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Thread: Legal Clarification

  1. #1
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    So after researching the documents provided on this website, I believe I'm pretty clear in general about the laws of Open Carry. However, there are three "auxiliary" issues/questions that I'm still unclear about. I tried emailing a lawyer that wrote a Case Alert Memorandum regarding the issue but he refused to answer my questions. So I'll post the questions here and if any of you are savy with the law and can point me to the Penal Code sections that address these questions, that'll be awesome.

    1.) are law enforcement officers allowed to run serial numbers on the weapon when they inspect it to verify that it's unloaded? Or does law enforcement authority only extend to checking that the weapon is indeed empty?

    2.) are law enforcement officers allowed to demand for ID when checking if the firearm is unloaded? To my understanding, pedestrians are not required to carry ID with them. Is this true? If so, what are the legal ramifications of not producing ID for a police officer whether due to refusal or simply not having one at the time?

    3.) to my understanding, it is unlawful to carry firearms into a state/national park. Is this true? If so, does this restriction also extend to "community" parks within normal city limits?

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Wild Horse wrote:
    1.) are law enforcement officers allowed to run serial numbers on the weapon when they inspect it to verify that it's unloaded? Or does law enforcement authority only extend to checking that the weapon is indeed empty?

    2.) are law enforcement officers allowed to demand for ID when checking if the firearm is unloaded? To my understanding, pedestrians are not required to carry ID with them. Is this true? If so, what are the legal ramifications of not producing ID for a police officer whether due to refusal or simply not having one at the time?

    3.) to my understanding, it is unlawful to carry firearms into a state/national park. Is this true? If so, does this restriction also extend to "community" parks within normal city limits?
    1. Current case law (Arizona v. Hicks) says that police can run a serial number on something that comes into plain view. Our understanding of this means that a police officer can note the number and run it later, but cannot note the number and detain you while he runs the number.

    2. California does not have a "stop and identify" statute, so you don't need to show ID. You don't even need to carry ID when open carrying. Law enforcements can ask you anything they want, it is up to you to assert your rights. You can simply say, "I don't see how that is relevant" or "I believe California doesn't have a stop and identify statute, so you cannot demand such things" or you can just remain silent. The case law here would be Hiibel v. Nevada if California had a stop and identify statute, but since it doesn't, we can't even get that far.

    3. Regarding state/national parks, you can check out this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/24426.html

    Regarding community parks I believe there is an enhancement charge for carrying a firearm in a park if you are doing something bad, but I do not believe it is flat out illegal to have a firearm in a park. Quoting decoligny from another thread:

    Hate to be technical, but it is my nature, so, technically the parks/playground thing is restricted by state law, but only if you are violating PC 417 (Brandishing), PC 12025 (Concealing), or PC 12031 (Loaded). As long as you aren't doing any of those, then you are fine carrying in a Playground/Park.

  3. #3
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    welcome to the forum wildhorse!

    one place you can look is at www.californiaopencarry.org
    that is a website created by one of our members that is dedicated to california OC laws. you should find the answer to most of your questions there.

    answer to number 1: they are allowed to run your serial number if you commited a crime while OC OR if the officer can see it in plain view and make a mental note. I dont believe they have the right to write it down and run it. thats just me.

    answer to number 2: no id needed. i along with many other members in this forum practice "sterile carry" which means we do not carry our identification while we are UOC. i leave mine in my jeep. its hard for them to check your id when you dont have it on you.

    i dont really have an answer to number 3 yet, i am new too and dont visit state or national parks often at all. im sorry i cant help you there.

    a word of advice to you, always carry a voice recorder and have it running in case you get stopped by an LE. it keeps you protected and everyone honest. a buddy who supports you is always good to have around. carry panphlets etc. etc.

    glad to have you here!

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