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Thread: Montana Sovereinty Bills have national scope

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    Montana sovereignty bills have national scope

    By KAHRIN DEINES
    Associated Press Writer
    News Link

    HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- Gov. Brian Schweitzer has signed into law a bill that aims to exempt Montana-made guns from federal regulation, adding firepower to a battery of legislative efforts to assert states' rights across the nation.

    "It's a gun bill, but it's another way of demonstrating the sovereignty of the state of Montana," Democrat Schweitzer said.

    Since the law applies only to those guns that are made and kept in Montana, its impact is limited. The state is home to just a handful of specialty gun makers, known for recreating rifles used to settle the West, and most of their customers are out-of-state.

    But supporters of the new law hope it triggers a court case testing the legal basis for federal rules governing gun sales.

    "What we need here is for Montana to be able to handle Montana's business and affairs," bill sponsor Rep. Joel Boniek, a Republican and wilderness guide from Livingston, told fellow lawmakers during the bill's House debate.

    The measure is one of many introduced by state lawmakers across the nation seeking to confront what some see as a federal overreach into state matters that will be extended with the national stimulus plan.

    Along with the gun bill, Montana legislators are considering a resolution that affirms the 10th Amendment principle that the federal government only has those powers that are specifically given to it by the U.S. Constitution.

    "The whole goal is to awaken the people so that we can return to a properly grounded republic," Rep. Michael More, R-Gallatin Gateway and the Montana resolution's sponsor, said at a House committee hearing Wednesday.

    As many as fifteen other Legislatures have also been mulling resolutions that buck federal control in states such as New Hampshire, South Carolina, Missouri and Oklahoma.

    "The balance has swung far to the extreme to the empowerment of the federal government, and to the harm of the individual states," More said.

    Opponents of the state sovereignty bids, however, warn they could give legitimacy to the kind of anti-government ideas that fueled the militia movement in Montana and elsewhere.

    "When you really actually get in and look at it there is a lot of what we feel is very dangerous, very anti-government language that reads very similar to posters for the militia movement in the 1990s," said Travis McAdam, the interim director of the Montana Human Rights Network, a group formed to oppose racism and extremism.

    One of the few state Senators who voted against the gun bill - Sen. Christine Kaufmann, D-Helena - is that group's director when the Legislature is not in session. She ties the bills' proliferation to fears about the Democratic administration of President Barack Obama and stimulus spending.

    "I do think that there is a kind of renewed vehemence to this kind of right-wing rhetoric being spewed by conservative talk show hosts to rile the troops and they are using the fact that we have a Democratic, black president as one of their rallying calls," Kaufmann said.

    The Montana bills are being sponsored by freshman legislators who ran as part of a broader effort to oust more moderate Republicans in last spring's elections.

    House Resolution 3, the one sponsored by More, follows another states' rights declaration that deadlocked in the same committee earlier this session, although the committee's chairman said it may have a shot on its second try.

    House Bill 246, the Montana-made gun bill, cleared the Legislature easily before reaching the governor's desk.

    Its supporters next plan to find a "squeaky clean" Montanan who wants to send a note to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives threatening to build and sell about 20 rifles without federal dealership licensing. If the ATF says it's illegal, the gun bill's backers plan to file a lawsuit in federal court with the goal of launching a legal showdown that lands in the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The Montana Shooting Sports Association, which drafted the bill, has said it will raise the money to pay for any legal costs.

    "It doesn't cost us any money and I like guns," Schweitzer said after signing the bill.

    "I like big guns, I like little guns, I like pistols, I like rifles, and I would like to buy a gun that's made in Montana," Schweitzer said.



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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    This is good, However Id like to know if he signed HB228?

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    Sounds like you guys have a governor with some patriotic balls! Three cheers!!

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    I'm surprised to find that he's got balls Period!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    This is good, However Id like to know if he signed HB228?
    JBinMontana wrote: (emphasis mine)
    <snip>
    HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- Gov. Brian Schweitzer has signed into law a bill that aims to exempt Montana-made guns from federal regulation, adding firepower to a battery of legislative efforts to assert states' rights across the nation.
    <snip>

    That'd be a yes.

