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Thread: Quiz Time - Concealed Weapon/Firearm in a Vehicle ?

  1. #1
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    First the issue:

    A routine traffic stop led to the arrest of twoVernon Parish residents on drug charges.
    Leesvillepolice officers initiated a traffic stop for a seatbelt violation on April 14, at approximately 6 p.m. which led to the arrest of the two vehicle occupants.
    As officers approached the vehicle, they detected the odor of marijuana emitting from the vehicle. Officers also noticed a revolver and an assault rifle in the vehicle. As officers searched the vehicle, they found a plastic bag containing approximately 229 grams of marijuana which has a street value of approximately $700.
    John Doe, 21, of Pitkin, was arrested on charges of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute and possession of a firearm by a felon. 
    John Doe Jr., 23, of Leesville, was also arrested on a seat belt violation, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute and possession of a firearm by a felon. 


    As of Now;

    John Doe Jr. is taking the charge for the dope.

    John Doe is taking the charge of "Illegal Possesion of Concealed Firearm". For having his SKS in his backseat, condition 1, with a 30 round clip. According to the charge slip they gave him when he made bail.

    Is there such a charge ?

    I've read over the following laws that pertain to Firearms/Concealment and Transportation. From what I see there's no such thing as a Concealed firearm in your vehicle. I'm almost 100% positive, just wanting some more eyes to look at it.

    NOW ! I know that LE can chain link charges together like, if the first charge is true (possession of marijuana with intent to distribute) then the next is also true (possession of a concealed firearm by a felon).

    Basically, if you drop the 'possession of marijuana with intent to distribute' charge, than the firearm charge DOES NOT APPLY, since neither one of them are convicted felons.

    Law enforcement knows how to trump/chain link these charges together.

    So LE told John Doe that the Dope charges would be dropped in court, b/c he didn't know. John Doe jr is taking the rap for that. So wouldn't that also Drop the Weapons Charge ?

    I say he should let them charge him with the concealed firearms charge, and let his lawyer destroy that charge in the courtroom. no ?

    Thanks for the help !




    RS 14:95
    Illegal carrying of weapons


    A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:

    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person; or

    (2) The ownership, possession, custody or use of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used as a dangerous weapon, at any time by an enemy alien; or

    (3) The ownership, possession, custody or use of any tools, or dynamite, or nitroglycerine, or explosives, or other instrumentality customarily used by thieves or burglars at any time by any person with the intent to commit a crime; or

    (4) The manufacture, ownership, possession, custody or use of any switchblade knife, spring knife or other knife or similar instrument having a blade which may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch or similar contrivance.

    (5)(a) The intentional possession or use by any person of a dangerous weapon on a school campus during regular school hours or on a school bus. "School" means any elementary, secondary, high school, or vo-tech school in this state and "campus" means all facilities and property within the boundary of the school property. "School bus" means any motor bus being used to transport children to and from school or in connection with school activities.

    (b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply to:

    (i) A peace officer as defined by R.S. 14:30(B) in the performance of his official duties.

    (ii) A school official or employee acting during the normal course of his employment or a student acting under the direction of such school official or employee.

    (iii) Any person having the written permission of the principal or school board and engaged in competition or in marksmanship or safety instruction.

    B.(1) Whoever commits the crime of illegal carrying of weapons shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

    (2) Whoever commits the crime of illegal carrying of weapons with any firearm used in the commission of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B), shall be fined not more than two thousand dollars, or imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not less than one year nor more than two years, or both. Any sentence issued pursuant to the provisions of this Paragraph and any sentence issued pursuant to a violation of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B) shall be served consecutively.

    C. On a second conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than five years.

    D. On third and subsequent convictions, the offender shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than ten years without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence.

    E. If the offender uses, possesses, or has under his immediate control any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence or while in the possession of or during the sale or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, the offender shall be fined not more than ten thousand dollars and imprisoned at hard labor for not less than five nor more than ten years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than twenty years nor more than thirty years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

    F. The enhanced penalty upon second, third, and subsequent convictions shall not be applicable in cases where more than five years have elapsed since the expiration of the maximum sentence, or sentences, of the previous conviction or convictions, and the time of the commission of the last offense for which he has been convicted; the sentence to be imposed in such event shall be the same as may be imposed upon a first conviction.

    G.(1) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to sheriffs and their deputies, state and city police, constables and town marshals, or persons vested with police power when in the actual discharge of official duties. These provisions shall not apply to sheriffs and their deputies and state and city police who are not actually discharging their official duties, provided that such persons are full time, active, and certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have on their persons valid identification as duly commissioned law enforcement officers.

