what I can for the cause. It really pissed me off when the officer told me that my rights ended at the point where someone becomes uncomfortable. If that's the case, we have alot less rights than we thought we had.

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