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Thread: Mike Stollenwerk's video testimoney to DC Council re Ensign amendment last night (7 APR 09)

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    go to http://oct.dc.gov/services/on_demand..._STATEHOOD.asx

    Start time hack 3.04.50 for my panel start (Brady Bunch speakers lead off).

    Start time for my testimony: 3:16:40

    Panel then stayed up there for a while council members made anti-gun statements and asked me weird questions about prostitution in Nevada.

    Quote of the night: "How do you feel Mr. Ramsey . . . when you have to compete against groups like the NRA [and] OpenCarry.org . . . to try to get as much of a level playing field as you can?" - DC At Large Council Member Michael Brown at time hack 03.39.50.

    Mike Stollenwerk
    co-founder, OpenCarry.org
    & DC Gun Rights Examiner for The Examiner.com

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    I love the councilmen's comment about how it is "extreme" to have an outsider try to govern them.

    He doesn't take into account the RIFE corruption and city mismanagement which populates the first 5 minutes of local news at least once a month, if not more.

    Last night it was the DC DMV inspectors taking bribes to pass DC taxis. Previously it was the city controller’s office and the embezzlement of millions of dollars.

    It's obvious to all but them that they need outsider's to govern them given the half-baked job they do of governing themselves. Illinois has nothing on the District when it comes to political corruption and mismanagement.

    Get your own house in order; THEN you may be indignant on being able to govern yourself.




    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Ok... Why should DC be allowed to regulate prostitution but not guns? Answer is simple: Prostitution is not a constitutionally protected right, gun ownership is.

    IfAmerica creates a amendment stating "The rights of the people to pay for sex shall not be infringed" I would also support prostitution preemption for DC as well.

    Also, his belief that Stollenwerk does not pay taxes to DC is FALSE. Every US citizen pays taxes to the treasury.Congress then allocates at LEAST several HUNDRED million dollars to DC as part of the yearly "District of Columbia Appropriations Act".

    And what's up with Mendelson's beef with semi-automatic shotguns? No problems with semi auto rifles, but shotguns are bad? What gives with that?




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    Mike wrote:
    go to http://oct.dc.gov/services/on_demand..._STATEHOOD.asx

    Start time hack 3.04.50 for my panel start (Brady Bunch speakers lead off).

    Start time for my testimony: 3:16:40

    Panel then stayed up there for a while council members made anti-gun statements and asked me weird questions about prostitution in Nevada.

    Quote of the night: "How do you feel Mr. Ramsey . . . when you have to compete against groups like the NRA [and] OpenCarry.org . . . to try to get as much of a level playing field as you can?" - DC At Large Council Member Michael Brown at time hack 03.39.50.

    Mike Stollenwerk
    co-founder, OpenCarry.org
    & DC Gun Rights Examiner for The Examiner.com
    Eight (8) against one (1) is not fair (smile)!!You held your own, Mike!!:celebrateYou hang in there and keep up the fight.

    Maybe one day, everyone will be able to protect themselves inside and outside of their homes! The council members (in my opinion) need to understand that there are guns in the District already that are being used for criminal purposes. Since 1974, guns have been banned in the District and there were still murders with guns!!!THEY DO NOT GET IT!!!That Mr. Brown was dumbfounded when you told him that you wanted his kids to have the right to carry guns (to make them the same......paraphrasing, of course).

    Stay the course, Mike! You're DA Man!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X



    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    I like your style, Mike.

    I also like that you introduced the political elements about critical mass, and we'll be back.

    I wonder if there is any utility in pointing out the ridiculous disconnect between claiming a basic right to congressional representation, yet denying a basic human right to self-defense, or burdening it so much as to discourage its exercise.

    And, I wonder if a little plain speaking might not be useful. A little bit of, "Lets be honest here, you all want congressional representation not for the people of DC but for your own political power."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    I like your style, Mike.

    I also like that you introduced the political elements about critical mass, and we'll be back.

    I wonder if there is any utility in pointing out the ridiculous disconnect between claiming a basic right to congressional representation, yet denying a basic human right to self-defense, or burdening it so much as to discourage its exercise.

    And, I wonder if a little plain speaking might not be useful. A little bit of, "Lets be honest here, you all want congressional representation not for the people of DC but for your own political power."
    +1!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    I'm not at all familiar with how things work in DC, but I'm wondering how much(if any)of my federal taxes goes to supportthe district'sinfrastructure - money that would(or at least should)go away if they became a state.

    And also, what part of 'criminals will have guns anyway' don't they understand?

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    Notso wrote:
    I'm not at all familiar with how things work in DC, but I'm wondering how much(if any)of my federal taxes goes to supportthe district'sinfrastructure - money that would(or at least should)go away if they became a state.