    (2) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who is retired from full-time active law enforcement service with at least twelve years service upon retirement, nor shall it apply to any enforcement officer of the office of state parks, in the Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism who is retired from active duty as an enforcement officer, provided that such retired officers have on their persons valid identification as retired law enforcement officers, which identification shall be provided by the entity which employed the officer prior to his or her public retirement. The retired law enforcement officer must be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such qualification. This exception shall not apply to such officers who are medically retired based upon any mental impairment.

    (3)(a) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to active or retired reserve or auxiliary law enforcement officers qualified annually by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and who have on their person valid identification as active or retired reserve law or auxiliary municipal police officers. The active or retired reserve or auxiliary municipal police officer shall be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such certification.

    (b) For the purposes of this Paragraph, a reserve or auxiliary municipal police officer shall be defined as a volunteer, non-regular, sworn member of a law enforcement agency who serves with or without compensation and has regular police powers while functioning as such agency's representative, and who participates on a regular basis in agency activities including, but not limited to those pertaining to crime prevention or control, and the preservation of the peace and enforcement of the law.

    H. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit active justices or judges of the supreme court, courts of appeal, district courts, parish courts, juvenile courts, family courts, city courts, and traffic courts, constables, coroners, district attorneys and designated assistant district attorneys, United States attorneys and assistant United States attorneys and investigators, and justices of the peace from possessing and concealing a handgun on their person when the justice or judge, constable, coroner, district attorneys and designated assistant district attorneys, United States attorneys and assistant United States attorneys and investigators, or justices of the peace are certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training.

    I. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the carrying of a concealed handgun by a person who is a college or university police officer under the provisions of R.S. 17:1805 and who is carrying a concealed handgun in accordance with the provisions of that statute.

    J. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the ownership of rescue knives by commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the carrying of rescue knives by commissioned full-time law enforcement officers who are in the actual discharge of their official duties. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the sale of rescue knives to commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the ownership or possession of rescue knives by merchants who own or possess the knives solely as inventory to be offered for sale to commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. As used in this Subsection, a "rescue knife" is a folding knife, which can be readily and easily opened with one hand and which has at least one blade which is designed to be used to free individuals who are trapped by automobile seat belts, or at least one blade which is designed for a similar purpose. No blade of a rescue knife shall exceed five inches in length.

    K.(1) The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit a retired justice or judge of the supreme court, courts of appeal, district courts, parish courts, juvenile courts, family courts, and city courts from possessing and concealing a handgun on their person provided that such retired justice or judge is certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and has on their person valid identification showing proof of their status as a retired justice or judge.

    (2) The retired justice or judge shall be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such certification. However, this Subsection shall not apply to a retired justice or judge who is medically retired based upon any mental impairment.

    Amended by Acts 1956, No. 345, §1; Acts 1958, No. 21, §1; Acts 1958, No. 379, §§1, 3; Acts 1968, No. 647, §1; Acts 1975, No. 492, §1; Acts 1986, No. 38, §1; Acts 1992, No. 1017, §1; Acts 1993, No. 636, §1; Acts 1993, No. 844, §1; Acts 1994, 3rd Ex. Sess., No. 143, §1; Acts 1995, No. 636, §1; Acts 1995, No. 930, §1; Acts 1995, No. 1195, §1; Acts 1995, No. 1199, §1; Acts 1997, No. 508, §1; Acts 1997, No. 611, §1; Acts 1997, No. 1064, §1; Acts 1999, No. 738, §1; Acts 1999, No. 924, §1; Acts 1999, No. 953, §1; Acts 2003, No. 608, §1; Acts 2003, No. 766, §1; Acts 2006, No. 515, §1; Acts 2006, No. 589, §1; Acts 2008, No. 172, §1.





    RS 14:95.1
    §95.1.
    Possession of firearm or carrying concealed weapon by a person convicted of certain felonies


    A. It is unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B) which is a felony or simple burglary, burglary of a pharmacy, burglary of an inhabited dwelling, unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling, felony illegal use of weapons or dangerous instrumentalities, manufacture or possession of a delayed action incendiary device, manufacture or possession of a bomb, or any violation of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law which is a felony, or any crime which is defined as a sex offense in R.S. 15:541, or any crime defined as an attempt to commit one of the above-enumerated offenses under the laws of this state, or who has been convicted under the laws of any other state or of the United States or of any foreign government or country of a crime which, if committed in this state, would be one of the above-enumerated crimes, to possess a firearm or carry a concealed weapon.

