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Thread: Open Carry in banks

  1. #1
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    I wanted to get this down before I forgot all the details.

    First, I want to say that the manager, Lon, was very polite and courteous when he approached me.

    I bank at a credit union, whose local office is actually inside of one of our local grocery stores. I have open carried in there (both in the bank and in the store) several times in the past without any questions. However, today was a little different.

    I was at the counter taking care of some business when Lon came to counter and asked me if I was a police officer. I answered that no I was not. He then stated that federal law says that I cannot carry a firearm into a bank. I told him that as far as I know, that was not the case, and that open carry was legal in Idaho. He again said that federal law says that I can't have a firearm in the bank, and that he felt uncomfortable and a little nervous that I had it on. He asked that in the future I not carry my gun into the bank. I told him that I had actually open carried into the bank several times in the past and no one had said anything, but that I would not do so in the future. He joked that "as long as you don't use it". I said only on someone who tries to rob you and he said "in that case I might enlist your help". (I know, why ask me not to carry then...I will get to that).

    After I finished my business, I went to Lon's office and asked if I could speak to him. He thought I wanted to talk about a loan application I had put in before. I told him that I was not trying to cause any conflict or trouble with him, but could he tell me specifically which federal law stated that I couldn't carry in the bank? He then admitted that as far as he knew there was no specific law against it, but that it made people feel uncomfortable.

    He then related a story to me...apparently someone in the past (don't know when) had open carried into the Roseauer's, the store where the bank is located, and been "taunting" his firearm (I think he meant flaunting). That person then came into the bank and Lon asked him to leave. He also mentioned to me that he had been in banking in Oregon for 25 years and had been robbed twice.

    So as I see it, there are a combination of factors at work here. First, there is the fact that while working in the banking industry, Lon has been robbed twice. He is understandably nervous about people with guns in his bank. I can sympathize with him and how he feels.

    The second factor at work here is the behavior of this unknown person who came into the store and bank acting like an a-- with a gun on his hip. Obviously I don't have to tell you all how that makes the rest of us look. I don't know who this person is, or when this situation occurred, but thanks to this unknown jacka--, and the behavior of certain BG's, we now have a person who sees the rest of us as a potential threat at worst, and a behavior problem at least.

    SO anyway, there is my story. This is the first time while OC'ing in Moscow in the past year that I have had ANY contact regarding this issue.

    And to answer the question before it is asked, no, I will not find another bank or take my business elsewhere. I joined this credit union last year after my divorce and after my previous bank caused me several problems with my account and my ex-wife's account. I am happy with the service I have received from the credit union, and they have approved me for a vehicle loan that, based on my credit history, a bank would have denied. So I will not be changing banks. I will do as asked and not wear my weapon into the bank (until I get my concealed permit that is...!! hehe).

    Dave

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    thefirststrike wrote:
    I wanted to get this down before I forgot all the details.

    First, I want to say that the manager, Lon, was very polite and courteous when he approached me.

    I bank at a credit union, whose local office is actually inside of one of our local grocery stores. I have open carried in there (both in the bank and in the store) several times in the past without any questions. However, today was a little different.

    I was at the counter taking care of some business when Lon came to counter and asked me if I was a police officer. I answered that no I was not. He then stated that federal law says that I cannot carry a firearm into a bank. I told him that as far as I know, that was not the case, and that open carry was legal in Idaho. He again said that federal law says that I can't have a firearm in the bank, and that he felt uncomfortable and a little nervous that I had it on. He asked that in the future I not carry my gun into the bank. I told him that I had actually open carried into the bank several times in the past and no one had said anything, but that I would not do so in the future. He joked that "as long as you don't use it". I said only on someone who tries to rob you and he said "in that case I might enlist your help". (I know, why ask me not to carry then...I will get to that).

    After I finished my business, I went to Lon's office and asked if I could speak to him. He thought I wanted to talk about a loan application I had put in before. I told him that I was not trying to cause any conflict or trouble with him, but could he tell me specifically which federal law stated that I couldn't carry in the bank? He then admitted that as far as he knew there was no specific law against it, but that it made people feel uncomfortable.

