6 Va. Democrats flip flop, vote to limit military gun rights

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Please Click and DIGG!

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d12-6-Va-Democrats-flip-flop--vote-to-limit-military-members-to-1-handgun-a-year

SNIP

examiner.com — Almost nobody expected Governor Tim Kaine's veto of HB 1851 to be sustained by the Virginia General Assembly after Kaine insulted military members with his dishonest veto message. But "the biggest surprise of the day" was the flip flop votes of 6 Virginia Senate Democrats . . .

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And if you have a moment, also go to http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/8bxgb/6_va_democrats_flip_flop_vote_to_limit_military and give this column a "thumbs up," Thanks!

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They know that most military members won't abide the coming edicts from the white house (lower case until it is redeemed) and want to limit the privately held firearms of our best trained and combat proven citizens. Just remember "one gun a month" only counts for FFL sales, not private transactions between citizens. So buy a couple extra, you never know when you might need a little extra cash, and guns do hold their value a lot better than almost anything except gold!

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Tex4OC wrote:

remember "one gun a month" only counts for FFL sales, not private transactions between citizens.

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Huh? where's you get that? VA OhGAM applies to aall transfers - let's not suggest people break the law.

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Mike wrote:

Tex4OC wrote:

remember "one gun a month" only counts for FFL sales, not private transactions between citizens.

Click to expand...

Huh? where's you get that? VA OhGAM applies to all transfers - let's not suggest people break the law.

Click to expand...

Va. Code § 18.2-308.2:2(P)(2)(i) exempts private sales.

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WVCDL wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tex4OC wrote:

remember "one gun a month" only counts for FFL sales, not private transactions between citizens.

Click to expand...

Huh? where's you get that? VA OhGAM applies to all transfers - let's not suggest people break the law.

Click to expand...

Va. Code § 18.2-308.2:2(P)(2)(i) exempts private sales.

Click to expand...

VA Code § 18.2-308.2:2(P)(2)(i) states:

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

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(emphasis mine)

18.2-308.2:2(P)(2)(i) only exempts private sales of curio and relic firearms.

edit: clean-up formatting

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WVCDL wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tex4OC wrote:

remember "one gun a month" only counts for FFL sales, not private transactions between citizens.

Click to expand...

Huh? where's you get that? VA OhGAM applies to all transfers - let's not suggest people break the law.

Click to expand...

Va. Code § 18.2-308.2:2(P)(2)(i) exempts private sales.

Click to expand...

But only for "Curios or relics" - whcih are "firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;

2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors' items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less."

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Sent them all a response. And I don't even live in VA...

Dear Congressman

I would like to express my utmost distaste and displeasure for your recent "flip-flop" voting on HB 1851. I am not quite sure why you would vote one way and then vote differently on the SAME BILL? Could you please provide some details as to why you are flip-flopping votes and why you seek to disenfranchise America's bravest of their constitutional rights to bear arms?

Voters have taken notice of your stance.

Sincerely,
Concerned Voter

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D'oh! :uhoh:

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The explanation of the flip-flop is simple. They voted for the measure initially to appear "pro 2nd amendment/military" knowing it would be vetoed. Then when they realized the veto could actually be overridden, they had no choice but to vote no.

I for one am glad the bill failed -- anybody with a high-school education (sometimes less) can enlist...and this makes him a more trustworthy citizen than me how? Anybody who lives in Hampton Roads can attest to the frequency members of the military are involved in crimes.

Why don't they strike down the one-gun-a-month bullcrap for everybody?

Once you start voting the military (or "law enforcement" or commonwealth's attorneys, or the KGB) special privileges over those of other citizens, you destroy the basis of a democratic society. All citizens are supposed to be equal under the law.

Now as always, we see some (who? The police and military :uhoh are considered more equal than others.

And the slide toward the totalitarian state continues....

I wish somebody would bring suit under the 14th amendment's "equal protection" clause to strike down such dangerous abominations as LEOSA as well as all other laws creating special privileges for certain members of society.

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my bad, don't live in VA, I'll just shut up now. But that sounds like a real good reason to rally to get rid of OGAM.

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Does this purchase limit exception for "C&R" pieces apply to any and all guns so classified, or only to actual C&R licensees? Just curious.