    And also, what part of 'criminals will have guns anyway' don't they understand?
    That's just it, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND!!IMHO, the DC Council equates criminalswith law-abiding citizens. In their discussions, they do not distinguish between the two, which is not fair to us law-abiding citizens!!

    There is so much that Mike could have said. It is regrettable that he only was given three (3) minutes to do it. The fact is that the DC Council could care less about what he says.........I am just glad that he said it in the manner that he did and he made it clear that the fight will continue (at least that is how I understood him)!:celebrate

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    It seems to me that the main points of the Panel's arguments (against RKBA) hangs on:

    1) DC's right to institute regulation as a "state" under their own home rule.

    2) 2nd amendment only applies to self defense.

    3) Mike was not a resident of DC and therefore should not have a valid opinion.

    4) Gun control reduces violence.

    I don't see any of these, logically, as valid argument points.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    demnogis wrote:
    It seems to me that the main points of the Panel's arguments (against RKBA) hangs on:

    1) DC's right to institute regulation as a "state" under their own home rule.

    2) 2nd amendment only applies to self defense.

    3) Mike was not a resident of DC and therefore should not have a valid opinion.

    4) Gun control reduces violence.

    I don't see any of these, logically, as valid argument points.
    My sentiments exactly!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    I can already see that holding off on commenting till the end is more than I can bear. Ms. Chen sounds completely off her rocker. Every single sentence she says is so...out there. "We cannot be complicit in this attempt to pass laws for our own protection and safety". What the...? "Yet, we're told, as the price of possibly getting voting rights we're required to give up that protection". Is she...aware she's in the USA? Has she everheard ofthe Constitution? I'm flabbergasted by everything she had to say. If any of you skipped past it, give her a listen, she's the first person after Mr. Brown opens up the discussion. She thinks that the post Heller laws are reasonable!?

    Mike, yourrestraint is far greater than mine. I would have been standing up yelling at her for being looney right off the bat. These people...they all seem to want the perks of an actual state, yet don't want to have to stick to the Constitution...anyhow, thanks for posting this video, after seeing these people I can only start seriously considering contacting my congressmen/senators and advising that they deny statehood to this bunch of...people, since they're clearly out of touch with reality.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    I can already see that holding off on commenting till the end is more than I can bear. Ms. Chen sounds completely off her rocker. Every single sentence she says is so...out there. "We cannot be complicit in this attempt to pass laws for our own protection and safety". What the...? "Yet, we're told, as the price of possibly getting voting rights we're required to give up that protection". Is she...aware she's in the USA? Has she everheard ofthe Constitution? I'm flabbergasted by everything she had to say. If any of you skipped past it, give her a listen, she's the first person after Mr. Brown opens up the discussion. She thinks that the post Heller laws are reasonable!?

    Mike, yourrestraint is far greater than mine. I would have been standing up yelling at her for being looney right off the bat. These people...they all seem to want the perks of an actual state, yet don't want to have to stick to the Constitution...anyhow, thanks for posting this video, after seeing these people I can only start seriously considering contacting my congressmen/senators and advising that they deny statehood to this bunch of...people, since they're clearly out of touch with reality.
    I believe it is Ms. Cheh. It's hilarious that she would even have the audacity to quote Patrick Henry when her intent is to strip citizens of their rights.

    It's nothing but a power grab.

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    why no semi auto shotguns? they are awesome for dove hunting......

    either way, the gun shoots the bullet, it doesnt matter what weapon it is, it will shoot the bullet. if they take guns away, people will build zip guns, i just dont think that they know enough about guns to really make a good case, if they knew about guns, they would realize they all do the same thing.

    edit- i love the way the room was silent when you told him that you want his kids to have the right to carry and own firearms. his points made no sense, the brady campaign was talking about common sense laws and mike, you have more common sense than every one of those people testifying in that room. i like how they say you basically slapped the people of D.C. in the face, when really all they did all night was slap you in the face.

    CARRY ON MIKE!

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Ok... Why should DC be allowed to regulate prostitution but not guns? Answer is simple: Prostitution is not a constitutionally protected right, gun ownership is.
    Took the words outta my mouth. And to Mr Mendelson, if I had the choice betweenyour ideas of safety& security, or my freedom, I'll take my freedom thank you.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    Mike, yourrestraint is far greater than mine. I would have been standing up yelling at her for being looney right off the bat.
    The calmness that Mike displayed--putting out the facts,sitting back to let the officials make fools of themselves with everything they said, and answering only direct questions with short, sensible answers--actually does far more to highlight anti-gunner'slooniness than being verbally confrontational with them.