    He then related a story to me...apparently someone in the past (don't know when) had open carried into the Roseauer's, the store where the bank is located, and been "taunting" his firearm (I think he meant flaunting). That person then came into the bank and Lon asked him to leave. He also mentioned to me that he had been in banking in Oregon for 25 years and had been robbed twice.

    So as I see it, there are a combination of factors at work here. First, there is the fact that while working in the banking industry, Lon has been robbed twice. He is understandably nervous about people with guns in his bank. I can sympathize with him and how he feels.

    The second factor at work here is the behavior of this unknown person who came into the store and bank acting like an a-- with a gun on his hip. Obviously I don't have to tell you all how that makes the rest of us look. I don't know who this person is, or when this situation occurred, but thanks to this unknown jacka--, and the behavior of certain BG's, we now have a person who sees the rest of us as a potential threat at worst, and a behavior problem at least.

    SO anyway, there is my story. This is the first time while OC'ing in Moscow in the past year that I have had ANY contact regarding this issue.

    And to answer the question before it is asked, no, I will not find another bank or take my business elsewhere. I joined this credit union last year after my divorce and after my previous bank caused me several problems with my account and my ex-wife's account. I am happy with the service I have received from the credit union, and they have approved me for a vehicle loan that, based on my credit history, a bank would have denied. So I will not be changing banks. I will do as asked and not wear my weapon into the bank (until I get my concealed permit that is...!! hehe).

    Dave
    The biggest reason I would look for a different Credit Union is because the manager flat out lied to you. There is no such federal law prohibiting carry in a bank or credit union and he knew it. He was trying to BS you into believing something that isn't true. Not allowing me to carry is the second reason.

    Lon is just a liberal weenie hopolophobe who is unwilling to admit it and would rather make excuses. After the lie about the federal law I wouldn't believe his other BS story either.

    Sorry, but those not willing to stand up for their rights don't deserve them.


  3. #3
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    rpyne,

    Wow, you figured out what Ron was just from that small description in my post? That's incredible!! You must be like...God!!

    Maybe it is different for you where you live, but here we only have about 1/2 dozen banks, and I have already been a customer at 4 of them, not including the credit union, while I was still married and my ex-wife was running up overdraft charges for bad checks. So I needed to find a better option than the bank that charged $169.00 of her after divorce charges to my account because she didn't pay them (and it's perfectly legal, not a thing I can do about it). And like I said, they will give me a car loan with my bad credit where no one else will.

    As for him lying, as I already explained, he later admitted to me that he had, and that he didn't in fact know if there was any such law or not. I guess you didn't read that far huh? Or maybe it went right over your head. Maybe his other story is BS, but maybe not. I don't know, and frankly I don't really care.

    As for your comment that those who don't exercise their rights don't deserve them, thanks for the support (sarcasm there in case you didn't get that)!! I do OC everywhere else around town, but I am willing to make this concession, FOR NOW, because I need this credit union and what they can do for me, where other regular banks can not or will not. This is a pretty small town, and if I get asked to leave a bank or grocery store or any other business here, there aren't that many other places I can go. Maybe it is easier for you, maybe you have more choices, but so far since my divorce, this credit union has been very good for my finances and has helped me in several other ways, so I will stick with them for now.

    The only reason I posted this story is because it is the first time in almost a year of OC'ing that I have had anyone say anything about it. It was basically for information purposes, not for you or anyone else to question my dedication to my 2nd Amendment rights or infer that I was somehow not as much of a "man' as you for choosing to continue to do business there.

    I guess you are just a better person than I am, and more dedicated to your rights than I am to mine, since I didn't handle it the way YOU would (there is that sarcasm again)! I just love "backseat drivers" and the "I would have done this..." crowd, so easy for you to judge others.

    Dave

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    thefirststrike wrote:
    rpyne,

    Wow, you figured out what Ron was just from that small description in my post? That's incredible!! You must be like...God!!

