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Thread: The term Unloaded

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    Does anyone know where I can find out ifammo in the clip of the gun can be stored in thevehicle with the gun as long as the clip is out. Is it still considered unloaded? Does the ammo have to be stored seperately from the gun and the clip?



    My intention is to carry the gun minus the clip but have the clip loaded and in a seperate location in the vehicle. Is that legal?


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    MACHINEGUNMATT wrote:

    Does anyone know where I can find out ifammo in the clip of the gun can be stored in thevehicle with the gun as long as the clip is out. Is it still considered unloaded? Does the ammo have to be stored seperately from the gun and the clip?

    My intention is to carry the gun minus the clip but have the clip loaded and in a seperate location in the vehicle. Is that legal?




    First off edit your post to get rid of all the empty space under your post.

    Second, you can have a loaded magazine in the same case as your firearm as long as the gun is unloaded and secured as described by law.

    Below is the transport law. I have underlined the important parts. Notice no mention is made of where the ammo can be therefore it is legal to have ammo in the same case or area of the handgun as long as all the other requirements are made..

    TRANSPORTING A HANDGUN:



    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.



    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk? No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?

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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk?Â* No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?
    Correct.

    If the gun is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, you're in violation of the law.

    If your vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be unloaded, locked, and inaccessible to the driver.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    What about a small SUV? It's a hatch back I guess you'd call it. But it does have a compartment for the spare tire that I could place the case in. So with no trunk, that would probably be my best option eh?

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    As long as it is not immediately accessible... which is left for the court to determine. You would PROBABLY be OK with it in the spare tire compartment.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk? No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?
    Correct.

    If the gun is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, you're in violation of the law.

    If your vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be unloaded, locked, and inaccessible to the driver.
    I have a Criminal Procedure book from the State Police and it says that the gun must be in a case designed to hold a gun, the word locked is not in the wording. Plus it says nothing as to wherethe ammo must be stored.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    I carried my pistol behind my truck seat in a wooden case unlatched facing up so that when Ipracticed leaning forward, tipping the seat forward with my elbow, the casewould open up enough for me to get my fingers in the case enough to open it further& get the gun out. Since it is an Auto the clip was in the door handle or on the seat. The pistol was always placed in the case with the slide back so as to Lock & Load quicker.

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    conservative85 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk? No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?
    Correct.

    If the gun is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, you're in violation of the law.

    If your vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be unloaded, locked, and inaccessible to the driver.
    I have a Criminal Procedure book from the State Police and it says that the gun must be in a case designed to hold a gun, the word locked is not in the wording. Plus it says nothing as to wherethe ammo must be stored.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    I carried my pistol behind my truck seat in a wooden case unlatched facing up so that when Ipracticed leaning forward, tipping the seat forward with my elbow, the casewould open up enough for me to get my fingers in the case enough to open it further& get the gun out. Since it is an Auto the clip was in the door handle or on the seat. The pistol was always placed in the case with the slide back so as to Lock & Load quicker.
    Wow, that's definitely material for an argument.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
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    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk? No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?
    Correct.

    If the gun is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, you're in violation of the law.

    If your vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be unloaded, locked, and inaccessible to the driver.
    I have a Criminal Procedure book from the State Police and it says that the gun must be in a case designed to hold a gun, the word locked is not in the wording. Plus it says nothing as to wherethe ammo must be stored.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    I carried my pistol behind my truck seat in a wooden case unlatched facing up so that when Ipracticed leaning forward, tipping the seat forward with my elbow, the casewould open up enough for me to get my fingers in the case enough to open it further& get the gun out. Since it is an Auto the clip was in the door handle or on the seat. The pistol was always placed in the case with the slide back so as to Lock & Load quicker.
    Wow, that's definitely material for an argument.
    What argument? Con85 is right it doesn't have to be locked and separate from ammo. The only place that mentions a locked gun case is for a CPL holder that has had an alcoholic drink, then the weapon must be unloadedbe in a locked case when in a vehicle or in the trunk. See below.

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    DELETE PARTS

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Hmm, so I can put my unloaded Pistol, in it's original case, with loaded mag(s) also in this case, as long as this case is in my trunk? No need for a trigger lock or ammo stored in separate location within the vehicle, or the case it's self to be locked?
    Correct.

