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Thread: ABC 20/20 Show on Guns Tonight at 10 PM Eastern

  1. #1
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    I saw a small Preview from the show on Good Morning America and it seems like it will be a very anti-gun biased show.

    They let a guy who had watched a lot of action movies, who had never had a gun and who had absolutely no training first shoot at a target with tiny blue ink bullets and later he was told to sit in a class on safety equipment with his Adapted Glock concealed under his t-shirt and of course being a person who has never carried before, he is ofcourse hyper-concious about his gun andconstantlypulling onhis t-shirt so to make sure that it is concealed and makes it obvious to people that he is carrying.

    Then somebody, don't remember who but I think it was the teacher starts shooting with another adapted Glock and the guy without any firearms knowledge except for action movies is supposed to protect his and his classmates lives with his own Glock as he is the only one in the class who is carrying and the class is made up by cops and ABC staff to make it look like a regular class which is stated by 20/20.

    I was wondering how it would be if theytook a person who was a firearms owner, who had concealed carry training and was used to concealed carrying in the same situation instead of a person who only had gun training and knew about guns from action movies which is ofcourse not reality.

    They also showed a video about kids who were playing with their parents guns without the parents knowing about it.

    One youth was interviewed and stated that his friend had a gun laying on the ground behind his door and his parents never knew about it for instance.

    Sounds like the anti-gun movement is trying to takesome of the points that the pro-gun movement has made and is trying to skew it to make their own point look like the right one but I think we all know how the anti-gun movement works.

    I wonder if writing letters to 20/20 would even be worth it at all.

    I created this thread so we could discuss our thoughts about the show before, while and after it has run.

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    ABC News has an article in conjunction with this story on their website as well.

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7298996&page=1

    The slant is definitely anti-gun. The LEO they are interviewing likens those who think they should be able to carry guns for precisely this reason are caught up in video game worlds where there isn't any stress, and there isn't any responsibility for collateral damage. No poll that I noticed however.
    The Dogs of War are nothing compared to the Cats

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    Kivuli wrote:
    ABC News has an article in conjunction with this story on their website as well.

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7298996&page=1

    The slant is definitely anti-gun. The LEO they are interviewing likens those who think they should be able to carry guns for precisely this reason are caught up in video game worlds where there isn't any stress, and there isn't any responsibility for collateral damage. No poll that I noticed however.
    Thanks Kivuli, the video on that page is the preview I was talking about.

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    The kids finding guns part is 10 yrs old. If you want to have some fun, read the comments. There are some ticked off people already posting. Hope they get the message. If you're uncomfortable carrying a gun then don't. But don't try to force your comfort level onto me and jeapordize my safety for it.

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    I haven't seen any discussion of this on the Washington forum . . .

    Tonight on 20/20, Diane Sawyer is the lead on a special "If Only I Had a Gun." I just watched the preview on GMA, and as expected from Sawyer it is heavily slanted toward anti-gun.

    They do a simulation in a college classroom -- give a kid with some Airsoft experience a Glock with simunitions. No practice at drawing from concealment apparently. He is sitting in the front row of the classroom when a gunman barges through the door and starts shooting. He gets shot immediately (obvious the gunman knew where he was sitting).

    This is going to be a hard one to watch. I intend to record it, as I don't think I can watch it all in one sitting without my head exploding.

    I think we should be prepared to send ABC and KOMO a clear and unified message that if they are going to promote this kind of propoganda, rather than a balanced news story, that they will permanently lose us as viewers.

    Charles

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Diane Sawyer is blatantly editorializing just with her facial expressions. I can tell where this news story is going just by watching the first few seconds of it.

    The morale of the story is that absolutely no one, but law enforcement is qualified with pistols. The morale of the story is that no one can protect themselves or others in a defensive situation.

    The point of the story is to scare people into not wanting to defend themselves or others and to try to soften the American People up for more gun control. Another point that this story is trying to make is for the viewing audience to be skeptical and have zero confidence in conceal handgun permit holders.

    You guys watch this story and tell me if I'm not absolutely right.


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story...745&page=1

    This article is huge. To much to cut and paste, but I will try. ABC has an agenda. The anti-gunners have their sights on Virgnia.


