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Thread: Racine County

  1. #1
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    Just wanted to say hi - moving to Racine next month and wanted to see what the rules were in the area.

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    Seldon wrote:
    Just wanted to say hi - moving to Racine next month and wanted to see what the rules were in the area.
    The only thing a local government can legislate is the discharge of a firearm, they cannot have laws more restrictive that the state already has.

    Do a search in this forumusing the word "Preemption" and you should get plenty of information. Some city's and towns still have unenforcable ordinances in their books, But they are useless antiquated babble at this point.

    Would anyone care to cite references?

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    That's good to know.


    I know there have been issues with certain cities over the past couple of years - Brad, Jesus, etc., and wanted to get an idea of where Racine and Racine County stand in terms of open carry.

    Who do I talk to in these areas?

    I know the local police force is ignorant of the law. I was in Jimmy John's the other day and asked one of Racine's finest about the city's view of open carry. I asked him how he would respond if he saw someone walking down the street with a holstered side arm - his response - "He'd be lucky if I didn't shoot him on the spot." So you're telling me that you would shoot him? Well he would at least be arrested. Really!, even though it's legal to open carry in the state of WI? It's not legal. Wow. From the research I've done it is. So you're telling me, you would react like that even though you don't know or understand the law? Well that's the law as far as I know. Wow. Thanks for your time.

    I was slap amazed as his ignorance and willingness to just shoot someone for exercising their constitutional rights.

    So how does one proceed or who does one talk to?


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    Seldon wrote:
    So how does one proceed or who does one talk to?
    A good start to learning more and meeting some of the people that post in, and read this forum is by attending the open-carry picnics that are being planned and already scheduled.

    There is an "Open-Carry" picnic happening tomorrow, April 19th, 2009 near Burlington WI consisting of members of this forum and others.
    it is a stickied thread at the top of the page, and another thread a few down the listwith the address and times listed.

    There is also severalstate statuesand pertinent case law referenced all over this entire forum. Spend a little time to sniff around, follow some of the links to other pages and sites and learn all you can learn.

    Now if the officer you spoke to saw you O-C'ing, I bet you will be arrested, and youfirearm confiscated. Then when he takes you in for booking he will not be able to find any statute that you were in violation of, and thenuse the catch-all of disorderly conduct to charge you. The prosecutor may or may not drop the charge depending on his knowledge of the laws. With all the recent publicity and lawsuits happening from officers wrongfully arresting people for exercising their rights, a guy would think they would know better by now.

    There are places and situations where it is illegal to be in posession of a firearm, make sure you know what and where to avoid so you are not charged with an actual offense.

    Some related phrases to google right now would be ("Brad Krause" + West Allis)
    (Jesus Gonzalez + Chilton) + West Milwaukee. Spend a few hours and read some older threads, I bet everything you want to know will be answered, if not ask some more questions.



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    Would it be worthwhile to actually talk to the Racine prosecutor?

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    You can give it a shot but I doubt it would do you any good.
    The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair. Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    Seldon wrote:
    Would it be worthwhile to actually talk to the Racine prosecutor?
    Racine county sheriff's office as well as the county DA support a charge of disorderly conduct should one open carry. Whether you get arrested or not depends on your demeanor and the particular attitudes of the officers involved. At the very least, you will get a ticket. Hopefully, all this will change if Jesus' lawsuit is successful.

    LEOs simply cannot conduct themselves in an unlawful and unconstitutional way forever. Their day is coming and we will then be free from LEO harassment.

  8. #8
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    Seldon wrote:
    Would it be worthwhile to actually talk to the Racine prosecutor?
    Well if the police officer said he might shoot you, I think the opinion of the prosecutor is down the list of our concerns. On the other hand, if the prosecutor is smart, he would advise the various law enforcement agencies that they better get a grip.