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    The Federal octopus has it's tentacles in stuff never intended. 'Bout time the 10A was stuffed in it's eye. This is still a Republic... Now 'n then those DC goons need reminding of that.

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    Pagan wrote:
    Â*Sounds like you guys have a governor with some patriotic balls! Three cheers!!
    Yes and he's a Democrat no less!

    If I lived in Montana I would re-elect him!!!

    He did sign HB 228 into law,

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    You got to see this Glenn Beck on youtube. If you got 11 min to see what they are talking about.

    Glenn Beck - States to Declare Intrastate Sovereignty

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZQ4r2cp_mw



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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    These bills are nothing more than complete wastes of political capital with no effect whatsoever. The ATFE and the FBI do not recognize these laws. All this will do is give a false sense of security to some gun owners, who think that somehow this law will protect them, and that somehow the state government will become their defense lawyer when they make a machinegun in their garage and the feds find out about it. I don't see the Montana or other AG's acting as defense lawyers. They will be hung out to dry as examples for everyone to see.

    The real way of dealing with this problem is through the court system. After we get some rulings from SCOTUS about the Second Amendment, I can see the strong possibility of a challenge to the Hughes Amendment after we get full carry rights out of them (the Sykes case out of California *could* make it to SCOTUS defending on how badly the other side wants to fight, also there are other states with similar problems to California we can go after).

    The right way to do this is through litigation, not through grandstanding BS state laws that are merely morsels of uselessness that state politicians throw gun owners way just to make us think that they "did something" for gun owners. These bills are worse than nothing.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    These bills are nothing more than complete wastes of political capital with no effect whatsoever. The ATFE and the FBI do not recognize these laws. All this will do is give a false sense of security to some gun owners, who think that somehow this law will protect them, and that somehow the state government will become their defense lawyer when they make a machinegun in their garage and the feds find out about it. I don't see the Montana or other AG's acting as defense lawyers. They will be hung out to dry as examples for everyone to see.

    The real way of dealing with this problem is through the court system. After we get some rulings from SCOTUS about the Second Amendment, I can see the strong possibility of a challenge to the Hughes Amendment after we get full carry rights out of them (the Sykes case out of California *could* make it to SCOTUS defending on how badly the other side wants to fight, also there are other states with similar problems to California we can go after).

    The right way to do this is through litigation, not through grandstanding BS state laws that are merely morsels of uselessness that state politicians throw gun owners way just to make us think that they "did something" for gun owners. These bills are worse than nothing.
    Since you don't live here in Montana it sure seems you think, I use the word lightly think that you know it all.

    Montana is well versed with telling the federal goverment where to get off... think back when all the other states were going to just bow to the REAL ID ACT. Yep, your own state included. Montana told them where to get off and won, still holding ground too. Don't tell us what you think you may know.... yep I know its tough living in a state that just lets the federal government run all over you.

    Sorry take your soap box some place else. :celebrate

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    Also, keep in mind Mr. Washington State, HB 246 states that you cannot make a firearm that will shoot two or more bullets with each activation of the trigger or the firing mechanism. READ THE LAW. It's pretty self-explanatory. Montana has succeeded before with laws along these lines and has thought this one through very thoroughly before passing it.
    The solution for you is simple, if you don't like it, don't read about it, comment on it or travel to this state!! We'd appreciate it if you'd keep your negative comments on your own side of Idaho and we'll keep ours about your state on our side!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    With a Attitude like that No wonder Washington has Crap for a Second Amendment. Try being a little more optimistic!