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    So ABC gave the guy the money, and the police ended up with the guns. Sounds like a straw purchase to me... ;-/

    -ljp

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    The two-year anniversary of Virginia Tech, the largest massacre by a sole gunman in the country's history, is only one week away.

    In the two years since, what has changed, what has been fixed, and what has stayed exactly the same?

    Immediately following the tragedy, Virginia Governor Tim Kaine and other authorities called on lawmakers to close the so called "gun show loophole" -- by which anyone can buy a gun from a private dealer with no background check and no questions asked. Two years later, that loophole is still very much open, in Virginia and 32 other states around the country.

    So just how easy is it to buy a gun at a gun show?

    The Challenge: To Buy a Gun in One Hour
    For over a year, ABC News has followed Omar Samaha on a very personal quest to hold those lawmakers to their word. Omar's sister Reema was one of 32 shot and killed at Virginia Tech. We went with Omar to a gun show in Richmond, Va. -- one of hundreds held every weekend across the state of Virginia and the country. We gave Samaha $5,000 and one hour to see how many guns he could buy, and how many questions he would be asked.



    CLICK HERE TO HELP OMAR SAMAHA FIGHT GUN VIOLENCE.

    By 9:30 in the morning, the parking lot was already packed full of cars. Groups of men, couples and even families with children in tow streamed toward the quickly growing line out front. Samaha, 25, joined the crowds and while waiting on line, he was approached by a seller and given the opportunity to make a quick purchase. He bought a Glock handgun, with no background check, and no questions asked.

    "He was just sitting right outside the door, I went up to him. 'How much do you want for it?'

    "'$450 bucks.'

    'Here's the cash.'

    'Thanks. See you later.'

    That was it."

    For Samaha, the Glock handgun was a particularly painful purchase. It was the same kind of gun used to kill his sister Reema when she was a freshman at Virginia Tech. Just holding the gun in his hand was difficult.

    "I don't want to think about how gruesome it was and how somebody used this type of weapon on my sister and so many other innocent people. It's devastating," he said.

    Buying Guns: No Background Check Required
    Samaha walked back into the gun show, and within minutes he was out again, this time carrying a Colt AR 15, a semi-automatic assault weapon very similar to an M16. We asked if there were any questions asked.

    "Nothing," he said. "I just went up, gave him cash. He's like, 'Cash is all you need.'"

    Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, one handgun. He could have purchased many more handguns, but he wanted to abide by Virginia State law, which allows the purchase of one handgun per month, and two assault weapons.

    Samaha was never asked to fill out any type of background check. At one point he was asked to show identification. When Samaha said he didn't have any, the seller quickly relented, not wanting to lose a sale.

    "He's like, 'Give me $100 more and I'll let you go and take the risk.' I got two guns for $600 without any identification check," Samaha said.

    Lobbying Lawmakers
    Not only did Samaha buy 10 guns in one hour with incredible ease and no questions, he could have turned around and sold those same guns right in the parking lot. In fact, while standing next to his trunk full of guns, Omar was approached by a man who thought he was a seller. Omar knew the gun show loophole existed, but he was still shocked by how easy it was for him to buy guns with no questions asked.

    "Anybody can do it," Samaha said. "And it's for real. It's that easy. Anyone. Someone who's adjudicated mentally ill, someone who's a known felon. Someone who has a history of crime. I think people don't realize how easy it really is."

    In fact, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reports in their investigations that private sellers at gun shows are a major source of gun crime in the country. In the two years since Reema's death, Samaha has fought hard to get the loophole closed in his home state of Virginia.

    He has lobbied lawmakers, spoken publicly about his sister and even launched an online campaign about the dangers of guns on campus. A law to close the gun show loophole has come up twice in the Virginia State legislature, and twice the body has voted against the bill, even though it was one of the key recommendations to come out of Kaine's Virginia Tech Review Panel.

    When Virginia lawmakers voted against closing the loophole, Samaha was shocked. "It really made me wonder what kind of people we have making our laws," he said.

    Among those who voted twice against closing the gun show loophole is state John S. Edwards, a Virginia Democrat who represents the district that includes Virginia Tech. After repeated attempts to reach Edwards, the state senator did not respond to calls from ABC News

    Gun rights groups don't want to see the loophole closed because they fear that background checks will hurt business at gun shows, and also threaten privacy rights. They also argue that the Virginia Tech shooter didn't buy his gun at a gun show. Seung Hui Cho bought his gun legally at a gun store even though he had a documented history of mental illness. That breakdown in the system was addressed immediately following Virginia Tech, but families of the victims argue that with the gun show loophole still open, it is just too easy to buy a gun with no questions asked.

