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Thread: Ordinances against open carry in Wyoming

  1. #1
    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Heres a list of the ones I could find, there could be more.

    If Pine Bluffs is going to be attacked for their ordinance, why aren't the rest of these?

    Cheyenne:

    http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=16266&sid=50

    9.24.040 Carrying concealed weapons--Carrying weapons openly with intent to inflict injury.


    No person shall wear or carry concealed any knife the blade of which exceeds four inches in length, any dirk, dagger, sword-in-cane, slingshot, revolver, pistol or any other dangerous or deadly weapon. No person shall openly wear or carry any such weapon or any combustible or explosive material with the intent or avowed purpose for injuring any person.

    (2001 In-house code § 30-54)



    [size=Lander][/size]

    [size=http://www.landerwyoming.org/pdf/city%20code%20book/TITLE%207.pdf][/size]

    [size=][/size]

    [size=7-2-5. Carrying a Deadly Weapon. ][/size][size=- ][/size]

    [size=(a) No person shall arm himself with any deadly weapon with the intent of injuring another. ][/size]

    (b) No person other than law enforcement officers or others authorized by law shall carry any deadly weapon into any premises where any malt or alcoholic beverages are sold or dispensed.



    Powell

    http://www.cityofpowell.com/assets/pdf/citycode/citycode_title09.pdf

    9.24.050 Weapons in licensed premises. It is unlawful for any person to

    carry any dangerous or deadly weapon in any bar, package liquor store, or other

    place where alcoholic beverages are sold or dispensed, including private clubs,

    regardless of whether such weapons are concealed or not. Provided that this chapter

    shall not apply to bona fide law enforcement personnel; nor shall it be construed to

    prevent the management of any such establishment from keeping a weapon on the

    property.



    Pine Bluffs

    8-115 (e)

    No person shall open wear, carry, or use any of the weapons listed in subsection (c) or any combustible or explosive material with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring any person.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

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    Because the town of Pine Bluffs employs law enforcement whom chooses to bend the rules and laws as they see fit, the other towns are able to apply common sense and read and interpret the law for what it is and what it truly means. Stop pointing the finger at other towns, when the real issue is that Pine Bluffs refuses to take the law off the books.

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    Here is what you wrote on Jan 24th 2009 about open carry in Cheyenne, seems like you had no problems with OC in CHEYENNE............

    I was in Cheyenne last week so that my wife could make a rather large deposit for the Girl Scouts, and I was open-carrying while on a motorcycle. I went to Wal-Mart, wandered around downtown, and went into a few convenience stores, and had 0 problems. I wonder if anyone even noticed... -MatieA


  4. #4
    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Ranger1 wrote:
    Here is what you wrote on Jan 24th 2009 about open carry in Cheyenne, seems like you had no problems with OC in CHEYENNE............

    I was in Cheyenne last week so that my wife could make a rather large deposit for the Girl Scouts, and I was open-carrying while on a motorcycle. I went to Wal-Mart, wandered around downtown, and went into a few convenience stores, and had 0 problems. I wonder if anyone even noticed... -MatieA
    I did not say that I had any problems, but it seems that while people are willing to blast Pine Bluffs for having an unconstitutional ordinance, they are unwilling to take on a bigger town. People claim that this is about unconstitutional ordinances in Pine, but Pine is not the only town with the same ordinance. So why not take the other towns to task for it also?

    Personally I think that this has gotten personal, and some people want to be able to say "look what I did!", when Pine rewrites their ordinances.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

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    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    I joined this forum looking for advice and help dealing with an issue, it appears I should have went elsewhere, and maybe I would have gotten real help, instead of being blasted by wanting to work with my town, instead of going to war against them.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

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    MatieA wrote:
    I joined this forum looking for advice and help dealing with an issue, it appears I should have went elsewhere, and maybe I would have gotten real help, instead of being blasted by wanting to work with my town, instead of going to war against them.
    Just remember you started it, now you are looking for a out with all the political pressure put on you by "friends" in your small town. Now you are trying to divert pressure from pine bluff and yourself by pointing fingers at other towns.

    What did you expect from your actions in the 1st place.



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    MatieA wrote:
    I joined this forum looking for advice and help dealing with an issue, it appears I should have went elsewhere, and maybe I would have gotten real help, instead of being blasted by wanting to work with my town, instead of going to war against them.
    MatieA, it seems like you are beginning to take this personally and that it totally unnecessary. If anything, you should be very unhappy with your town leadership and should be putting your pressure on them to get moving with taking care of business at the next town meeting.

    We are with you not against you. I assume you do want the town to bring the local law in compliance with the constitution right? That is all this is about.

    We can't help it if the local officials made fools of themselves and are now taking this "misunderstanding" personally. If they are real leaders they will stand corrected and get the business done.