    If the gun is in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, you're in violation of the law.

    If your vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be unloaded, locked, and inaccessible to the driver.
    I have a Criminal Procedure book from the State Police and it says that the gun must be in a case designed to hold a gun, the word locked is not in the wording. Plus it says nothing as to wherethe ammo must be stored.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    I carried my pistol behind my truck seat in a wooden case unlatched facing up so that when Ipracticed leaning forward, tipping the seat forward with my elbow, the casewould open up enough for me to get my fingers in the case enough to open it further& get the gun out. Since it is an Auto the clip was in the door handle or on the seat. The pistol was always placed in the case with the slide back so as to Lock & Load quicker.
    Wow, that's definitely material for an argument.
    What argument? Con85 is right it doesn't have to be locked and separate from ammo. The only place that mentions a locked gun case is for a CPL holder that has had an alcoholic drink, then the weapon must be unloadedbe in a locked case when in a vehicle or in the trunk. See below.

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    DELETE PARTS

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    I have no issue with the "locked" part, or ammo location.

    in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms
    is a case designed to latch closed considered closed if it is unlatched?

    is the case designed for the storage of firearms, or is it a wooden humidor or cigar box that happens to be the right size for a handgun?

    edit:formatting
    eta: Obviously these concerns are only for a non-CPL holder.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle. (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    This is taken from a criminal procedure book that many MSP are educated from. It seems to paraphrase law. If an officer is educated solely on this text, and not the specific wording of the law, there may be an argument.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that what Con85 did was not legal, only that it may have caused an officer to take issue. Just trying to point out the risks, that's all.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    DELETE PARTS

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    I have no issue with the "locked" part, or ammo location.

    in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms
    is a case designed to latch closed considered closed if it is unlatched?

    is the case designed for the storage of firearms, or is it a wooden humidor or cigar box that happens to be the right size for a handgun?

    edit:formatting
    eta: Obviously these concerns are only for a non-CPL holder.
    It doesn't define a compartment or container. In regards to the above (CPL and booze) the container must be lockable. If a cigar box can be locked I would think it would suffice.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    DELETE PARTS

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    I have no issue with the "locked" part, or ammo location.

    in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms
    is a case designed to latch closed considered closed if it is unlatched?

    is the case designed for the storage of firearms, or is it a wooden humidor or cigar box that happens to be the right size for a handgun?

    edit:formatting
    eta: Obviously these concerns are only for a non-CPL holder.
    It doesn't define a compartment or container. In regards to the above (CPL and booze) the container must be lockable. If a cigar box can be locked I would think it would suffice.
    Right. I think so too. I just noticed the discrepancy between the law and the criminal procedure book.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    According to my CPL instructors, (without a CPL) you can not carry the ammo in the same case as the gun and any magazines need to be empty as well. Ammo and guns must be separate.

    To tired to look through the book, I will tomorrow when I can "decipher" it.



    SA

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    SIDE ARM wrote:
    According to my CPL instructors, (without a CPL) you can not carry the ammo in the same case as the gun and any magazines need to be empty as well. Ammo and guns must be separate.

    To tired to look through the book, I will tomorrow when I can "decipher" it.



    SA
    Not true, ammo can be in the same case. For example you can have the unloaded gun and two full magazines in the same case and you are legal. I'm not saying they may not give you some crap about it, but it's legal. Print out the above pertinent law and keep it in your case.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    thank you to all who answered my post. The information you gave was very helpful. This last weekendI took my cpl class .

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    On the subject of transporting (but with a twist): I carry a pistol with me almost everywhere I go; unless I'm planning to go somewhere to drink. Sometimes I end up carrying it into a restaurant to meet up with friends or something. If we get to drinking, I'll take my pistol out to my vehicle before I sip my first beverage. Since I drive an SUV, there is no trunk. What I do is unload the weapon, lock the magazine in the glove box (actually locking it with they key), and place the pistol itself behind the driver seat. Sometimes I'll go so far as to field strip the pistol and place it behind my seat.