    There is an old truism in the arena of public discussion/debate: if your opponents are falling down, simplystep back and get out of the way. I'm sure Mike realized how foolish those guys sounded to any reasonable person and he simplylet themtake themselves down instead of being verbally confrontational and going down with them in the eyes of sensible folks.

    Most of the time, letting fools be fools without dignifying their foolishness with a response is the most effective thing you can do.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    oilfieldtrash11 wrote:
    why no semi auto shotguns? they are awesome for dove hunting......
    Can you expand on this? Last time I hunted it was with my dad using a pump action 20 guage for hunting for pheasnats in PA.

    What states let you use semi-auto shotguns for hunting and for what game? Slugs for deer?

    And what sports use semi-auto shotguns?

    I will be following up my comments to the DC City Council with a memo as soon as I have some time.

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    oilfieldtrash11 wrote:
    why no semi auto shotguns? they are awesome for dove hunting......
    Can you expand on this? Last time I hunted it was with my dad using a pump action 20 guage for hunting for pheasants in PA.

    What states let you use semi-auto shotguns for hunting and for what game? Slugs for deer?

    And what sports use semi-auto shotguns?

    I will be following up my comments to the DC City Council with a memo as soon as I have some time.

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    Mike wrote:
    What states let you use semi-auto shotguns for hunting and for what game? Slugs for deer?

    And what sports use semi-auto shotguns?
    Kansas:
    http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hun...ng-Regulations

    Deer
    Legal shotgun for deer - 20 gauge or larger, using only slugs.
    Migratory birds:
    Bow and arrow, falconry, or shotgun no larger than 10-gauge. Shotguns shall not be able to hold more than three shells.
    Turkey:
    http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hun...al-Information
    Legal Equipment: Shotguns 20 gauge or larger using shot sizes 2-9; long, recurve or compound bows

    Sports:

    Trap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_shooting
    Semi-autos are popular due to the low recoil and versatility because they can be used for singles, handicap, and doubles
    Skeet:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeet_shooting
    Many shooters of American skeet and other national versions still use inexpensive semi-auto and pump action shot guns with great success
    Clays:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_clays
    Although the sport is challenging, it is quite popular with novice shooters and ordinary hunters. While many shooters opt for expensive double-barreled shotguns, the game is equally enjoyable with an inexpensive pump-action shotgun or autoloading (semiautomatic) shotgun.

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    Closer to D.C. here are VA's regulations off the DGIF site:

    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ns/general.asp

    • No restrictions on shot size except for spring gobbler season when it is unlawful to have any shot in possession larger than number 2 fine shot while hunting.
    • Shotguns must not be larger than 10 gauge.
    • Unplugged shotguns are legal for hunting non-migratory game.
    • Shotgun barrels must be at least 18 inches long.
    • Shotguns with rifled barrels are permitted in areas where slugs may be used.
    • All game birds and animals, except deer, may be hunted with shotguns from boats. Hunters must have permission from the landowner to hunt/ retrieve game located on private land.


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    OK, let's focus on the semi-auto shotghun issue - are semi-auto shotguns banned for hunting in many or most states? i need some kind of link proving semi-autos are generally legal to use in hunting.

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    http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/cu...alregs.asp#355

    §355. Ammunition Authorized for Taking Big Game and Nongame Birds and Nongame Mammals in Condor Range. In addition to those conditions provided for in sections 353 and 475, only centerfire rifle, centerfire pistol, muzzleloading, shotgun slug, and rimfire ammunition using projectiles certified pursuant to this section as containing no lead (as defined by subsection 353(h)) shall be used for the taking of big game and nongame birds and nongame mammals in condor range (see subsection 353(h)).





    http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/cu...egs.asp#300b1a

    §311. Methods Authorized for Taking Resident Small Game. Only the following may be used to take resident small game:
    (a) Shotguns 10 gauge or smaller using shot shells only and incapable of holding more than three shells in the magazine and chamber combined. If a plug is used to reduce the capacity of a magazine to fulfill the requirements of this section, the plug must be of one piece construction incapable of removal without disassembling the gun;
    (b) Shotgun shells may not be used or possessed that contain shot size larger than No. BB, except that shot size larger than No. 2 may not be used or possessed when taking wild turkey. All shot shall be loose in the shell.
    (c) Muzzle-loading shotguns;
    (d) Falconry;
    (e) Bow and arrow (see Section 354 for archery equipment regulations);
    (f) Air rifles firing pellets and powered by compressed air or gas (0.20 caliber minimum for taking wild turkey); and firearm rifles and pistols for taking rabbits and squirrels, except in Los Angeles County, in addition to the methods listed in (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e) above;
    (g) In San Diego and Orange counties only, rabbits may be taken at any time during the open season by means of box traps. Such traps shall not exceed 24 inches in any dimension, shall be tended at least once every 24 hours, and shall show the name and address of the trap owner. All rabbits taken under this section shall be immediately killed and become a part of the daily bag limit;
    it doesnt say anything against semi-auto shotguns, we have been stopped by DFG game wardens and they said nothing about semi-auto shotguns in our possession. They just checked to make sure that we had plugs in and made sure that it was plugged at 3 shells.

    we use semi-shotguns in trap and skeet tournaments out here on the west coast, most commonly the snipe shoot which is 30 clays in one minute. 2 shooters. 3 throwing stations, 30 clays are thrown at random and we have to load and shoot as many clays as a team as we can. that is one of the beneficial uses for a semi auto. we also use semi autos for ducks.

