OC getting in and out of the car.

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Tawnos wrote:

NavyLT wrote:

Here's the way the codes work together for vehicle carry without a CPL:

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

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You have to comply with the above at all times, whether your gun is loaded or unloaded. If you have your unloaded firearm in a holster, on your side, in the vehicle, it probably is not going to be readily visible from the outside and considered concealed. The way to meet this law is to not have the firearm on your person in your vehicle. You may conceal the gun in your vehicle, so long as it is not on your person (IE: readily accessible), or you may have your gun in the vehicle in the open, such as on the seat next to you, in plain sight.

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I disagree with this part - It says "concealed on your person" not "unable to be seen while near you." By the interpretation presented, if you're leaning on a wall that makes it so a person can't see your gun, it's now concealed on your person. If a person walks weak side of you, it's concealed on your person. Clearly, neither of those cases actually constitute "concealed on your person."

This is why the law differentiates for vehicles, specifying no loaded pistols are allowed in vehicles without CPL. Without that separate piece of statute, one could OC a loaded all the time without a CPL, as the pistol is not concealed on your person, merely concealed by circumstances of your location.

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This is what i was thinking, but though i should get more opinions before doing so. i have read the laws several times (and i carrya copy in my wallet)before i even madethe post, but i was unclear as to there meaning, thus the reason i posted this question. I didn't want to assume that i knew that law with out getting a consensus from other LAC's.

so as long as it is unloaded and capable of being seen while on my person or not then there is no reason why i have to place it in the trunk. and when i leave it in the car it has to be concealed with the doors locked until i return to the car at which point it must be unconcealed.

well I think I understand it now. I just don't understand all the mumbo jumbo that the law makers use. why cant they just put it in plain English?

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NavyLT wrote:

so as long as it is unloaded and capable of being seen while on my person or not then there is no reason why i have to place it in the trunk. and when i leave it in the car it has to be concealed with the doors locked until i return to the car at which point it must be unconcealed.

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Almost. If the unloaded gun is on your person, it must be readily observable, in or out of your vehicle, which will be the objective opinion of the police you are dealing with. If the unloaded firearm is not on your person, in the vehicle, you may have that gun either in plain sight in the vehicle OR concealed anywhere in that vehicle that is not on your person. ONLY BOTH concealed AND on your person at the sametime is illegal.

Yes, when you leave the vehicle and the gun is left in the vehicle, then it MUST be concealed and at least the vehicle locked.

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Not sure what you mean by readily observable, above. Do you mean from any opening or window? Because that's a higher standard than when OCing in public, in that there are many times you can be OCing and not readily observable - at a restaurant while seated, for example.

I think concealed on your person means attached to you (on your person)/being held by you and concealed by something that you are wearing/the thing you are holding. This encompasses scenarios such as a backpack, fanny pack, jacket, pants, et cetera. Though this requires a jury of your peers inquiry for clarification, I think saying that "he concealed his gun because I couldn't see it from where I was standing" doesn't meet the definition.

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The law pertaining to where a pistol is to be in a car is vague at best. That's why it's best to get a CPL and avoid the hassle. But being as vague as it is, it's clear to see that you could technically have the pistol anywhere you wanted as long as it was unloaded and you were physically in the car.

My common sense approach to this would be, if I can walk around your vehicle and not see your gun through any of the windows, it's concealed. Then, if the gun is attached to your body, so that the gun moves with you when you move, then it is on the person. But we are talking cops here, not common sense. Unfortunately, there is no definition of concealed or on the person in that section of RCW's.

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So are you saying gun owners who legally transport their firearms in their trunk are concealing their firearms? The laws aren't intended to be viewed that way. A person (at least in the way RCW is meant to be read) means a physical being; your body. Your car is not a part of your body.

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Apologies. I misunderstood what you were trying to say!