I might need your help

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To everyone and anyone. A long story made short. On Sunday April 9Th 2009 I arrived at work to discover the back door wide open. I quickly went for my cell phone to call 911. You guessed it, not in the Jeep. I checked the other four businesses, all closed. A pay phone was available a quarter mile away. I decided to enter the store, my pistol holstered at my side, not drawn. Fortunately it was only an employee smoking. End of story? NO! A customer heard a conversation about it and called the home office and complained about my having a pistol. I am now under suspension and will probably be fired for having a weapon on company property. IfI get fired I plan to sue as is my right, for wrongful dismissal. I will need a good attorney familiar with firearms law, self defence law and labor law. Or a combination of the three. Any suggestions? I live in Connecticut. I have not contacted legal aid as I'm guessing as soon as I say the word gun or gun rights I'll get the runaround.

Bill

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I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. But...

If you violated company policy by having a firearm on premises, I don't see where your lawsuit will go anywhere. Private property rights trump your right to carry, even if licensed, every time.

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hp-hobo wrote:

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. But...

If you violated company policy by having a firearm on premises, I don't see where your lawsuit will go anywhere. Private property rights trump your right to carry, even if licensed, every time.

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Yeah, this.

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http://www.ralphdsherman.com/

Try this Guy in CT. Good luck keep us posted.

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PRO2ND wrote:

http://www.ralphdsherman.com/

Try this Guy in CT. Good luck keep us posted.

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At Will
At Will: In the majority of states, employees not working under an employment contract are deemed to be "at will." Connecticut is an at-will-employment state. At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal.

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Aran wrote:

PRO2ND wrote:

http://www.ralphdsherman.com/

Try this Guy in CT. Good luck keep us posted.

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At Will
At Will: In the majority of states, employees not working under an employment contract are deemed to be "at will." Connecticut is an at-will-employment state. At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal.

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Not to the mention the fact thatin CT it is illegal tocarry in any place that expressly prohibits firearms.

I think you're SOL and wouldn't waste the money on a lawyer. It may not be right, but it's how it is.

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If you were notphysically observed on the property with a firearm, or on any surveylence camera, and did not of your own omission tell a company official(someone of authority) that you had a firearm within the boundarys of company property, Then I'd say it's hearsay, someone must have it out for me would be my defense!!

And next time, If you aren't responsible for the security of the property in or around the premises, Don't try to be a hero!!

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modelo57 wrote:

To everyone and anyone. A long story made short. On Sunday April 9Th 2009 I arrived at work to discover the back door wide open. I quickly went for my cell phone to call 911. You guessed it, not in the Jeep. I checked the other four businesses, all closed. A pay phone was available a quarter mile away. I decided to enter the store, my pistol holstered at my side, not drawn. Fortunately it was only an employee smoking. End of story? NO! A customer heard a conversation about it and called the home office and complained about my having a pistol. I am now under suspension and will probably be fired for having a weapon on company property. IfI get fired I plan to sue as is my right, for wrongful dismissal. I will need a good attorney familiar with firearms law, self defence law and labor law. Or a combination of the three. Any suggestions? I live in Connecticut. I have not contacted legal aid as I'm guessing as soon as I say the word gun or gun rights I'll get the runaround.

Bill

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While I am sorry to hear of your situation...

You knowingly violated company policy. Your intent may have been with the best of intentions... but you were not required to check the security of the building upon finding an open door. Nobody there asked you to do it.

If you believed it was necessary to check the door while armed... you should have had your gun out! But falling back on the fact that you have no idea why the door is open and clearly... there was another employee there before you made it in to work... smoking no less... you may have over-reacted.

It would be different if it was after hours. But if YOU are going to work... so are other people. Unless YOU are designated to unlock the business.. there is no reason for you to be so concerned about an open door.

It would have been in your best interests to call the business from another location even if you had to drive a distance away. If no answer you could then call the police for the open door. The business is not going to fire the cops for being there armed.

Had you drawn your firearm to check the interior of the building and was surprised by a smoking man who appeared from around the corner you could have shot and killed him.

Maybe open doors and "the smoking man" is why employees are prohibited from having firearms on company property.

Sorry, you were clearly in violation. The owner of the property did not want you there armed. You broke the rules and a law suit will probably get you nowhere.

You better go kiss some butt and try to save your job.