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    It has recently come to the attention of many politicians, legislators, and political aficionados that other states are wanting to follow suit and pass laws of a similar nature. Texas for one, is looking to start a law in their state legislature that is similar in nature to Montana's House Bill 246. Some people need to realize that in all honesty and Constitutional Judgement, the Federal Government has not authority taxing, regulating or restricting the manufacture, sale or distribution of several products (such as firearms) if they don't cross state lines. Since they don't fall under the jurisdiction of 'Interstate Commerce' the Feds don't have a leg to stand on!!
    It's quite simple in that regard.
    Now Mr. Peterson, if you're content in allowing the federal government to regulate things they have no business being in the middle of, that's quite fine with me! Since I don't live in Washington and have no intention of moving their, your state laws have no effect on me!! Just keep in mind, if I were insulting how ridiculous your state is regarding some matters I'm sure you would get pretty offensive too! Don't come into the thread of a state other than your own, and insult the way they do things and don't come in here and tell us that our state doesn't know what it's doing!! Many of us well-educated individuals encouraged our Legislators to vote in favor of HB's 228 and 246 because we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is what is best for us and what is needed to prove to the Feds' that we're not going to sit idlly by while they try to usurp their power in our own backyard!!
    To insult this law is also an insult to us as individuals! I'll thank you to leave your comments to yourself and keep your insults to a minimum. With all due respect, I don't require a title of 'State Researcher' under my username to know what I'm talking about. Even so, it would be best if some things weren't flaunted.
    Thank you for your time and for your comments, as unwanted as they may be!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I don't live in Montana... but I'm REAL aware of the 10A and endemic abrogation of State authorityto continued encroachment of the Feds beyond Constitutional limits. The STATES are to be served by the Federal Government, not controlled by it. This is a Republic. Too many have come to view this nation as a sort of Federal monarchy. (We fought a revolution against that if you'll recall.) The Feds extend their power thru dangling monetary carrots. You take the carrot... they call the tune. The 'mob' does this. It's time the Federal octopus is put back in it's box. Facismis not what the founding fathers had in mind when they created the Constitution.

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    I'm a born and raised proud Virginian, but I think you Montana folks have finally passed us up in the patriotic department!

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    Sounds to me like everyone understands the significance and the importance of bills like HB's 228 and 246, everyone that is except Mr. Peterson. It is important for each and every state to let the Federal Government know just how far their authority can and should go, some states (like Montana and others) are just more willing to voice that limitation. I don't know what Washington's stance on the matter is, but I can say that I wouldn't be willing to sit idly by and let my state usurp it's own authority, or let the Fed's do the same for theirs.
    Some are willing to sit by, others are willing to do something about it. I think Montana has shown that it's people are willing to stand up and speak for themselves. I think some people feel it necessary to insult our laws and our way of life as a form of 'lashing out' because theyre jealous that their state isn't doing something like this as well!!
    DON'T HATE, APPRECIATE!!
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    40s-and-wfan wrote:
    DON'T HATE, APPRECIATE!!
    I'm another Arizonian that certianly appreciates your state. You guys ROCK!

    We need more states with the balls to tell the Feds enough already, stop trying to control everything. What is crazy is liberals always say they are for personal freedoms, yet they want to control everything you do, eat, drink or smoke. Just leave us alone!

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    I agree. Check out our Illustrious President's recent comments about finding a replacement to fill the soon-to-be-vacant seat in the Supreme Court. He said he wants to find someone to fill the seat that shares his Constitutional Views and opinions... I think we know where his views and opinions are and where he stands!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    These bills are nothing more than complete wastes of political capital with no effect whatsoever. The ATFE and the FBI do not recognize these laws. All this will do is give a false sense of security to some gun owners, who think that somehow this law will protect them, and that somehow the state government will become their defense lawyer when they make a machinegun in their garage and the feds find out about it. I don't see the Montana or other AG's acting as defense lawyers. They will be hung out to dry as examples for everyone to see.

    The real way of dealing with this problem is through the court system. After we get some rulings from SCOTUS about the Second Amendment, I can see the strong possibility of a challenge to the Hughes Amendment after we get full carry rights out of them (the Sykes case out of California *could* make it to SCOTUS defending on how badly the other side wants to fight, also there are other states with similar problems to California we can go after).

    The right way to do this is through litigation, not through grandstanding BS state laws that are merely morsels of uselessness that state politicians throw gun owners way just to make us think that they "did something" for gun owners. These bills are worse than nothing.
    Come on Gray, you can't be that ignorant. The law was specifically crafted to provide a narrow test case for the federal courts. It defines limits for what is not interstate commerce. Automatic weapons are specifically not covered. This law was crafted specifically to deliver 10th A winning litigation.