    Please don't join the town "victim" club like others on the board and in the police department seem to have done. You have always been on the right side of this issue so you have nothing to take personally. I am sure Pine Bluffs is a fine town, it is just a few individuals who are currently in control who need to start thinking right.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Mjolnir wrote:
    MatieA wrote:
    I joined this forum looking for advice and help dealing with an issue, it appears I should have went elsewhere, and maybe I would have gotten real help, instead of being blasted by wanting to work with my town, instead of going to war against them.
    Just remember you started it, now you are looking for a out with all the political pressure put on you by "friends" in your small town. Now you are trying to divert pressure from pine bluff and yourself by pointing fingers at other towns.

    What did you expect from your actions in the 1st place.

    If you only knew how wrong you are.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

  9. #9
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
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    Pine Bluffs, just "Gave them Notice" that's all.


    MatieA,

    You shouldn't take this so personal, your mayor and council members are grown adults and the more you push-back for them, the more you insult the intelligence of myself and others.

    I know that if you would have fought the town "on your own" they would have laughed in your face and you wouldn't be OCing right now, I can confirm this by how hard they pushed back at me.

    Sure the town council hates to be scolded especially when it comes out of nowhere but sometimesthey have to roll with the punches.

    The Mayor and Council have drugothers into this because they had "no other card to play" and once you get in too deep it's seems hard to save face, and then it looks only logical to keep fighting.

    Like I said you shouldn't take it so personal, I am just doing my job, the town attorney was just doing his and the politicians are just being politicians.

    It was no accident that I posted an article about preemption on the WyGO websites before the first council meeting on the OC subject.

    This was the beginning of "giving them notice", and the attorneys opinion was virtually identical to WyGO's opinion on state preemption and his statements making it into the newspaper right after the council meeting, further publicly backs up this "notice".

    At the very start, I told Officer Yeomans that he was "misinterpreting the law" then I was passed off to the attorney in which he pushed back till he no longer could.

    So we don't need to see other towns ordinances unless they are challenging someones rights, save your energy to fight real battles.

    There are three reasons that removing this code from the books is important:

    1. The police and the attorney originally misinterpreted their own law, either intentionally or out of ignorance but never the less they did it and it could be repeated again.

    2. The Mayor and Council said they would change the ordinance and from their own public statements they believed that the law wasn't in compliance themselves.
    "Speaking after the meeting, Anderson said the council does intend to bring the town ordinance in line with state law concerning the open carry of firearms in town."
    -Pine Bluffs Post March 5, 2009

    3. There is section of code that has unconstitutional "Blacklisting" and "Search and Seizure" provisions in it.
    Look at it for yourself, "blacklisting" is just like what Homeland Security wants to do to our returning veterans, labeling them as extremists. http://pinebluffswy.org/blacklisting
    Who and what would define a "Subversive Group", since this section does not define it.

    I intend to bring this to a close and I will give them my final "written notice" on this complete section of code including the illegal search and seizure clause.

    However, I too can drag my ass just as much as your council has, no offense meant to you MatieA.

    I would think they would be smart enough to protect the town from making the same mistake in the future by removing this entire section of code.

    By "giving them notice" this protects citizens in this way, if they were to arrest someone for open-carry in the future, they can have the pants sued off them.

    In other words they can't say what Officer Yeomans said " I had no idea",
    now the police and officials know the law and we know that they know.

    I have said publicly before I hold you blameless, for you have not fought these battles before.

    I have no hard feelings toward you or wish you any ill will.


    Sincerely,

    AB






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    Interestingly, Evanston's law actually ONLY allows for OC. The law, appears to me at least, to ban concealed carry, with the only exception being for law enforcement. NO exception for WY (or other) permit holder's. So, while their law is icorrect, effectively unenforceable for permit holders, and needs to be changed, I suspect the City of Evanston would have a hard time trying to charge an Oc'er with ANYTHING for OC'ing in Evanston, since the law expressly states that is the ONLY way to carry, if you are not a LEO.

    I have OC'd all over, in resteraunts, Wal-mart, liquer stores, etc since I moved here (since I prefer OC anyways, and cant apply for a permit until I have lived here 6 months (which will be next week, but I have no plans to get a WY permit, as I like OC better, it's cheaper, and OC does not have the long list of "off limits" places CCW does), and no one has said a word, or even really seemed to notice, let alone care. Heck, a few months ago, I watcheda guy carry a rifle into te Jubilee Foods grocery downtown, just tossed over his shoulder (there is a gun stiore inside), and no one batted an eye. I LOVE WY!!!.

    §15-8. Dangerous weapons. [Amended by Ord. No. 89-2]
    No person shall carry on their person any knife (the blade of which exceeds five inches in length), any dirk, dagger, sword-in-cane, slingshot, revolver, pistol or any other dangerous or deadly weapon which is concealed from the open and general view of other persons within the City limits. No person shall openly wear or carry any such weapon or any combustible or explosive material with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring any other person or damaging property. This section shall not apply to a law enforcement officer of any federal, state, county, City, town or municipal official vested with the authority or duty to enforce any criminal law or to make arrests for crimes, whether that duty extends to all crimes or is limited to specific crimes.