    Police officer education is the MOST fundamental and pressing need in Wisconsin. We already have the law on our side, now we need the lawmen (and women) on the same page. Hopefully it won't take somebody getting hurt or killed to get the departments throughout the state to realize there is a growing open carry movement in the state and to assure that their officers have a clear understanding of the laws associated with legally armed citizens. If anyone gets the sort of response that Seldon received then clearly that department needs to be contacted before the issue becomes more than just a hypothetical! Just a friendly "What the hell gives with this crap? One of your officers just said they'd shoot a person who was breaking no law!" letter to the Chief might do the trick. OK, you can make it friendlier than that, but I would make sure that you express outrage of some degree, because that is an outrageous statement by that officer. And to think some people think it will become like the "wild West" if civilians are carrying arms? Well yes, it will belike that if people are getting gunned down on sight by the local constable who thinks they're the only law in the land.

    If the Chief of Police doesn't give a good response, then I would go up to the next level-- the mayor, police commission, county board, or whatever level is above the chief. Might want to cc the city attorney or corporation counsel also. They probably won't repond to YOU, but they might give a friendly confidentional word of advice to whom they do represent.


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    Seldon wrote:
    Really!, even though it's legal to open carry in the state of WI? It's not legal.
    Ah, that officer is very knowledgeable of Racine city ordinance Sec. 66-58. "Possessing dangerous weapon. Unless otherwise provided by law, no person, except a bona fide peace officer, shall be found at or upon any public place in the city carrying or having within his reach any dangerous weapon, whether concealed or in plain view. "Plain view" within the meaning of this section does not include weapons carried in a case which does not permit immediate access to such weapons."

    Unfortunately that same officer is completely ignorant of state law 66.0409 which means what he does know is nothing but a load of horse crap.
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Shotgun wrote:
    Seldon wrote:
    Would it be worthwhile to actually talk to the Racine prosecutor?
    Well if the police officer said he might shoot you, I think the opinion of the prosecutor is down the list of our concerns. On the other hand, if the prosecutor is smart, he would advise the various law enforcement agencies that they better get a grip.

    Police officer education is the MOST fundamental and pressing need in Wisconsin. We already have the law on our side, now we need the lawmen (and women) on the same page. Hopefully it won't take somebody getting hurt or killed to get the departments throughout the state to realize there is a growing open carry movement in the state and to assure that their officers have a clear understanding of the laws associated with legally armed citizens. If anyone gets the sort of response that Seldon received then clearly that department needs to be contacted before the issue becomes more than just a hypothetical! Just a friendly "What the hell gives with this crap? One of your officers just said they'd shoot a person who was breaking no law!" letter to the Chief might do the trick. OK, you can make it friendlier than that, but I would make sure that you express outrage of some degree, because that is an outrageous statement by that officer. And to think some people think it will become like the "wild West" if civilians are carrying arms? Well yes, it will belike that if people are getting gunned down on sight by the local constable who thinks they're the only law in the land.

    If the Chief of Police doesn't give a good response, then I would go up to the next level-- the mayor, police commission, county board, or whatever level is above the chief. Might want to cc the city attorney or corporation counsel also. They probably won't repond to YOU, but they might give a friendly confidentional word of advice to whom they do represent.

    A suggestion that many people will suggest, is that you: "shouldcarry a digital voice recorder on you when you O-C, or have a trusted friend vidoetape you from a less noticable position should any harrassment occur.
    I fully agree. it will remove any of that typical 'He-said, she said" situations where the officer may tell alie during theirtestimonyin court, or an inquiry into their alleged behavior by a superior ranking officer. It does happen, I have been on the receiving and of an officer blatantly lying during his testimony court. There was not a thing I could do to make the judge believe me, It seems as if a person needs to prove his innocence these days as opposed to the prosecution proving guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt as set forth in our constitution.

    I thinka voice recorderwould have been an extraordinary tool to back-upthis very incident. and ofthat officer you had contact with where he was stating that he would "Most likely shoot you (for legal and protected behavior)of carrying a visible, holstered firearm, on your side".