    This way if I am pulled over, I cannot be accused of carrying while under the influence. I don't want to get into discussions about DUI... it takes more than 2 beers over a 3 or 4 hour period to render me legally DUI; but only one sip of beer to charge me with a felony for carrying while drinking.

    Can anyone confirm if my system is legally acceptable? I'd rather fix any issues with it now than to have to reverse engineer a defense later.

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    Veritas wrote:
    On the subject of transporting (but with a twist): I carry a pistol with me almost everywhere I go; unless I'm planning to go somewhere to drink. Sometimes I end up carrying it into a restaurant to meet up with friends or something. If we get to drinking, I'll take my pistol out to my vehicle before I sip my first beverage. Since I drive an SUV, there is no trunk. What I do is unload the weapon, lock the magazine in the glove box (actually locking it with they key), and place the pistol itself behind the driver seat. Sometimes I'll go so far as to field strip the pistol and place it behind my seat.

    This way if I am pulled over, I cannot be accused of carrying while under the influence. I don't want to get into discussions about DUI... it takes more than 2 beers over a 3 or 4 hour period to render me legally DUI; but only one sip of beer to charge me with a felony for carrying while drinking.

    Can anyone confirm if my system is legally acceptable? I'd rather fix any issues with it now than to have to reverse engineer a defense later.
    If you meet the following you should be okay. My spin in your case is that you have to have the handgun in a locked container with the ammo separate. That ammo doesn't have to be locked up. In fact you could have the ammo on you. But if you just put the handgun behind the seat with no case you are in violation. The statute doesn't address whether the weapon is fielded stripped or not.

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    If you meet the following you should be okay. My spin in your case is that you have to have the handgun in a locked container with the ammo separate. That ammo doesn't have to be locked up. In fact you could have the ammo on you. But if you just put the handgun behind the seat with no case you are in violation. The statute doesn't address whether the weapon is fielded stripped or not.

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    Thanks for the info. So in essence, carrying a spare gun case in my vehicle (and putting a lock on it) would suffice for storing the pistol. I'll continue with locking the mag in the glovebox though. I'd put the pistol in the glovebox, but it's filled with other stuff. :-P

    Another question regarding drinking and carrying: I know that as a non-carrying driver you are NOT required to submit to PBT or field sobriety test under the false threat of losing your drivers license. Contrary to the popular myth, your drivers licenses will NOT be suspended for failure to comply (but it can be suspended if you are taken into custody and refuse to submit to the sobriety test at the police station). My CPL instructor told us that by having a CPL, that you MUST consent to PBT's and field sobriety tests whenever an officer asks (at the side of the road or even just walking down the street); even if you are not carrying your weapon. I can't believe this would be true... do you know if it is?

    I ask not becaue I am a raging alcoholic or anything, but I prefer not to submit to any sort of test or exam unless the law compells me to in order to maintain my driving and concealed carrying permits.

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    By accepting a Concealed Pistol License you are giving implied conset for testing.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1ck...0AND%20license

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.



    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    (2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:

    (a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.

    (b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.

    (c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.

    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

    (5) Before an individual is required to submit to a chemical analysis under subsection (4), the peace officer shall inform the individual of all of the following:

    (a) The individual may refuse to submit to the chemical analysis, but if he or she chooses to do so, all of the following apply:

    (i) The officer may obtain a court order requiring the individual to submit to a chemical analysis.

    (ii) The refusal may result in his or her license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended or revoked.

    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.

    (6) The collection and testing of breath, blood, and urine specimens under this section shall be conducted in the same manner that breath, blood, and urine specimens are collected and tested for alcohol- and controlled-substance-related driving violations under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.

    (7) If a person refuses to take a chemical test authorized under this section, the peace officer shall promptly report the refusal in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.

    (8) If a person takes a chemical test authorized under this section and the test results indicate that the individual had any bodily alcohol content while carrying a concealed pistol, the peace officer shall promptly report the violation in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.

    (9) As used in this section:

    (a) “Alcoholic liquor” means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.

    (b) “Controlled substance” means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7401.