    B. Whoever is found guilty of violating the provisions of this Section shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than ten nor more than fifteen years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence and be fined not less than one thousand dollars nor more than five thousand dollars.

    C. Except as otherwise specifically provided, this Section shall not apply to the following cases:

    (1) The provisions of this Section prohibiting the possession of firearms and carrying concealed weapons by persons who have been convicted of certain felonies shall not apply to any person who has not been convicted of any felony for a period of ten years from the date of completion of sentence, probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

    (2) Upon completion of sentence, probation, parole, or suspension of sentence the convicted felon shall have the right to apply to the sheriff of the parish in which he resides, or in the case of Orleans Parish the superintendent of police, for a permit to possess firearms. The felon shall be entitled to possess the firearm upon the issuing of the permit.

    (3) The sheriff or superintendent of police, as the case may be, shall immediately notify the Department of Public Safety, in writing, of the issuance of each permit granted under this Section.

    Added by Acts 1975, No. 492, §2. Amended by Acts 1980, No. 279, §1; Acts 1985, No. 947, §1; Acts 1990, No. 328, §1; Acts 1992, No. 403, §1; Acts 1994, 3rd Ex. Sess., No. 28, §1; Acts 1995, No. 987, §1; Acts 2003, No. 674, §1.


    RS 15:1405.2 - Possession of firearms, ammunition, and dangerous weapons by criminal street gangs; forfeiture
    §1405.2. Possession of firearms, ammunition, and dangerous weapons by criminal street gangs; forfeiture

    A. Any firearm, ammunition to be used in a firearm, or dangerous weapon in the possession of a member of a criminal street gang as defined by R.S. 15:1404, may be seized by any law enforcement agency or peace officer, when the law enforcement agency or peace officer reasonably believes that the firearm, ammunition to be used in a firearm, or dangerous weapon is or will be used in the commission of a pattern of criminal gang activity.

    B. The district attorney shall initiate, in a civil action, forfeiture proceedings by petition in the district courts as to any property seized pursuant to the provisions of this Section within ninety days of seizure. The district attorney shall provide notice of the filing of the petition to those members of the gang who become known to law enforcement officials as a result of the seizure and any related arrests, and to any person learned by law enforcement officials to be the owner of any of the property involved. After initial notice of the filing of the petition, the court shall assure that all persons so notified continue to receive notice of all subsequent proceedings related to the property.

    C. Any person who claims an interest in any seized property shall, in order to assert a claim that the property should not be forfeited, file a notice with the court, without necessity of paying costs, of the intent to establish either of the following:

    (1) That the persons asserting the claim did not know and could not have known of its use in the commission of a pattern of criminal gang activity.

    (2) That the law enforcement officer lacked the requisite reasonable belief that the property was or would be used in the commission of a pattern of criminal gang activity.

    D. In any hearings held and determinations made pursuant to this Section, the court may receive and consider, in making any determination of reasonable cause, all evidence admissible in determining reasonable cause at a preliminary hearing or by a judge pursuant to C.Cr.P. Art. 162 together with inferences therefrom.

    E. An acquittal or dismissal in a criminal proceeding shall not preclude civil proceedings under this Section; however, for good cause shown, on motion by the district attorney, the court may stay civil forfeiture proceedings during the criminal trial for a related criminal indictment or information alleging a violation of this Section. Such a stay shall not be available pending an appeal.

    F. Except as otherwise provided by this Section, all proceedings hereunder shall be governed by the provisions of the Louisiana Code of Civil Procedure. Additionally, any action under the provisions of the Section may be consolidated with any other action or proceeding pursuant to the Section relating to the same property on motion of the district attorney.

    G. The issue shall be determined by the court alone, and the hearing on the claim shall be held within sixty days after service of the petition unless continued for good cause. The district attorney shall have the initial burden of showing the existence of probable cause for forfeiture of the property. If the state shows probable cause, the claimant has the burden of showing by a preponderance of the evidence that the claimant's interest in the property is not subject to forfeiture.

    H. Any person who asserts a successful claim in accordance with Subsection C of this Section, shall be awarded the seized property by the court. All property as to which no claim is filed, or as to which no successful claim is made, may be destroyed, sold at a private sale, retained for use by the seizing agency, or transferred without charge to any law enforcement agency of the state for use by it.

    Acts 1993, No. 439, §1.