  11. #11
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    It is not unusual for localities to have illegal ordinances in the US. What is unusual is when any attempt to enforce them - in which case the Defendant can litigate their validity and presumably will win. I have heard of no case in Wyoming where someone was convicted of violating an illegal open carry ordiance.

    What folks should do is demand that these ordiances be repealed - this gets the issue up in the air and allows locality attornies to warn the police not to enforce them. Then if they don't repeal, you can bring an action for declaratory judgement against them in state court. This will cost money - so perhaps try to get a state law passed like OH & VA now have providing for attorney fee shifting to Plainitffs who prevail in suich actions to declare illegal gun ordiances illegal.

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    Mike wrote:
    It is not unusual for localities to have illegal ordinances in the US. What is unusual is when any attempt to enforce them - in which case the Defendant can litigate their validity and presumably will win. I have heard of no case in Wyoming where someone was convicted of violating an illegal open carry ordiance.

    What folks should do is demand that these ordiances be repealed - this gets the issue up in the air and allows locality attornies to warn the police not to enforce them. Then if they don't repeal, you can bring an action for declaratory judgement against them in state court. This will cost money - so perhaps try to get a state law passed like OH & VA now have providing for attorney fee shifting to Plainitffs who prevail in suich actions to declare illegal gun ordiances illegal.
    If one is charged with one of those illegal local laws, goes to court and wins, it is possible to win back all the court costs since the individual was forced to pay needlessly?

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    SDguy wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    It is not unusual for localities to have illegal ordinances in the US. What is unusual is when any attempt to enforce them - in which case the Defendant can litigate their validity and presumably will win. I have heard of no case in Wyoming where someone was convicted of violating an illegal open carry ordiance.

    What folks should do is demand that these ordiances be repealed - this gets the issue up in the air and allows locality attornies to warn the police not to enforce them. Then if they don't repeal, you can bring an action for declaratory judgement against them in state court. This will cost money - so perhaps try to get a state law passed like OH & VA now have providing for attorney fee shifting to Plainitffs who prevail in suich actions to declare illegal gun ordiances illegal.
    If one is charged with one of those illegal local laws, goes to court and wins, it is possible to win back all the court costs since the individual was forced to pay needlessly?
    Probably not- criminal defendants are expected to pay their own atty fees and costs unless they are indigent and then the state pays for a public defender provided the crime is serious enough to warrant state assistance, not small things like traffic tickets.

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    9.24.040 Carrying concealed weapons--Carrying weapons openly with intent to inflict injury.


    No person shall wear or carry concealed any knife the blade of which exceeds four inches in length, any dirk, dagger, sword-in-cane, slingshot, revolver, pistol or any other dangerous or deadly weapon. No person shall openly wear or carry any such weapon or any combustible or explosive material with the intent or avowed purpose for injuring any person.



    The very wording of these ordinances is deliberate obfuscation of the 2A. Key word is Intent. It's obvious that the intent and purpose of bearing arms in self defense is to injure an attacker. This can be construed as a violation of the Ordinance. Catch 22.

    This same wording appears (or has appeared) in many localities. (They must all have read the same book or something) How can anyone determine intent by the mere presence of a common weapon? I can see someone wandering around with a pipe bomb or a hand grenademight cause concern... but not a holstered firearm. Getting the local legislature to address (much less fix) this sort of thing is maddening.




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    Thank you for proving my point, you did not have any problems in Cheyenne "the bigger city" but you did start this, MatieA so either stand up and help finish it, or throw your guns out the window on your way to the gun grabber convention @ Obams house!

  16. #16
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    Ranger1, do you have a dog in this fight? You don't disclose where you live, so it makes me wonder. These folks are addressing their concerns politely in a frustrating situation, and your bile certainly doesn't help anything.

    Could you actually contribute to the conversation or go find someone else to throw stones at? Thanks.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Ranger1 wrote:
    Thank you for proving my point, you did not have any problems in Cheyenne "the bigger city" but you did start this, MatieA so either stand up and help finish it, or throw your guns out the window on your way to the gun grabber convention @ Obams house!
    I sent a PM your way, but decided to put it here also;

    I have NOT rolled over to play dead, I am still working with the Council on this matter, and if you don't like the fact that I disagree with AB's methods ...too bad!!

    Just because I disagree with AB's methods does not in any way mean that I have given up!!

    If I had given up, I probably would not be open carrying in town out of fear of being arrested; BUT I do openly carry my pistol in town.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

  18. #18
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
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    Ranger and Matie cut it out!!!

    This isn't where the fight is.

    It is fine to disagree but keep it friendly.

    For the record Matie can handle this battle with PB any way he wants to and I will do the same.

    Nothing will change this, so stop the back and forth.




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