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Thread: OC getting in and out of the car.

  1. #1
    Regular Member JOESEEB's Avatar
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    I have OC'ed a few times recently in which I never got in to a car as I'm not clear on the rules. i know that you can not carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle so this means unloading when you getin and reloading when you get out. As I carry with a round in the chamber this means dropping the mag, upholstering and ejecting the round. meaning that you must DRAW the firearm, but wont that make people nervous? cops get called? how do you go about this with out people freaking out? can you sit in the car and unload out of sight or is that considered carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle?

    my dad told me once that if you dont have one in the chamber you might as well not carry. as it is a danger to you and those around you. this requires you to jack a round in before you can fire so its pointless for defencive purposes.

    my second question is where do you put the firearm while your driving? keep it in the holster (unloaded), in the seat next to you? in the trunk(then you have to open trunk and remove it every time you get in and out of the car)(this also make you have to load and unload in visible sight to anyone around you)?

    I want to carry but I dint want the cops to get called cus im Brandishing a weapon. I have lived in wash. for 4 years but only recently got asidearm so im not clear on the rules. in Oregon you must put the weapon in aclosed containerand so it is not readily available, but what about wash.

    I have read Washington state law but as far as i can tell it just says no loaded firearms in cars without a CPL. It is my assumption (i know all about assumptions thats why i ask) that as long as it is not loaded ( the mag out and chamber empty) that it can still be on your hip in its holster. is this assumption wrong or just not wise?


    Thanks in advance for all the advice.
    Ad maiorem Dei gloriam Ducimus Doctrinas bello aptare n umbra, igitur, pugnabimus Citius, altius, fortius Pro patria Semper paratus Semper fidelis. Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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    This is exactly why I have a CPL, no worries. Read the RCW carefully - you need to "put the RCW's together" to come to a complete and accurate answer. Study the RCWs and ensure you always know your rights.

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    Ganghater wrote:
    This is exactly why I have a CPL, no worries. Read the RCW carefully - you need to "put the RCW's together" to come to a complete and accurate answer. Study the RCWs and ensure you always know your rights.
    +1

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    PolskiG wrote:
    Ganghater wrote:
    This is exactly why I have a CPL, no worries. Read the RCW carefully - you need to "put the RCW's together" to come to a complete and accurate answer. Study the RCWs and ensure you always know your rights.
    +1
    +1

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    Nosrac wrote:
    PolskiG wrote:
    Ganghater wrote:
    This is exactly why I have a CPL, no worries.* Read the RCW carefully - you need to "put the RCW's together" to come to a complete and accurate answer.* Study the RCWs and ensure you always know your rights.
    +1
    +1
    +1 = +3
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    This is the main reason why I got my cpl too. Although I am against buying a license to partake in a constitutional right But what I have done is wear a serpa type holster where I can eject and remove the magazine discreetly behind my car door, you can also rack the gun too. People don't realize what you are doing.

    Don't let not having a cpl stop you in exercising your rights just arm yourself discreetly I have not had a problem the last 4 months that I have carried.

    Also if need be carrying one in the chamber with one rack of the slide away is better than not carrying at all. It might not be ideal but it still is better than nothing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.
    Ok I am probably gonna sound like a newb here but can you explain bullet set back?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.
    Ok I am probably gonna sound like a newb here but can you explain bullet set back?
    When the slide slams forward while chambering the round it can push the bullet farther into the case. After a while, the bullet can even be noticeable shorter than the rest of them. The danger is that when the bullet is set deeper, the pressure can rise to dangerous levels. Then, when you fire the gun (in either a defensive situation or just at the range) the gun can explode. This is even more critical in a high pressure round like the .40 cal.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Very good info to know thanks.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.
    Ok I am probably gonna sound like a newb here but can you explain bullet set back?
    When a round gets fed from the mag, the bullet strikes the feed ramp on the way into the chamber. Doing this once or twice isn't a big deal, but doing it a bunch of times can push the bullet back into the chamber, reducing the effective volume of the case and dramatically increasing the pressure of the round when it's fired.