    RS 32:292.1
    Transportation and storage of firearms in privately owned motor vehicles


    A. Except as provided in Subsection D of this Section, a person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or store such firearm in a locked, privately-owned motor vehicle in any parking lot, parking garage, or other designated parking area.

    B. No property owner, tenant, public or private employer, or business entity or their agent or employee shall be liable in any civil action for damages resulting from or arising out of an occurrence involving a firearm transported or stored pursuant to this Section, other than for a violation of Subsection C of this Section.

    C. No property owner, tenant, public or private employer, or business entity shall prohibit any person from transporting or storing a firearm pursuant to Subsection A of this Section. However, nothing in this Section shall prohibit an employer or business entity from adopting policies specifying that firearms stored in locked, privately-owned motor vehicles on property controlled by an employer or business entity be hidden from plain view or within a locked case or container within the vehicle.

    D. This Section shall not apply to:

    (1) Any property where the possession of firearms is prohibited under state or federal law.

    (2) Any vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his employment, except for those employees who are required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of their duties.

    (3) Any vehicle on property controlled by a public or private employer or business entity if access is restricted or limited through the use of a fence, gate, security station, signage, or other means of restricting or limiting general public access onto the parking area, and if one of the following conditions applies:

    (a) The employer or business entity provides facilities for the temporary storage of unloaded firearms.

    (b) The employer or business entity provides an alternative parking area reasonably close to the main parking area in which employees and other persons may transport or store firearms in locked, privately-owned motor vehicles.

    Acts 2008, No. 684, §1.







  2. #2
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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    to answer your first question, the answer is "no."
    Wanna have some fun?
    Call the arresting agency, ask for the EXACT statute under which he was charged.
    Please let us know.
    Thanks
    I thought about that, but I don't want to bring any extra attention to what might be their mistake.

    I know these two young men, they aren't DEALERS with assualt rifles.

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    First RS 32:292.1 has nothing to do with any of this.

    Did anyone have the gun concealed on their person? If you have a CHP and have the gun concealed on you you must tell the LEO.

    How did he get a gun charge? Is either one a convicted felon? I don't think the sks being loaded has anything to do with it since your gun can be loaded in you car.

    I've read before about gun charges and dope going together. Seems like if you're going to have illegal drugs don't carry guns.

    Is this the whole story?

    One thing they should learn if you are going to ride around with illegal dope in your car wear your seatbelt.




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    There's no charge as you have listed it, but if they didn't have a CHP, they might be charged with "Illegal Carrying of Weapons." Although we generally talk about a car being an extension of your home and we say that you can carry any way you like at home, a strict reading of RS 14:95 does not seem to make that exception.

    Since Article 1, Section 11 of the state constitution allows the Legislature to regulate Concealed Carry, there's an outside chance that such a charge might stick if the weapon was actually concealed on his person and he did not have a valid CHP. If he had a valid CHP and did not reveal that he was carrying concealed, I think all that happens is he loses his CHP, IIRC.

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    Louisiana has an interesting marijuana law. Instead of distinguishing by quantity, as most states do, they distinguish by intent.

    Possession of any amount for distribution is a felony. Likewise, possession of any amount for personal use is a misdemeanor.

    The residue in a one-hitter is a felony is you're distributing, but when Willie Nelson was caught with several pounds in his tour bus and claimed it was for personal use (quite believable!), he only got a misdemeanor ticket.

    (Edit: it was a pound and a half.)


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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Correct me if this isn't totally accurate, but they cannot just make up charges. When booked, it's got to be according to a specific statute, by number, not some "made up on the spot, sounds good to me" stuff.
    If you're in your vehicle, you CAN conceal a weapon on your person. Once you EXIT the vehicle, well, whole 'nuther story.
    While 14:95 doesn't mention it specifically, it can't (IMHO) possibly apply INSIDE your car.
    Since none of us have the complete story, it's hard to tell what's what.
    You are correct about having to list the specific RS violation alleged.

    Until recently, I thought as you did that you could carry concealed without a permit in your own home or in your car. However, a lawyer on another board posted some shockingly good arguments to the effect that the law doesn't actually say that, even though most people generally assume that. If I have time later, I'll find his post and paste it here, but I'm about to leave and won't be able to do anything on the computer until Sunday afternoon, most likely.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Correct me if this isn't totally accurate, but they cannot just make up charges. When booked, it's got to be according to a specific statute, by number, not some "made up on the spot, sounds good to me" stuff.
    If you're in your vehicle, you CAN conceal a weapon on your person. Once you EXIT the vehicle, well, whole 'nuther story.
    While 14:95 doesn't mention it specifically, it can't (IMHO) possibly apply INSIDE your car.
    Since none of us have the complete story, it's hard to tell what's what.
    Roger on having the whole story.