    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  23. #23
    Regular Member
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    Bronson wrote:
    By accepting a Concealed Pistol License you are giving implied conset for testing.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1ckxss45erx4ifbylbdexd45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-28-425k&query=on&highlight=concealed%20AND%20 pistol%20AND%20license

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.



    Sec. 5k.

    (1) Acceptance of a license issued under this act to carry a concealed pistol constitutes implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis under this section. This section also applies to individuals listed in section 12a(a) to (f).

    (2) An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section. A person who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:

    (a) If the person was under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or a combination of alcoholic liquor and a controlled substance, or had a bodily alcohol content of .10 or more grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to permanently revoke the license. The concealed weapon licensing board shall permanently revoke the license as ordered by the court.

    (b) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .08 or more but less than .10 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or $100.00, or both. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol to revoke the license for not more than 3 years. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court.

    (c) If the person had a bodily alcohol content of .02 or more but less than .08 grams per 100 milliliters of blood, per 210 liters of breath, or per 67 milliliters of urine, the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. The court may order the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual the license to revoke the license for 1 year. The concealed weapon licensing board shall revoke the license as ordered by the court. The court shall notify the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the individual a license to carry a concealed pistol if an individual is found responsible for a subsequent violation of this subdivision.

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.

    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

    (5) Before an individual is required to submit to a chemical analysis under subsection (4), the peace officer shall inform the individual of all of the following:

    (a) The individual may refuse to submit to the chemical analysis, but if he or she chooses to do so, all of the following apply:

    (i) The officer may obtain a court order requiring the individual to submit to a chemical analysis.

    (ii) The refusal may result in his or her license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended or revoked.

    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.

    (6) The collection and testing of breath, blood, and urine specimens under this section shall be conducted in the same manner that breath, blood, and urine specimens are collected and tested for alcohol- and controlled-substance-related driving violations under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.

    (7) If a person refuses to take a chemical test authorized under this section, the peace officer shall promptly report the refusal in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.

    (8) If a person takes a chemical test authorized under this section and the test results indicate that the individual had any bodily alcohol content while carrying a concealed pistol, the peace officer shall promptly report the violation in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.

    (9) As used in this section:

    (a) “Alcoholic liquor” means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.

    (b) “Controlled substance” means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7401.



    Bronson
    I understand that I must submit while carrying... my question is whether or not I must consent if I'm NOT carrying. In other words, does having a CPL when I'm NOT carrying constitute implied consent?

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
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    Post imported post

    Veritas wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    If you meet the following you should be okay. My spin in your case is that you have to have the handgun in a locked container with the ammo separate. That ammo doesn't have to be locked up. In fact you could have the ammo on you. But if you just put the handgun behind the seat with no case you are in violation. The statute doesn't address whether the weapon is fielded stripped or not.

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.
    Thanks for the info. So in essence, carrying a spare gun case in my vehicle (and putting a lock on it) would suffice for storing the pistol. I'll continue with locking the mag in the glovebox though. I'd put the pistol in the glovebox, but it's filled with other stuff. :-P

    Another question regarding drinking and carrying: I know that as a non-carrying driver you are NOT required to submit to PBT or field sobriety test under the false threat of losing your drivers license. Contrary to the popular myth, your drivers licenses will NOT be suspended for failure to comply (but it can be suspended if you are taken into custody and refuse to submit to the sobriety test at the police station). My CPL instructor told us that by having a CPL, that you MUST consent to PBT's and field sobriety tests whenever an officer asks (at the side of the road or even just walking down the street); even if you are not carrying your weapon. I can't believe this would be true... do you know if it is?

    I ask not becaue I am a raging alcoholic or anything, but I prefer not to submit to any sort of test or exam unless the law compells me to in order to maintain my driving and concealed carrying permits.
    Not an attorney, but I believe this is intended to apply if you are carrying a concealed weapon under the CPL. If you have no weapon and are walking down the street and they demand a test, I would refuse and work it out in court later.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
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    Post imported post

    Veritas wrote:
    I understand that I must submit while carrying... my question is whether or not I must consent if I'm NOT carrying. In other words, does having a CPL when I'm NOT carrying constitute implied consent?
    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

    Doesn't say anything about when you're not carrying. Only if the officer believes you may be.

    Bronson

    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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