    I've found one of the easiest ways to get around this is the lock the slide open, secure the pistol in the holster (Serpa is great for this), place the bullet in the chamber, release the slide or pull it back to release it, then insert a loaded magazine. I do this with my Glock when I load or unload for any reason; that way, the trigger is covered while chambering the round.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.
    Ok I am probably gonna sound like a newb here but can you explain bullet set back?
    When a round gets fed from the mag, the bullet strikes the feed ramp on the way into the chamber. Doing this once or twice isn't a big deal, but doing it a bunch of times can push the bullet back into the chamber, reducing the effective volume of the case and dramatically increasing the pressure of the round when it's fired.

    I've found one of the easiest ways to get around this is the lock the slide open, secure the pistol in the holster (Serpa is great for this), place the bullet in the chamber, release the slide or pull it back to release it, then insert a loaded magazine. I do this with my Glock when I load or unload for any reason; that way, the trigger is covered while chambering the round.
    I've heard that's hard on the extractor.

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    I was thinking the same thing...it's a bit of a surprise when the extractor breaks off.

    To the OP, I usually have a towell, a coat or a sports bag on the passenger seat and I would just use that for cover while loading or unloading.




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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    I've heard that's hard on the extractor.
    Can't be any harder on it than just chambering a round. Plus, I'd rather have an extractor break and replace it than to have a kB! and have my hand break... much harder to find spare parts for that; I don't think I can even get those at Numrich's. :P
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I've heard that's hard on the extractor.
    Can't be any harder on it than just chambering a round. Plus, I'd rather have an extractor break and replace it than to have a kB! and have my hand break... much harder to find spare parts for that; I don't think I can even get those at Numrich's. :P
    Well, much harder actually. In an auto-pistol the rim of the case slides up under the extractor when the round is chambered normally. When you drop the slide over the chambered round, it forces the extractor over the rim of the case.

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    Regular Member JOESEEB's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    I would be VERY careful about bullet set-back if you're chambering and unchambering the same round over and over- especially if it's a .40 cal.
    I do use the same round but i never let the slide slam forward on it as i place the round in the chamber then gently let the slide down on it. so i dont think this is a problem. then once the round is in insert the mag. the sound of the slide slamming forward scares my wife so igently close the slide. plusitsalmost completely quiet this way. the maggoing in is louder ten the slide closing.im using a da .45 ruger p90 which is designed to use high pressure rounds.

    I do intend to get my CHP in-fact was suppose to apply this week but due to money probs could not afford to. i appreciate all the helpful info that all of you have provided. thank you all very much i think i will try the towel idea for concealing loading and unloading from sight.

    any one on go anything on location of firearm while driving or riding as a passenger? other then putting it in the trunk ina box? can it be on my side unloaded or does it have to be off of my person?
    Ad maiorem Dei gloriam Ducimus Doctrinas bello aptare n umbra, igitur, pugnabimus Citius, altius, fortius Pro patria Semper paratus Semper fidelis. Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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    On a side note a Glock is designed to take that extra pressure caused by set back and force it down the mag well to save the pistol.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Be careful about concealing a gun with a towel if you do not have a license to do so.

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    Regular Member JOESEEB's Avatar
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    carhark wrote:
    Be careful about concealing a gun with a towel if you do not have a license to do so.
    I meant blocking view form one side not really concealing it just making it less obvious. i would be very careful.
    Ad maiorem Dei gloriam Ducimus Doctrinas bello aptare n umbra, igitur, pugnabimus Citius, altius, fortius Pro patria Semper paratus Semper fidelis. Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Here's the way the codes work together for vehicle carry without a CPL:
    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.

    (a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
    You have to comply with the above at all times, whether your gun is loaded or unloaded. If you have your unloaded firearm in a holster, on your side, in the vehicle, it probably is not going to be readily visible from the outside and considered concealed. The way to meet this law is to not have the firearm on your person in your vehicle. You may conceal the gun in your vehicle, so long as it is not on your person (IE: readily accessible), or you may have your gun in the vehicle in the open, such as on the seat next to you, in plain sight.
    I disagree with this part - It says "concealed on your person" not "unable to be seen while near you." By the interpretation presented, if you're leaning on a wall that makes it so a person can't see your gun, it's now concealed on your person. If a person walks weak side of you, it's concealed on your person. Clearly, neither of those cases actually constitute "concealed on your person."