    The real question is whether the BATFE is stupid enough to take the bait. Does anybody think that a jury in Montana would convict somebody of a violation of interstate commerce for making or buying a Montana gun in Montana?



    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    JBinMontana wrote:
    Gray Peterson wrote:
    These bills are nothing more than complete wastes of political capital with no effect whatsoever. The ATFE and the FBI do not recognize these laws. All this will do is give a false sense of security to some gun owners, who think that somehow this law will protect them, and that somehow the state government will become their defense lawyer when they make a machinegun in their garage and the feds find out about it. I don't see the Montana or other AG's acting as defense lawyers. They will be hung out to dry as examples for everyone to see.

    The real way of dealing with this problem is through the court system. After we get some rulings from SCOTUS about the Second Amendment, I can see the strong possibility of a challenge to the Hughes Amendment after we get full carry rights out of them (the Sykes case out of California *could* make it to SCOTUS defending on how badly the other side wants to fight, also there are other states with similar problems to California we can go after).

    The right way to do this is through litigation, not through grandstanding BS state laws that are merely morsels of uselessness that state politicians throw gun owners way just to make us think that they "did something" for gun owners. These bills are worse than nothing.
    Since you don't live here in Montana it sure seems you think, I use the word lightly think that you know it all.

    Montana is well versed with telling the federal goverment where to get off... think back when all the other states were going to just bow to the REAL ID ACT. Yep, your own state included. Montana told them where to get off and won, still holding ground too. Don't tell us what you think you may know.... yep I know its tough living in a state that just lets the federal government run all over you.

    Sorry take your soap box some place else. :celebrate
    Damn right JB in Montana, I just want to say Amen to all of you Freedom Fighters in the great REPUBLIC Of Montana, The Rule Of Law is on your side to tell the Feds to "kiss off" and as a further to take back our LIBERTY, FREEDOM & IN-ALIENABLE RIGHTSfrom the "bottom up" is not to forget the Sheriff of your county, so we can do both;enforce our States rights and 10th amendment and take back our FREEDOM beginning in all of our counties all across AMERICA please see:

    style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #5b5b5b"PLEASE: TO ALL OF YOU READING THIS PAGE WHO LOVE AND CARE ABOUT FREEDOM, LIBERTY, PRIVACY, THE CONSTITUTION & BILL OF RIGHTS FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY, READ THIS SITE, CHECKOUT THE LINKS, DO SOME RESEARCH AND TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO READ THIS SITE, DO THE SAME AND PASS IT ALONG. AMERICA NEEDS YOU, WE NEED EACH OTHER BECAUSE OUR FREEDOM AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS A COUNTRY TRULY HANG IN THE BALANCE!! Restoring our CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC & Enforcing ALL of our IN-ALIENABLE RIGHTS, not just limited to the BILL OF RIGHTS! The only RIGHTS you have are those you are willing to fight for! INDIVIDUALS only have RIGHTS, collectives, communities, organisations and your government have "privileges"!! RIGHTS are fundamental to each individual and are inseparable from you, therefore they predate any Constitution or Government. No Government has any authority to place a "lien" upon your RIGHTS or to infringe upon them, hence "in-alienable RIGHTS!"Remember all of your Public Officials, Govt officers including law enforcement are your SERVANTS, your employess and you are the MASTER, THE "SOVEREIGN" so treat them as such! It's not the other way around where they (Govt) can tell you what to do. We have RIGHTS and we give the government "privileges." If they violate any of your RIGHTS then deal with them accordingly by filing a criminal complaint against them in their personal capacity! In order for them to be complient with the law they HAVE to obey the CONSTITUTION and their oath they swore to defend, protect and uphold the CONSTITUTION binds them to not be able to violate your RIGHTS, though in practice often times this is not the case because We The People have allowed this and have become fearful of our Govt, they need to be fearful of us! Don't let any of them get away with it! EXERCISE your RIGHT to be left ALONE! The best way we can take back LIBERTY is to begin from the "bottom up" rather than from the top down, starting with ourCOUNTIES with the SHERIFF and our local leaders reminding them of their oath of office, because Washington DC is a lost cause, that's how we can defend against a tyrannical out of control and vastly oversized Federal Govt dictatorship, Military Industrial Complex and the rising Police State who are trying to control and micro manage every little detail and aspect of your life from cradle to grave through their technological enslavement control grid! Do you call that FREEDOM??. The New World Order is here right now folks, right in front of your eyes! Lets take back our Counties and the States and tell the Feds to "kiss off!" Then we can once again have in AMERICA a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC not a democracy, and have a land of LIBERTY and stop practicing all 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist...to-Planks.html style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #5b5b5b" which we have been doing in America as far back as 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. Do your research if you don't believe we are practicing all 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto then compare it to the system we have today, you'll be shocked!THE SHERIFF IS THE HIGHEST LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL IN YOUR COUNTY and the only Lawman who is an elected officialthereforeinform him of his upmost duty to protect the Citizens of his County from out of control State and Federal Government READ these 2 websites to learn just how to imform your SHERIFF and get him to do his duty to protect the IN-ALIENABLE RIGHTS of his COUNTYhttp://sheriffmack.com/ style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #5b5b5b" andhttp://jackmclamb.community.officelive.com/aidandabetnewsletter.aspx for the most effective way to bring back your local county to a Republican form of govt restoring LIBERTY as established in our CONSTITUTION. Remember, a "democracy" is 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding on who to have for lunch, or where 51% get to vote away the rights of the 49%! AMERICA was established as a REPUBLIC, NOT A democracy. A REPUBLIC protects the RIGHTS of the individual from the "majority." The Sheriff is the highest Law Enforcement Official in the County and has the authority and power to defend the Citizens of his County against all agencies of the Federal Govt that means he can even kick the Feds out of the county like the IRS, FBI FCC ATF FEMA etc and all of those other UN-Constitutional alphabet soup agencies so remind your Sheriff of his lawful duties because many of them are not fully aware of their power and duty to the Citizens of his County! Have your Sheriff actually ENFORCE ALL of the BILL OF RIGHTS & CONSTITUTION in your County! NO LAW IS BROKEN IF NO PARTY IS INJURED! So stop allowing your public servants from prosecuting you with charges for "victimless crimes" it is your RIGHT to do with your body and with your property as you please WITHOUT limitation as long as you do not infringe upon anyone elses RIGHTS! Anything less than that is not FREEDOM and LIBERTY! Most of the laws enacted are not for safety they are just created for revenue, don't believe me, then do your research "follow the money!" You will find that most of what your Govt does is UN-CONSTITUTIONAL, therefore UNLAWFUL if it is not congruent with the BILL OF RIGHTS & CONSTITUTION! Your government wants you to go back to sleep and believe that all is well, that things aren't that bad and that they will take care of you, if you follow that through to it's ultimate conclusion you truly will wake up soon a slave on the global plantation!! WAKE UP NOW while we still have that small window of opportunity! It's your CONSTITUTION and my CONSTITUTION so defend it because if you don't then it's just a "G** damn piece of paper" (George W. Bush) yeah he's right even though when he said it he was not meaning it in the same context as me, your CONSTITUTION cannot do anything for you by itself, if you stand on the railway tracks when a train is coming with a copy of the CONSTITUTION in your hands is your CONSTITUTION going to save you? No!! Of course not so you have to fight yourself for what it stands for! Then at the same time lets take back our states by contacting your state senator and state representative to sponsor a similiar resolution to the example that New Hampshire is doing, SPREAD THE WORD QUICKLY tell everyone you know to do the same thing for taking back our FREEDOM & LIBERTY beginning with your own County and your State!
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican “IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Bump
    Eh?
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican “IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Have any Montana guns been made yet?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Have any Montana guns been made yet?
    We have several companies that have been making guns for sometime here in Montana.

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