    For Samaha, it's not about the right to own a gun, it's about how easy it is for guns to end up in the wrong hands.

    "We're not trying to keep guns out of the hands of good citizens. If you can pass a background check, which anyone can do in a matter of minutes, then you can buy guns," he said.



    'None of Them Could Have Stopped Him'
    Former ATF agent Gerald Nunziato was with Samaha at the gun show in Richmond, Va. With years of experience fighting gangs and drug organizations, Nunziato was all too familiar with the guns that Samaha bought.

    "My experience as an agent in Detroit and Miami is that these guns [shotguns] would be sawed off at the barrel," he said. "They're a very high-powered scatter gun that's used a lot by drug gang members 'cause they're easy to get in and out of your car."

    Even though Samaha immediately turned in all the weapons he bought at the gun show to the Richmond Police Department, Nunziato pointed out that if Samaha had wanted to, he could have caused a lot of damage with the guns he purchased.

    "There were three or four police cars in the parking lot [at the gun show]. None of them could have stopped him [Samaha] with the firepower he bought," said Nunziato.

    For Samaha, it's all about honoring his sister Reema's memory and working to prevent another tragedy from happening again.

    "I think I'm doing something she would do," he said. "I think she would be proud of me and tell me to keep going."

    HOW TO HELP:

    Angel Fund: The Angel Fund web site honors the memory of Reema Samaha and explores those issues that contributed to the tragedy at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007.
    E-mail: contactus@angelfundva.org


    Students for Gun Free Schools: Omar launched an online campaign about the dangers of guns on campus.
    E-mail: Info@StudentsforGunFreeSchools.org

    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    In fact, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reports in their investigations that private sellers at gun shows are a major source of gun crime in the country. In the two years since Reema's death, Samaha has fought hard to get the loophole closed in his home state of Virginia.




    That's a lie!



    It's also suspect that people at the gun show said those outragous things. I don't believe him. I was at that show. I wouldn't sell to someone because the didn't have a CHP. I want id and a Va. CHP.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    I'm going to try and catch this one. I did like this 20/20 take on gun laws.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

  12. #12
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    Not only are they blatantly anti-gun, but at least KOMO can't be bothered to verify spelling or facts before printing them. I've written them off as a hack "news" agency and refuse to patronize their broadcasts or their website. King5 has been my go-to website since they published the story on the BBQ we had last month.

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    turbodog wrote:
    I'm going to try and catch this one. I did like this 20/20 take on gun laws.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ
    Whaaaaaaat? you mean having guns doesn't make people rabid wanton killers? /sarcasm off/

    Very well done, this was quite possibly one of the best articles I have seen. It was to the point, had factual data to back it up and put a face on the "victims" who fought back.

    Too bad most anti-gunners were too busy either protesting something somewhere or playing guitar heroto watch it....
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

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    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA

    Watch this video from Dian Sawyer. I have one comment please leave the studies to the experts and stop being a moron when it comes to guns.

    This is sad because the majority of americans are going to eat this up as 100% truth. When in reality it couldn't be farther from the truth about guns in classes.

    Things they didn't admit in the video:

    The active shooter knew there was an armed person in that class therefore of course hes going to immediately target that person first. This is by NO means a real world senario. Second the COPS/ Actors in the class know whats going to happen. I have a feeling that if a guy walked into a classroom and started shooting most people would freeze. They are still in the Obeserve phase in the OODA loop and this is something completly new to them. Most people may never even make to the ORIENT phase. Therefore the people screaming diving across tables, probably won't occur.

    Oo yeah another thing I'm sure most CCW holders decide to sit directly in front of the class in the very first row, with distance created nor have checked the room for a possible escape route.

    This is just another example of a news media PUSHING their OWN agenda.



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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I saw this piece. It was really bad "journalism". It is partof the growing media"chatter" that guns are bad, you don't want guns. I predict the media chatterwill peak next week on the VT shooting second anniversary.

    We have to be ready to respond. For example 2A= Second Anniversary and Second Amendment.