-ljp

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Legba wrote:

Does this purchase limit exception for "C&R" pieces apply to any and all guns so classified, or only to actual C&R licensees? Just curious.

-ljp

Click to expand...

Appears to applu to all C&R transfers provided purchases are for your private collection (not for dealing). What is a C&R license? Federal?

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Virginian683 wrote:

The explanation of the flip-flop is simple. They voted for the measure initially to appear "pro 2nd amendment/military" knowing it would be vetoed. Then when they realized the veto could actually be overridden, they had no choice but to vote no.

I for one am glad the bill failed -- anybody with a high-school education (sometimes less) can enlist...and this makes him a more trustworthy citizen than me how? Anybody who lives in Hampton Roads can attest to the frequency members of the military are involved in crimes.

Why don't they strike down the one-gun-a-month bullcrap for everybody?

Once you start voting the military (or "law enforcement" or commonwealth's attorneys, or the KGB) special privileges over those of other citizens, you destroy the basis of a democratic society. All citizens are supposed to be equal under the law.

Now as always, we see some (who? The police and military :uhoh are considered more equal than others.

And the slide toward the totalitarian state continues....

I wish somebody would bring suit under the 14th amendment's "equal protection" clause to strike down such dangerous abominations as LEOSA as well as all other laws creating special privileges for certain members of society.

Click to expand...

Just a little explanation, maybe it will make you feel better, or maybe not. It was my understanding that the purpose of this bill was not particularly to grant "special privileges" to military folks, but to remove the one-gun-per-month burden from them due to the fact that many military personnel are deployed out of state for significant periods of time, and they simply don't have the option of waiting 30 days when they are occasionally back home for leave.

Ironically, the Governor's "excuse" for vetoing the bill included a disclaimer to the effect of "they can just get a CHP and buy more than one anyway", but of course the actual truth of the matter is that many military folks are not yet 21 years old, and thus, ineligible for a CHP.

That gaffe, combined with the several others made in veto comments serve to reinforce the fact that Governor's grasp of Virginia's gun laws is quite frightening.

TFred

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WVCDL wrote:

D'oh! :uhoh:

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Don't worry, it got me too. Luckly I don't have the money to buy more than one every few months.

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Virginian683 wrote:

The explanation of the flip-flop is simple. They voted for the measure initially to appear "pro 2nd amendment/military" knowing it would be vetoed. Then when they realized the veto could actually be overridden, they had no choice but to vote no.

I for one am glad the bill failed -- anybody with a high-school education (sometimes less) can enlist...and this makes him a more trustworthy citizen than me how? Anybody who lives in Hampton Roads can attest to the frequency members of the military are involved in crimes.

Why don't they strike down the one-gun-a-month bullcrap for everybody?

Once you start voting the military (or "law enforcement" or commonwealth's attorneys, or the KGB) special privileges over those of other citizens, you destroy the basis of a democratic society. All citizens are supposed to be equal under the law.

Now as always, we see some (who? The police and military :uhoh are considered more equal than others.

And the slide toward the totalitarian state continues....

I wish somebody would bring suit under the 14th amendment's "equal protection" clause to strike down such dangerous abominations as LEOSA as well as all other laws creating special privileges for certain members of society.

Click to expand...

I agree with my friend here.

I thought having two "Restaurant Carry" bills was poor as well. I did not support the one that was for "special classes" only, I supported the one for everyone.

While I understand the reasoning for wanting to change rules for our service members, the rules should be changed for all Virginians.

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Mike wrote:

Legba wrote:

Does this purchase limit exception for "C&R" pieces apply to any and all guns so classified, or only to actual C&R licensees? Just curious.

-ljp

Click to expand...

Appears to applu to all C&R transfers provided purchases are for your private collection (not for dealing). What is a C&R license? Federal?

Click to expand...

Yeah, a "C&R" is a category of federal firearms license that allows the holder to engage in interstate commerce with regard to firearms classified as curios and relics (generally mil-surp stuff at least 50 years old).

-ljp

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hsmith wrote:

While I understand the reasoning for wanting to change rules for our service members, the rules should be changed for all Virginians.

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I'm split on this myself. On one hand I understand that it gets us back some ground, better than nothing. On the other hand, it furthers the idea that LE/Mil are a special class of people. (Yes those who served have my respect, but that's not what I'm referring to)

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I got zero response from Colgan, but he rarely responds to anything.