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Thread: OC at the Concealed Weapons Licensing Board Meeting?

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    As I sit here procrastinating the paper I have to write for school, a question arose in my mind. Would open carrying at the Concealed Weapons Licensing Board meeting have an effect on whether or not my permit was granted?

    The board will be accepting or declining my application at their meeting tonight in Kalamazoo and I had thought about OCing there, although I've decided now that I don't think I will just to be safe (from laws or from judgement of the board members). I'm just posting because I'm curious if that could change anything.

    Thoughts?

    P.S. Since I've decided that I'm not going to OC there tonight, I'm not going to bother looking up the laws pertaining to OC in government buildings, etc. However, if this is a place that I am not allowed to OC in, I'd appreciate it if someone would point that out.

    Thanks!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I would do that myself when I go in to the freedom permission slip and tax review board, but in Oakland County, the meetings happen in a building containing a court room. Remember, courts are a separate issue from preemption, so DON'T carry in a building with a court room in it, with or without a CPL.

    If the board isn't meeting in a building that has a court in it, and you can transport your gun there in accordance with state law, I believe you should be fine. Remember, they have no choice but to give you the permit if you pass the background check and give the tyrannical state its extortion money. The key term here is "shall issue".

    (Not a lawyer, could be wrong, but that's how I understand it)
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I didn't think Kalamazoo County required you to show up for the meeting. When my friend over there got his CPL he just received a letter stating that he could come pick it up. Over here in Calhoun County you are required to attend the meeting.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    I didn't think Kalamazoo County required you to show up for the meeting.Â* When my friend over there got his CPL he just received a letter stating that he could come pick it up.Â* Over here in Calhoun County you are required to attend the meeting.
    You're not required to attend here unless they request your presence, but I thought it might be interesting to see how the board goes about their duties. I was surprised to learn that it only consists of 3 voting members and the county clerk (to oversee the meeting.)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I just got off the phone with the Kalamazoo County sheriff's office. They said that the Kalamazoo County administration building contains no courtroom of any type, nor does it deal with any court-related issues, and that it only deals with county administration. Therefore, I've concluded that it is legal for me to OC there, which I will do tonight. I'm looking forward to seeing how the meeting is run!

    Last minute question: if, for some reason, there are signs that prohibit firearms, or if someone tells me I have to put it in my car or leave, preemption applies, right?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    I just got off the phone with the Kalamazoo County sheriff's office. They said that the Kalamazoo County administration building contains no courtroom of any type, nor does it deal with any court-related issues, and that it only deals with county administration. Therefore, I've concluded that it is legal for me to OC there, which I will do tonight. I'm looking forward to seeing how the meeting is run!

    Last minute question: if, for some reason, there are signs that prohibit firearms, or if someone tells me I have to put it in my car or leave, preemption applies, right?
    If there is not a court in the building them preemption applies. You should be okay. Remember that some LEO's and prosecutors think you can only transport your handgun under the exact examples given in the statute. They may say you transported the weapon illegally by transporting it to the meeting, because that is not in the statute.

    We know that the intent was to allow all lawful purposes and the examples are just that, a few examples of lawful purposes, but still some don't thinks so. So be careful and take a voice recorder.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Remember that some LEO's and prosecutors think you can only transport your handgun under the exact examples given in the statute. They may say you transported the weapon illegally by transporting it to the meeting, because that is not in the statute.
    That's pretty easy to get around. I would do 2 things in that circumstance. First, I would park in a private parking lot and walk as far as I had to. Second, I would absolutely refuse to give details about how I got there. That way, all ends are covered.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Anxiously awaiting the outcome!

    SA

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    What Balls he has!springerdave.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    So here's what happened:

    When I got to the County Administration building it looked empty, except for a mop and vacuum cleaner. I tried all the doors only to find them locked. I waited outside until about 9:10, then tried the court building next door. There was a guy outside who had the door propped open, so I asked if he knew anything about the meeting. As far as he knew, they "never held meetings this late" at the administration building and that he didn't even think the gun board met here. He asked why I thought the meeting was here and at this time, so I referenced the website which I had open on a mobile phone.

    http://www.kalcounty.com/directory/b...ledweapons.htm

    From the website:

    "Kalamazoo County Board of Commissioners
    201 W. Kalamazoo Ave., Room 207
    Kalamazoo, MI 49007
    (269) 384-8111

    The Concealed Weapons Licensing Board meets on the second Tuesday of the month at 9:00 p.m. in Commission Chambers of the County Administration Building. The Board is responsible for the review and approval or denial of applications for concealed weapons permits."