    Maybe it is different for you where you live, but here we only have about 1/2 dozen banks, and I have already been a customer at 4 of them, not including the credit union, ...

    As for him lying, as I already explained, he later admitted to me that he had, and that he didn't in fact know if there was any such law or not. I guess you didn't read that far huh? Or maybe it went right over your head. Maybe his other story is BS, but maybe not. I don't know, and frankly I don't really care.

    As for your comment that those who don't exercise their rights don't deserve them, thanks for the support ...
    First, according to your description of what he said, he admitted to 1) lying to you and 2) being a hopolophobe. The observation of him being a liberal weenie comes from his actions of trying to use a non-existent federal law to avoid admitting his own irrational fear of guns (hopolophobia) and to bully you into giving in to his unfounded wishes.

    Yes, I did read the part where he admitted lying to you, that was the point, he lied to you and even admitted that he lied when you caught him in the act.

    I am very familiar with Moscow, Idaho. I grew up in south central Idaho, I know all about living in a small town. I have lived in towns much smaller than Moscow much of my life.

    I also know what it is to go through a nasty divorce. Been there, done that, been through all the associated financial hassles. I have spent more than 20 years trying to get back on top financially. I have also spent more than 20 years on the front lines of the battle over the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The biggest reason we have to fight so hard is because too many people are willing to just ignore the violation of their rights. I know because I was one of them 30 years ago.

  5. #5
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    rpyne wrote:
    thefirststrike wrote:
    rpyne,

    Wow, you figured out what Ron was just from that small description in my post? That's incredible!! You must be like...God!!

    Maybe it is different for you where you live, but here we only have about 1/2 dozen banks, and I have already been a customer at 4 of them, not including the credit union, ...

    As for him lying, as I already explained, he later admitted to me that he had, and that he didn't in fact know if there was any such law or not. I guess you didn't read that far huh? Or maybe it went right over your head. Maybe his other story is BS, but maybe not. I don't know, and frankly I don't really care.

    As for your comment that those who don't exercise their rights don't deserve them, thanks for the support ...
    First, according to your description of what he said, he admitted to 1) lying to you and 2) being a hopolophobe. The observation of him being a liberal weenie comes from his actions of trying to use a non-existent federal law to avoid admitting his own irrational fear of guns (hopolophobia) and to bully you into giving in to his unfounded wishes.

    Yes, I did read the part where he admitted lying to you, that was the point, he lied to you and even admitted that he lied when you caught him in the act.

    I am very familiar with Moscow, Idaho. I grew up in south central Idaho, I know all about living in a small town. I have lived in towns much smaller than Moscow much of my life.

    I also know what it is to go through a nasty divorce. Been there, done that, been through all the associated financial hassles. I have spent more than 20 years trying to get back on top financially. I have also spent more than 20 years on the front lines of the battle over the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The biggest reason we have to fight so hard is because too many people are willing to just ignore the violation of their rights. I know because I was one of them 30 years ago.
    Well, whatever. I guess his having been robbed at gunpoint would understandably make him afraid of guns, but having never been in that circumstance, I can't say one way or the other. Unlike you however, I tend to take people at their word until I have reason not to. His having "lied" about the federal law claim doesn't make him a habitual liar or make him guilty of lying about the robberies.

    Regardless of that, based on the little bit of information I gave, YOU hardly have enough information to make such a snap judgement of him, or anyone else for that matter.

    If, as you indicate, you have "been there and done that" and have taken "20 years to get back on top financially", then I am sure you can understand how I might need the services of this credit union more than I need to OC my gun for the five or ten minutes I am in there. That is just an unfortunate fact of life. Obviously I hope that I will not find myself in a situation where I need it while I am there, but that can't be helped.

    As I said, I need the services that this credit union can offer me which a regular bank will not, so I will capitulate for the time being until a better solution (I acquire my CC permit, I get a better personal financial situation, I find another equally good bank) presents itself. If that means that YOU have to fight harder to protect MY rights, so sorry for the horrible imposition!