    One lesson is if you're a doper you better not speed and have all your lights working.

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    What more of the story do you need to know ?





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    OK, I finally found the thread about this topic on Bayoushooter.com. The poster who explained it is a lawyer whose screen name is Morgan Allison (this is the same name as one of the lawyers listed on LouisianaCarry's list of pro-gun lawyers).

    He cited a case, State v. Snoddy, 389 So.2d 377 (La., 1980), and described it as indirectly indicating that CC without a permit in one's home or car would violate RS 14:95.

    The thread is linked below; it started out as a question about carrying at one's workplace, but evolved (as threads often do). Post #29 on page 3 gives the most detail, but the thread is worth reading from the beginning.

    http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/s...A95&page=3

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    Update:

    They were not charged with "possesion wiht intent" only possesion of marijuana.

    In Jail John Doe Jr signed confession stating that it was HIS weed, and John Doe had NO KNOWLEDGE of it.

    Which leaves me thinking OBVIOUSLY, that if John Doe has "NO Possesion charge against him, then the Weapons Charge will also be dropped.

    You guys give up ?

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    RS 14:95

    E. If the offender uses, possesses, or has under his immediate control any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence or while in the possession of or during the sale or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, the offender shall be fined not more than ten thousand dollars and imprisoned at hard labor for not less than five nor more than ten years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than twenty years nor more than thirty years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

    "If the offender possesses any firearm while in the possession of a controlled dangerous substance shall be fined and imprisoned...."

    This is the only law I see that may have been broken. Being that I don't know a whole lot about drug laws, is marijuana "a controlled dangerous substance"?

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    rmansu2 wrote:
    RS 14:95

    E. If the offender uses, possesses, or has under his immediate control any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence or while in the possession of or during the sale or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, the offender shall be fined not more than ten thousand dollars and imprisoned at hard labor for not less than five nor more than ten years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than twenty years nor more than thirty years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

    "If the offender possesses any firearm while in the possession of a controlled dangerous substance shall be fined and imprisoned...."

    This is the only law I see that may have been broken. Being that I don't know a whole lot about drug laws, is marijuana "a controlled dangerous substance"?
    Your right. But John Doe Jr has signed the confession for the weed being his.

    Therefore, John Doe can no longer be charged with any type of weapons charge.

    From my understanding.




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    "As officers approached the vehicle, they detected the odor of marijuana emitting from the vehicle."

    "In Jail John Doe Jr signed confession stating that it was HIS weed, and John Doe had NO KNOWLEDGE of it."

    Inconsistent story

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    This may also work like the open container law. If your driving and the passenger has an open beer in the cab you can still get the ticket. If John Doe doesn't get a possession charge and the firearm is his then no firearm charge. But I'm no attorney.

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    ijusam wrote:
    "As officers approached the vehicle, they detected the odor of marijuana emitting from the vehicle."

    "In Jail John Doe Jr signed confession stating that it was HIS weed, and John Doe had NO KNOWLEDGE of it."

    Inconsistent story
    It's only inconsistent within the media story. Just like them saying they were Drug Dealers b/c they had over an ounce. I'm no pot head, but I know some dudes that smoke 7 to 8 pounds a week easy ! That's well over 100 ounces of personal use.

    Neither one of them were smoking at the time of the stop, or anytimethat entire DAY. (Tueasday).I can't go too much further do to legal reasons.

    Eitherway, I'm almost positive the LEO's knew that the John Doe Jr., was in the car. John Doe Jr, has already had TWO strikes of possession against him. So the LEO's made a traffic stop, supposedly smelt weed smoke, and then searched the car and occupants. This is also why John Doe JR took the rap for the weed charge in jail and signed the paper.









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    Looks like John Sr. needs to let John Jr. walk if he's going to be a doper.

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    charlie12 wrote:
    Looks like John Sr. needs to let John Jr. walk if he's going to be a doper.
    Were not talking morals here.

    Eitherway, I look for Weed to become legal this century.

    Especially with polls like this all saying the same thing.

    http://www.timepolls.com/hppolls/arc...sults_328.html

    Should weed be legal, A resounding "YES".

    Even though I don't do any drugs, nor do I drink regularly and have just quit smoking after 16 years.

    I think Cigarettes have far worse repercussions than marijuana.

    Back on topic please....

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