    I know I at least have the date right because I was told by someone in the county clerk's office that the meeting was Tuesday, April 14. The only thing I can determine is that either I was in the wrong place and/or there at the wrong time because of false information on the website, or for some reason the meeting was rescheduled. I will be calling the county clerk tomorrow to see if the meeting actually happened and to find out if my CPL is ready.

    I'm only disappointed because I wanted to see how the meetings work. I guess if I'm actually curious enough I could go to the next one (but I doubt I will.)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    springerdave wrote:
    What Balls he has!springerdave.
    My thoughts exactly! He may have to change his user name if he pulls it off.

    SA

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I think we were just talking about how it's illegal to falsely announce when the meetings will be.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/24070.html
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    I think we were just talking about how it's illegal to falsely announce when the meetings will be.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/24070.html
    Yeah, I've read that one. I don't care enough about this to make a big deal out of it as long as I get my CPL soon. If it was approved today (and there's no reason I know of for it not to have been) then I can pick it up tomorrow.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    If it was approved today (and there's no reason I know of for it not to have been) then I can pick it up tomorrow.
    When did you apply?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    We know that the intent was to allow all lawful purposes and the examples are just that, a few examples of lawful purposes, but still some don't thinks so. So be careful and take a voice recorder.
    Article I, section 6 of the Michigan Constitution

    Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

    Bada bing, self-defense is a legal purpose...at least that's how Iread it

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    When did you apply?

    Bronson
    I applied for it March 9th. I just called and they said it was ready to pick up! Woohoo! Apparently the meeting was at 9 AM, not 9 PM as it says on the website. I informed them of the misinformation and they will be fixing it soon. I'm so glad that I can finally carry in my car; it was such a pain to trunk it all the time!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    And now I have my CPL in hand! :celebrate
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    I was turned down for a CPL in Macomb,so I lawyered up for the next board meeting.They decided to make us wait a month to determine that I was convicted of OUIL in 94' and had a ticket for open intoxicants in 96', both of which were not on the 8 and 3 year lists.The Sheriff's Rep stated he did not trust me in public with a firearm. We went back the next month and I showed them my copies of the Macomb Daily front pages from 8/14 and 8/17 of our OC picnic and the picture of me and Ron with the News 4 reporter.I explained that I already carry openly in public to defend myself and the citizens of this state,that I am my brothers keeper according to my Christian belief's!They were consiliatory towards me and gave me my CPL instantly and thanked me for being serious about my rights.Make sure you are prepared when you go to the board. You probably will not have the problems I had because of my record but it would not be wise to go unprepared to the board! God Bless! Jeff.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    hamaneggs wrote:
    I was turned down for a CPL in Macomb,so I lawyered up for the next board meeting.They decided to make us wait a month to determine that I was convicted of OUIL in 94' and had a ticket for open intoxicants in 96', both of which were not on the 8 and 3 year lists.The Sheriff's Rep stated he did not trust me in public with a firearm. We went back the next month and I showed them my copies of the Macomb Daily front pages from 8/14 and 8/17 of our OC picnic and the picture of me and Ron with the News 4 reporter.I explained that I already carry openly in public to defend myself and the citizens of this state,that I am my brothers keeper according to my Christian belief's!They were consiliatory towards me and gave me my CPL instantly and thanked me for being serious about my rights.Make sure you are prepared when you go to the board. You probably will not have the problems I had because of my record but it would not be wise to go unprepared to the board! God Bless! Jeff.
    Hmm, I was under the impression that Macomb had done away with the board meetings. I guess not. The meeting takes place in Mt. Clemens does it not?

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Yes.Meetings are at the Macomb County Circuit Court Building 5th Floor Conference Room.Once a month I believe.At least as of March of 09 when I recieved my CPL.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    And you had to answer questions from them before the permit was issued? Is that the procedure, or was it just because of your previous incidents?