    The models are for example, Browning A5, Browning Gold, Remington 1187 which are all field guns.

    Remember that this is California where I live and hunt. California is very strict on all of its laws regarding firearms, maybe a point to throw in there.

    Another thing that is interesting, this is legal in California.
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ar-15-shotgun/

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    Is there anyway someone can upload this clip to youtube, and give a link for it. For some reason I can't seem to access this video. I would really appreciate it, plus it will get more coverage on the tube.

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    Mike, here are the regulations from my four-state area. None prohibit any otherwise-legal firearm, except for full auto, caliber restrictions, restrictions on shot size or bullet weight, or magazine capacity. A semi-auto shotgun is legal for all game.


    Texas: any legal firearm can be used for any game. Exceptions: no rimfire of any caliber for deer, sheep, or antelope; no silencers or machineguns; shotguns only for Spring Eastern Turkey season (no rifles or handguns); shotgun magazines must be plugged to 3 round capacity when hunting migratory game birds and lesser prairie chickens.

    http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...al/hunt/means/


    Arkansas:

    All modern guns may be used for deer hunting during modern gun season with the following exceptions. You may not use:
    • buckshot in a .410 shotgun.
    • shot smaller than No. 4 buckshot in any shotgun.
    • rimfire cartridges, military or full metal jacketed ammunition.
    • any centerfire rifle, pistol or revolver smaller than .22 caliber.
    • handguns with barrels shorter than 4 inches.

    http://www.agfc.com/!userfiles/pdfs/guidebooks/08-09Sections/08-09%20Guidebook_pg22-30hunting_regs.pdf


    Oklahoma:

    Legal Means of Taking
    Rifles: Centerfire rifles firing at least a 55-grain weight soft-nosed or hollow-point bullet and having an overall cartridge case length of 1 1/4 inches or longer (9mm rifles are not legal). Clips or magazines of all .22 caliber centerfire firearms may not be capable of holding more than seven (7) rounds of ammunition.
    Muzzleloaders: Equipment described as legal for deer muzzleloader season and blackpowder firearms loaded from the breech are legal.
    Shotguns: 20 gauge or larger, firing a single rifled slug are legal.
    Centerfire handguns: Chambered for .24 caliber or larger and 100 grain or heavier soft-
    nosed bullet having an overall cartridge case length of 1 1/4 inches or longer are legal (.357 or larger) and a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches.
    Semi-automatic handguns: Chambered for any centerfire ammunition with a 100-grain or
    heavier soft-nosed bullet and having a cartridge case size of .40 caliber or larger (includes 10 mm, .357 Sig., and 40 cal. or larger) and a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches.
    Handguns chambered for any centerfire rifle ammunition: Chambered for any centerfire
    rifle ammunition using at least a 55-grain soft-nosed bullet and having an overall cartridge case length of 1 1/4 inches or longer and a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches.
    Illegal devices: Fully automatic firearms, silencers, laser sights and light enhancement
    devices (night scopes) are illegal.

    http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/regs/2008huntregs.pdf


    Louisiana:

    It is illegal to hunt or shoot deer with firearms smaller than .22 caliber center-fire or a shotgun loaded with anything other than buckshot or rifled slug. Handguns may be used for hunting.

    RESTRICTIONS:No person shall take migratory game birds:
    • with a trap, snare, net, rifle, pistol, swivel guns, shotgun larger than 10-gauge, punt gun, battery gun, machine gun, fishhook, poison, drug, explosive or stupefying substance.
    • with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler which is incapable of removal without dissembling the gun.


    http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/pdfs/hu...-2009_HRDH.pdf

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    Mike.

    It might be easier to list the states that do not allow semi-auto shotgun hunting. IMO it will be none except Hawaii.


    Might perhaps kick this question up the ladder to the general discussion threads?

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    I tried listening to the 1st 10 minutes of this meeting and I lost it. The members of this council do not know what the US Constitution is, or what theBill Of Rights is/ They have no concept of what the United States ofAmerica is. They do not deserve to be a part of this society. They are a disgrace to everything this country stands for and should be banished.

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