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LEO 229 wrote:

You knowingly violated company policy.

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Sorry, you were clearly in violation. The owner of the property did not want you there armed. You broke the rules and a law suit will probably get you nowhere.

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Seems some here are condemning the OP for knowingly violating company policy but I have to wonder if there was actually a rule or policyforbidding weapons on company property or if this is an "after the fact" decisionmade only as a result of the customer complaint. I realize that thismay besemantics,splitting hairs, whateverand the job may be lost anyway but all I see "fired for having a weapon on company property", not "fired for violating company policy by bring a weapon on property". Maybe the OP can clarify....

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smash29 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You knowingly violated company policy.

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Sorry, you were clearly in violation. The owner of the property did not want you there armed. You broke the rules and a law suit will probably get you nowhere.

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Seems some here are condemning the OP for knowingly violating company policy but I have to wonder if there was actually a rule or policyforbidding weapons on company property or if this is an "after the fact" decisionmade only as a result of the customer complaint. I realize that thismay besemantics,splitting hairs, whateverand the job may be lost anyway but all I see "fired for having a weapon on company property", not "fired for violating company policy by bring a weapon on property". Maybe the OP can clarify....

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Most businesses clearly state their weapons policy in their employee handbooks. Whether you actually read the book is another matter...

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Or it could be like the law (of the street) taught by men that are eager petty tyrants. They speak the law as they would have it, hence the rule of men and not the rule of law. Damn the Obamination and its enforcers.

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AWDstylez wrote:

smash29 wrote:

Seems some here are condemning the OP for knowingly violating company policy but I have to wonder if there was actually a rule or policyforbidding weapons on company property or if this is an "after the fact" decisionmade only as a result of the customer complaint. I realize that thismay besemantics,splitting hairs, whateverand the job may be lost anyway but all I see "fired for having a weapon on company property", not "fired for violating company policy by bring a weapon on property". Maybe the OP can clarify....

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Most businesses clearly state their weapons policy in their employee handbooks. Whether you actually read the book is another matter...

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Exactly!!

IMO... It appears he was suspended for having a weapon on the property and they had a policy on it.

But it is true that he did not identify if such a policy existed or not.

But in all honesty... I am condemning him for playing armed security for the business. It was foolish for him to approach the door of a possible burglary in progress. He did so empty handed and could have been killed by a suspect inside.

Was his life really worth the property of a business he only worked for? I say No!

He did not have the resources to handle a possible crime in progress. He is alone and there could have two or more suspects. What would he have done?

He was armed and had tombstone courage approaching that door. His better option was to leave and call someone that had more people and resources... like the police department.

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LEO 229 wrote:

He was armed and had tombstone courage approaching that door. His better option was to leave and call someone that had more people and resources... like the police department.

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x1000

Protect yourself, not your place of work and the rest of society. That's what the PO-lice are for. Better to not get involved.

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AWDstylez wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

He was armed and had tombstone courage approaching that door. His better option was to leave and call someone that had more people and resources... like the police department.

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x1000

Protect yourself, not your place of work and the rest of society. That's what the PO-lice are for. Better to not get involved.

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Eee-yup!!! That is how I see it.

There are calls that not even cops go on alone. This is one of them. They also have people in the area that are a radio call away to come running with guns to help in a gun fight.

The OP had one gun and no phone. What in the hell would he do if he was in a gun fight with two suspects? They are known to travel in pairs for commercial burglaries. :shock:

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While I can understand a no gun policy at work I got an interesting bit for you. At P&G you used to be allowed to, but there was a shooting with a deer rifle now its not allowed. During hunting season however everyone comes in after hunting in cammies with a rifle or shotgun lying across the seat and its ok. Even the Manager openly admits to keeping his hand gun in his car (parking lot is off limits too of course) but when I said its foolish that I cant protect myself on the drive to and from work because I cant have it in my car he took me aside and warned me not to be keeping it in my car when Ive seen him putting his own in the center console. God I love rule bending and double standards.



As much as I hate the situation I have to agree your probably screwed buddy. Go ahead and consult a lawyer, it could cost you a few hundred(or be free) and you just might get your job back, far fetched as it seems. Anythings possible. If that was my place of business I would have drawn you aside and quietly thanked you for your concern.