    You just seem to very antagonistic to people, such as myself, who don't live their lives the way you seem to think they should. It is always easier for someone to sit on the outside of a situation and say how other people goofed, armchair quarterback other people's actions from afar. You apparently think you know better how it should have been handled, but you have the luxury of not needing the services of this particular establishment, so you find it easy to judge me.

    Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities or colors your view of my dedication to my rights...I guess I will just have to live with your disappointment. I know that I am dedicated to my rights. Until my financial situation is such that I can actually afford to exercise them and take my business someplace else, I will have to leave the gun in the car. Sometimes circumstances make it difficult if not impossible to exercise those rights in every situation, and this is one of those situations.

    I am done with this discussion between us. I have neither the desire nor the obligation to continue to defend myself against your judgements.

    Have a nice day. I hope our conversation and encounters in other threads can be more cordial in the future, but if you are always this antagonistic, judgmental and self righteous then I doubt they will be.

    Dave

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    Dave,

    IIRC isn't the bank in discussion just a counter at the store or do they have a branch office in town? IMO the manager needs to man up a bit and get over this unreasonable fear of things that go bang. Esp, if you have proven yourself to be friendly and a non-threat.

    I do however respect him and you for actually having a conversation about the issue and coming to a, what I see as a reasonable solution for both parties. Much better than having MPD show up gun drawn.

    BTW, it may be time for a Moscow/Pullman OC dinner. See if the manager wants to go shooting sometime.

  7. #7
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    Vandal wrote:
    Dave,

    IIRC isn't the bank in discussion just a counter at the store or do they have a branch office in town? IMO the manager needs to man up a bit and get over this unreasonable fear of things that go bang. Esp, if you have proven yourself to be friendly and a non-threat.

    I do however respect him and you for actually having a conversation about the issue and coming to a, what I see as a reasonable solution for both parties. Much better than having MPD show up gun drawn.

    BTW, it may be time for a Moscow/Pullman OC dinner. See if the manager wants to go shooting sometime.
    It's the one in Roseauer's...I wouldn't say it is just a counter necessarily, but no outside branch in town.

    I know what you're saying about "manning up", but some people handle things like that better than others...maybe it just fried his nerves. Who knows what his past experiences have been or how he handles them? I would still like to try and win him over to letting me OC in there, but don't know how to approach it. Funny thing is I had already OC'ed in there probably 6-8 times, even with him present, and never a problem, guess he just didn't notice before.

    I have been waiting for an OC dinner, but I guess you have been too busy. We talked about it before remember? I am ready whenever you and anyone else are. Let's do it. Just give me a little bit of notice, and try for the weekend...remember I work nights during the week.

    Dave

    P.S. what does IIRC mean?

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    I have been swamped with work here at UI. I am thinking this weekend may be a good time.

    IIRC translates into english as If I remember correctly.

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    Thanks for the translation. I have seen that a few times but didn't know what it meant. I guess I am not up on the abbreviation slang.

    I figured you were all probably pretty busy with last minute school stuff, I remember how it was at the end of the quarter, always trying to catch up on things you put off or projects that aren't quite finished yet. NP.

    This weekend would be fine with me. Can you put it together with the other folks and let me know when and where?

    Dave

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    A house divided...

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    A letter to corporate will answer all your questions, do not rely on the manager, no matter how much you like him or the branch. I can tell you that Bank of America allows weapons in accordance with the state in which it is located.

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    Ironically I bank at the same Credit Union. Since I CC I haven't had to deal with Lon on this subject.

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    thefirststrike wrote:
    I guess his having been robbed at gunpoint would understandably make him afraid of guns, but having never been in that circumstance, I can't say one way or the other.
    There is nothing reasonable or understandable about this kind of fear. It's akin to being afraid of all black people or white people because the person who robbed you was of a certain color. Having been robbed at gunpoint, it would be irrational for me to now think that every gun I see is there to perpetrate a crime against me, or my own gun might jump out of my holster and bite me. We're dealing with people's emotions here, and debating laws and regulations with them probably won't help them come around. Somehow we need to touch that emotional side as well, and share why we carry, our own personal experience with defense, etc...let's face it, part of the reason we choose to carry is emotionally based too. There's nothing wrong with that so long as we recognize it.