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    hamaneggs wrote:
    I was turned down for a CPL in Macomb,so I lawyered up for the next board meeting.They decided to make us wait a month to determine that I was convicted of OUIL in 94' and had a ticket for open intoxicants in 96', both of which were not on the 8 and 3 year lists.The Sheriff's Rep stated he did not trust me in public with a firearm. We went back the next month and I showed them my copies of the Macomb Daily front pages from 8/14 and 8/17 of our OC picnic and the picture of me and Ron with the News 4 reporter.I explained that I already carry openly in public to defend myself and the citizens of this state,that I am my brothers keeper according to my Christian belief's!They were consiliatory towards me and gave me my CPL instantly and thanked me for being serious about my rights.Make sure you are prepared when you go to the board. You probably will not have the problems I had because of my record but it would not be wise to go unprepared to the board! God Bless! Jeff.
    What an arrogant jerk. His opinion does not matter. If you met the criteria, they have to issue.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    And you had to answer questions from them before the permit was issued? Is that the procedure, or was it just because of your previous incidents?
    I don't know whether that's procedure but I pretty much had to explain the whole situation with my record. They obviously did not know the law as well as I did when I appeared before them.I read the whole law before I applied to make sure I was eligible so by their actions I figured either they didn't know the law or they were excercising their anti-gun agenda to deny me my rights!I believe it was the later. I made sure that everyone in the room could hear what was going on and there had to be at least 20 people present.I believe that is why they were almost apologetic before they gave me my CPL. The state police rep and Disrict Att reps both congradulated me on recieving my CPL.The sheriff's rep ate crow.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    hamaneggs wrote:
    I was turned down for a CPL in Macomb,so I lawyered up for the next board meeting.They decided to make us wait a month to determine that I was convicted of OUIL in 94' and had a ticket for open intoxicants in 96', both of which were not on the 8 and 3 year lists.The Sheriff's Rep stated he did not trust me in public with a firearm. We went back the next month and I showed them my copies of the Macomb Daily front pages from 8/14 and 8/17 of our OC picnic and the picture of me and Ron with the News 4 reporter.I explained that I already carry openly in public to defend myself and the citizens of this state,that I am my brothers keeper according to my Christian belief's!They were consiliatory towards me and gave me my CPL instantly and thanked me for being serious about my rights.Make sure you are prepared when you go to the board. You probably will not have the problems I had because of my record but it would not be wise to go unprepared to the board! God Bless! Jeff.
    What an arrogant jerk.His opinion does not matter. If you met the criteria, they have to issue.
    He may be an arrogant jerk, but the board can deny a CPL based upon opinion supported by at least some facts (leaves a lot of discretion to the board)

    MCL28.425b License application; fee; verification of requirements; determination; circumstances for issuance; fingerprints; issuance or denial; temporary license; suspension or revocation of license; definitions.

    ...that issuing a license to the applicant to carry a concealed pistol in this state is not detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual. A determination under this subdivision shall be based on clear and convincing evidence of repeated
    violations of this act, crimes, personal protection orders or injunctions, or police reports or other clear and convincing evidence of the actions of, or statements of, the applicant that bear directly on the applicant’s ability to carry a concealed pistol.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    DrTodd wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    hamaneggs wrote:
    I was turned down for a CPL in Macomb,so I lawyered up for the next board meeting.They decided to make us wait a month to determine that I was convicted of OUIL in 94' and had a ticket for open intoxicants in 96', both of which were not on the 8 and 3 year lists.The Sheriff's Rep stated he did not trust me in public with a firearm. We went back the next month and I showed them my copies of the Macomb Daily front pages from 8/14 and 8/17 of our OC picnic and the picture of me and Ron with the News 4 reporter.I explained that I already carry openly in public to defend myself and the citizens of this state,that I am my brothers keeper according to my Christian belief's!They were consiliatory towards me and gave me my CPL instantly and thanked me for being serious about my rights.Make sure you are prepared when you go to the board. You probably will not have the problems I had because of my record but it would not be wise to go unprepared to the board! God Bless! Jeff.
    What an arrogant jerk.His opinion does not matter. If you met the criteria, they have to issue.
    He may be an arrogant jerk, but the board can deny a CPL based upon opinion supported by at least some facts (leaves a lot of discretion to the board)

    MCL28.425b License application; fee; verification of requirements; determination; circumstances for issuance; fingerprints; issuance or denial; temporary license; suspension or revocation of license; definitions.

    ...that issuing a license to the applicant to carry a concealed pistol in this state is not detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual. A determination under this subdivision shall be based on clear and convincing evidence of repeated
    violations of this act, crimes, personal protection orders or injunctions, or police reports or other clear and convincing evidence of the actions of, or statements of, the applicant that bear directly on the applicant’s ability to carry a concealed pistol.
    Not knowing what the OP said in front of the board that may have incriminated him, I have no argument. On paper, he fit the criteria.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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