    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    There is a rather sneaky litttle insulot in the title "if I only had a gun", to wit, the Scarecrow (in "The Wizard of OZ") theme "if I only had a brain" This works on several levels, mostly subliminal:

    (1) The Scarecrow (and by extention gun owners) had no brain.

    (2)The Scarecrow wanted a brain, but he never got one, seeing that what he had was adequate for the task. By extention, people who think a gun will make them safer already have all the safety they need, courtesy of The Authorities

    (3) Lots more..........

    I was gonna make up a parody of the Scarecrow song (and I am quite talented at that) but not enuf time. I'll put it up on my blog instead, PM me for the address if you want it. Hey I wonder if they're gonna have a Wayne LaPierre look-alike dancing to ocarina music? That would be worth a pay per view.

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    T Dubya wrote:
    Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, one handgun.
    Three plus four plus one equals ten? I wonder if this reflects the accuracy of the rest of the article.

    Where's the audio and video of these transactions? They send an avowed anti-gun activist into a gun show with cash, and simply take his word for it how the deals transpired?

    And what's with this, in the story copy, blatantly suggesting readers join the effort?

    CLICK HERE TO HELP OMAR SAMAHA FIGHT GUN VIOLENCE.


  18. #18
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    OMG? They found the loophole?!?!?! :what:

    Sheesh... Do they not realize that you can do the same damn thing...

    * at your home.
    * at McDonalds.
    * at (insert any event or location here)

    Maybe we chould fight to close the dihydrogen monoxide loophole. You can get that crap ANYWHERE! :shock:

    Sometimes even for free! :celebrate
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Yep, you sure could do it at my house. (McDonald's)

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    OMG? They found the loophole?!?!?! :what:

    Sheesh... Do they not realize that you can do the same damn thing...

    * at your home.
    * at McDonalds.
    * at (insert any event or location here)

    Maybe we chould fight to close the dihydrogen monoxide loophole. You can get that crap ANYWHERE! :shock:

    Sometimes even for free! :celebrate
    You should just ban this evil dihydrogen monoxide alltogether! Just think of all people who lost their lives to it! Think of all these children that drowned - just think of the cheeeeeldreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!!!!

  21. #21
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    That 20/20 episode needs a whole farkton more Stossel.

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    On the flip side, it would be cool as hell to do the FOF drill they did in the video. My first instinct, I think, would be to duck. Then I'd draw and start searching for safe exits based on my knowledge of the classroom and the direction I hear the shots coming from. I don't think I'd actually try to engage the gunman unless there were no safe ways out and I could hear him getting close enough to comprimise my concealment/cover. And then I'd do what I could to wait for what sounded like a reload (although after all the shots in such a confined space it might not be possible to hear).

    What do you think/hope you would do?

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    bugly wrote:
    turbodog wrote:
    I'm going to try and catch this one. I did like this 20/20 take on gun laws.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ
    Whaaaaaaat? you mean having guns doesn't make people rabid wanton killers? /sarcasm off/

    Very well done, this was quite possibly one of the best articles I have seen. It was to the point, had factual data to back it up and put a face on the "victims" who fought back.

    Too bad most anti-gunners were too busy either protesting something somewhere or playing guitar heroto watch it....
    Hey... My kid plays guitar hero - he also shoots VERY well...

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    KBCraig wrote:
    T Dubya wrote:
    Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, one handgun.
    Three plus four plus one equals ten? I wonder if this reflects the accuracy of the rest of the article.

    Where's the audio and video of these transactions? They send an avowed anti-gun activist into a gun show with cash, and simply take his word for it how the deals transpired?

    And what's with this, in the story copy, blatantly suggesting readers join the effort?

    CLICK HERE TO HELP OMAR SAMAHA FIGHT GUN VIOLENCE.

    I thought the same thing too at first glance. It's actually poor grammar/editing that caused the confusion.


    Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, one handgun. He could have purchased many more handguns, but he wanted to abide by Virginia State law, which allows the purchase of one handgun per month, and two assault weapons.
    Should read something like:

    Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, two assault weapons, and one handgun. He could have purchased many more handguns, but he wanted to abide by Virginia State law, which only allows the purchase of one handgun per month.
    (Note I merely edited the existing text without correcting the false terminology used)


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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Where is it?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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