    This is why the law differentiates for vehicles, specifying no loaded pistols are allowed in vehicles without CPL. Without that separate piece of statute, one could OC a loaded all the time without a CPL, as the pistol is not concealed on your person, merely concealed by circumstances of your location.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member JOESEEB's Avatar
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    Tawnos wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    Here's the way the codes work together for vehicle carry without a CPL:
    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.

    (a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
    You have to comply with the above at all times, whether your gun is loaded or unloaded. If you have your unloaded firearm in a holster, on your side, in the vehicle, it probably is not going to be readily visible from the outside and considered concealed. The way to meet this law is to not have the firearm on your person in your vehicle. You may conceal the gun in your vehicle, so long as it is not on your person (IE: readily accessible), or you may have your gun in the vehicle in the open, such as on the seat next to you, in plain sight.
    I disagree with this part - It says "concealed on your person" not "unable to be seen while near you." By the interpretation presented, if you're leaning on a wall that makes it so a person can't see your gun, it's now concealed on your person. If a person walks weak side of you, it's concealed on your person. Clearly, neither of those cases actually constitute "concealed on your person."

    This is why the law differentiates for vehicles, specifying no loaded pistols are allowed in vehicles without CPL. Without that separate piece of statute, one could OC a loaded all the time without a CPL, as the pistol is not concealed on your person, merely concealed by circumstances of your location.
    This is what i was thinking, but though i should get more opinions before doing so. i have read the laws several times (and i carrya copy in my wallet)before i even madethe post, but i was unclear as to there meaning, thus the reason i posted this question. I didn't want to assume that i knew that law with out getting a consensus from other LAC's.

    so as long as it is unloaded and capable of being seen while on my person or not then there is no reason why i have to place it in the trunk. and when i leave it in the car it has to be concealed with the doors locked until i return to the car at which point it must be unconcealed.

    well I think I understand it now. I just don't understand all the mumbo jumbo that the law makers use. why cant they just put it in plain English?
    Ad maiorem Dei gloriam Ducimus Doctrinas bello aptare n umbra, igitur, pugnabimus Citius, altius, fortius Pro patria Semper paratus Semper fidelis. Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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    NavyLT wrote:
    so as long as it is unloaded and capable of being seen while on my person or not then there is no reason why i have to place it in the trunk. and when i leave it in the car it has to be concealed with the doors locked until i return to the car at which point it must be unconcealed.
    Almost. If the unloaded gun is on your person, it must be readily observable, in or out of your vehicle, which will be the objective opinion of the police you are dealing with. If the unloaded firearm is not on your person, in the vehicle, you may have that gun either in plain sight in the vehicle OR concealed anywhere in that vehicle that is not on your person. ONLY BOTH concealed AND on your person at the sametime is illegal.

    Yes, when you leave the vehicle and the gun is left in the vehicle, then it MUST be concealed and at least the vehicle locked.
    Not sure what you mean by readily observable, above. Do you mean from any opening or window? Because that's a higher standard than when OCing in public, in that there are many times you can be OCing and not readily observable - at a restaurant while seated, for example.

    I think concealed on your person means attached to you (on your person)/being held by you and concealed by something that you are wearing/the thing you are holding. This encompasses scenarios such as a backpack, fanny pack, jacket, pants, et cetera. Though this requires a jury of your peers inquiry for clarification, I think saying that "he concealed his gun because I couldn't see it from where I was standing" doesn't meet the definition.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    The law pertaining to where a pistol is to be in a car is vague at best. That's why it's best to get a CPL and avoid the hassle. But being as vague as it is, it's clear to see that you could technically have the pistol anywhere you wanted as long as it was unloaded and you were physically in the car.

    My common sense approach to this would be, if I can walk around your vehicle and not see your gun through any of the windows, it's concealed. Then, if the gun is attached to your body, so that the gun moves with you when you move, then it is on the person. But we are talking cops here, not common sense. Unfortunately, there is no definition of concealed or on the person in that section of RCW's.
    So are you saying gun owners who legally transport their firearms in their trunk are concealing their firearms? The laws aren't intended to be viewed that way. A person (at least in the way RCW is meant to be read) means a physical being; your body. Your car is not a part of your body.

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    Apologies. I misunderstood what you were trying to say!

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