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    I've been held up at gunpoint, jumped by a group of blacks, and shot. (3 different incidents) I'm neither afraid of guns or black people. His excuse doesn't work for me.

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    The Grand Pooh-Bah wrote:
    I've been held up at gunpoint, jumped by a group of blacks, and shot. (3 different incidents) I'm neither afraid of guns or black people. His excuse doesn't work for me.
    Oh I agree, I am just not in a position to argue the finer points with him right now. I will take this up with them (corporate) at a later date.

    Dave

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    First off let me clear any confusion as a Bank of America employee... GUNS ARE ALLOWED IN BANKS.

    A very common misconception is that because the $ in banks is FDIC protected that is a federal building. Not true... Banks are on privately owned property and are no different than a wall mart.

    My advice would be to call the corporate office of that credit union and verify what their policy is on firearms. If they dont allow them then yes go to a different bank. If the corp policy is to follow state law then have them give you that in writing or email and provide that information to the manager.

    One mistake you made was carrying in an area where you weren't quite sure of the laws, subsequently when you had to stand up for your 2a Rights you didn't sound like you knew them. The phrase well to my knowledge firearms are allowed in banks doesn't instill complete confidence in the manager. Nor does the phrases of well I've OC'd in here before and nobody said anything...

    Learn the laws/corporate policy's and then inform the management so they wont do it to the next guy.

    Hell you might just make another OC'er once they learn a little more.

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    Dave, here is the Idaho Statute, covered under concealed carry, where we cannot posses firearms. The list is very short.

    http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newi...d=180330002C.K

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    The above quoted law only deals with concealed carry. There is no where in Idaho law (except places covered under federal law like secure airport terminals) that bans carry in any place. Court houses are a little different; usually, the top judge makes that kind of decision, but I can find no written law in Idaho code covering where we can and can't carry openly.

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    Wells Fargo somewhere on Orchard or Overland was robbed today. Didn't get the whole story, saw the news walking out of the house. Now I did hear the reporter say the guy didn't show a gun, demanded money and walked out with some. Now if one of us was in there OCing, do you think he might have done the crime? I doubt it. He apparently didn't show a gun, as per the news report so he was scared probably, I am assuming, therefore didn't want confrontation and chances are wouldn't have robbed the bank and walked out because one of us was OCing in the bank.

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    jdgypsy wrote:
    Wells Fargo somewhere on Orchard or Overland was robbed today. Didn't get the whole story, saw the news walking out of the house. Now I did hear the reporter say the guy didn't show a gun, demanded money and walked out with some. Now if one of us was in there OCing, do you think he might have done the crime? I doubt it. He apparently didn't show a gun, as per the news report so he was scared probably, I am assuming, therefore didn't want confrontation and chances are wouldn't have robbed the bank and walked out because one of us was OCing in the bank.
    I agree with your logic for the most part. I don't want to paint myself as a target, but nothing says take me out first like a highly visible sidearm. Perhaps I watch too many movies, but if I were a BG, I would take out cops, guards, and anyone who was immediately threatening. Chances are that you're right though. Who wants to have a shoot out before you even get the money?

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    Interviews with criminals in the prison system have shed some interesting light on this subject. Most people who commit crimes like that are looking for an easy target and as little resistance as possible. Thats why banks get robbed and gun stores don't. They both have something valuable to take. One is willing to defend it with deadly force, the others are trained to give no resistance, and the criminals know it.

    Before I break my own "cite" rule, go check out a book at your library called "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Great incite to the human mind and a must read for anyone considering deadly force as an option.

    *EDITED PART* Now I can't remember if it was that book or "Criminal Mindset" lol

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