I also have to agree with LEO 229 it was pretty foolish, but hindsight is always 20/20. Easier to say what should and should not have been done with better perspective. I cant say that in his situation I wouldnt have done the same thing. Though knowing company policy I probably would have stuck it in my waistband and left the holster in the car.

I wish you luck.

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YllwFvr wrote:

While I can understand a no gun policy at work I got an interesting bit for you. At P&G you used to be allowed to, but there was a shooting with a deer rifle now its not allowed. During hunting season however everyone comes in after hunting in cammies with a rifle or shotgun lying across the seat and its ok. Even the Manager openly admits to keeping his hand gun in his car (parking lot is off limits too of course) but when I said its foolish that I cant protect myself on the drive to and from work because I cant have it in my car he took me aside and warned me not to be keeping it in my car when Ive seen him putting his own in the center console. God I love rule bending and double standards.



As much as I hate the situation I have to agree your probably screwed buddy. Go ahead and consult a lawyer, it could cost you a few hundred(or be free) and you just might get your job back, far fetched as it seems. Anythings possible. If that was my place of business I would have drawn you aside and quietly thanked you for your concern.

I also have to agree with LEO 229 it was pretty foolish, but hindsight is always 20/20. Easier to say what should and should not have been done with better perspective. I cant say that in his situation I wouldnt have done the same thing. Though knowing company policy I probably would have stuck it in my waistband and left the holster in the car.

I wish you luck.

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I would say that you are not really prohibited from protecting yourself to and from work. You can always park off the property. Right?

If the OP had a CC permit he could have approached with it hidden.

I guess I just thought of one thing....

"A customer heard a conversation about it and called the home office and complained about my having a pistol."

How did a customer find out?

Was the OP telling people what he did?

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There is much more here than I stated in my earlier post. I stand by my decision. I am the Key Holder and Second Manager and therefor responsible for the building security and the safety of my employees and customers. Unable to contact the police in a timely manner I entered. I would have entered without my pistol due to several past instances of robbery, violence and death at other stores in similar situations. My first and only concern was the safety of any employees. And it was early, a full hour before the store was supposed to be open!Apparently the employee was telling other people about what happened and a bystander took it upon themselves to report it. The decision about my job is still pending. This also addresses the bottom line. DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY?

And yes, it was foolish of me to enter by myself. My only thought at that time was the possible crime was over and a victim might be inside. Case in point, A manager was shot while opening one of our stores before he could enter. The perp left him on the sidewalk bleeding . The employee he was supposed to open with was 20 minutes late and he bled out an died before the paramedics arrived. Draw your own conclusions.

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You're an at-will employee. Your job is forfeit if the company says so.

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modelo57 wrote:

There is much more here than I stated in my earlier post. I stand by my decision. I am the Key Holder and Second Manager and therefor responsible for the building security and the safety of my employees and customers. Unable to contact the police in a timely manner I entered. I would have entered without my pistol due to several past instances of robbery, violence and death at other stores in similar situations. My first and only concern was the safety of any employees. And it was early, a full hour before the store was supposed to be open!Apparently the employee was telling other people about what happened and a bystander took it upon themselves to report it. The decision about my job is still pending. This also addresses the bottom line. DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY?

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Let me put it to you this way...

IMO.... You completely F'ed up!! And I will tell you how.

You were outside, unknown to any suspects inside that may have taken employees hostage. By your own words you suspected there to be problems.

You failed to tell anyone of what danger you perceived and gave up your anonymous status to check inside. There were no screams, no gunshots, nothing demanding you rush in and check on the welfare of occupants.

Sure, you were armed but what if the bad guy got the drop on you? What if they took a hostage? Would you drop your gun and give up? Now there is nobody to call for help!!!

Had there been a robbery, murder, rape, or other violent event... you could be killed to cover up their crime. And since the police are not responding... they get away.

I applaud you to your dedication to customers and employees but now you might be out of a job when there was no emergency inside. IMO.. you over-reacted.

I hope your boss accepts your dedication but since you have been suspended it does not appear to be the case.

As an owner of a business, I would not want an employee playing tackleberry when it is just an open door.



RIP
07 April 2001

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You may luck out with just a suspension, but if you violate company policy as an "at will" employee you have no standing to sue for wrongful discharge. You had a responsibility to contact the cops, not play Dirty Harry. Sorry, and I hope you get off with just a handslap, but that will be up to your boss, not the courts.