    I try not to bash LEO's, but the poor behavior that is typical of some casts the rest of them in a very bad light.
    IMO more officers need to interject when a fellow officer is known for abusing their power, if they do not, they are no better than the other guy.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    I try not to bash LEO's, but the poor behavior that is typical of some casts the rest of them in a very bad light.
    IMO more officers need to interject when a fellow officer is known for abusing their power, if they do not, they are no better than the other guy.
    Indeed. Unfortunately there are expectations of aggressive behavior among cops. They are also generally taught to consider EVERYBODY they come in contact with as a potential threat.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    I try not to bash LEO's, but the poor behavior that is typical of some casts the rest of them in a very bad light.
    Bashing is commonly defined as 'harsh criticism' but any criticism, however well meaning, is interpreted as too harsh by them and their apologists.

    I have long been an advocate for LEOs and active on citizens' commissions but still, to hypersensitive cop apologists, a basher.

    See http://www.cicp.org/

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    I try not to bash LEO's, but the poor behavior that is typical of some casts the rest of them in a very bad light.
    Bashing is commonly defined as 'harsh criticism' but any criticism, however well meaning, is interpreted as too harsh by them and their apologists.

    I have long been an advocate for LEOs and active on citizens' commissions but still, to hypersensitive cop apologists, a basher.

    See http://www.cicp.org/
    The thing is--if it is the truth--it is not bashing. Bashing is unwarranted criticism, the truth is exactly that--the truth, like it or not--and more often than not--they and the apologists don't like the truth.

    I have long been an advocate of Constitutional rights--and making sure that the conduct of law enforcement does not violate it, and if their conduct does violate our rights-to call for them to be held accountable both financially and criminally whenever possible.

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/04/22/local_news/doc49ee4a286c67b468031272.txt

    Racine County Sheriff Bob Carlson said from now on, if a caller reports someone with a gun, dispatchers will be instructed to ask other questions such as: Is the person agitated, quarreling, or in a place posted against guns? And so on.

    “I want to avoid any kind of visceral leap toward making an arrest purely on the basis of carrying a firearm,” Carlson said.

    But he noted that the ruling pertains only to a holstered gun — not one in the hand.

    Similarly, it’s still illegal to have a gun lying on a car seat, for example. And pointing a gun at someone is “absolutely” illegal, Carlson pointed out.

    Racine Police Department spokesman Sgt. Bernie Kupper said the ruling will not prevent police from stopping and questioning a person with a firearm.

    “As long as it’s not accompanied by erratic behavior, they answer the questions truthfully, etc., they may be allowed to go on their way,” Kupper said.

    “It’s not a get-out-of-jail-free card,” he added. “We can still make investigative stops.”



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    Great, Sheriff Carlson knows and respects the law and the Constitution.

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    hmm.. ill be in racine county this weekend.. i plan on carrying.. maybe ill have to go to the mall

    just for clarification: school zones are ONLY k-12 right? so elementary, middle and high schools. does that include christian schools? or other private schools or just public ones?

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    Boy oh boy, How some attitudes have changed, or is it what they say to reporters has only changed???

    Minocqua, April 22, 2009, a casual conversation with a city cop with a friend of mine without me present;

    the officer was asked about what the chief told them about O-C, according to this officer, anywhere outside of the downtown area is fine, But if they find someone exercising his rights in the downtown area, he stated "They will be arrested and charged" Among the disorderly, they are threatening "Disturbing the peace" He stated "if one single person calls 911 and says "man with a gun" you are guilty of distrubing the peace".
    Ain't that a load of crap!? This is in direct conflict with what the chief stated in the lakeland time article when he was asked about O-C!

    Now if I would have been present for this conversation I would have asked "What if someone calls 911 becuase they are scared of a very large man with a shaved head, Tattoo's of swastika's and hitler all over him? Would he still be arrested and charged for disturbing the peace even though his dress and tattoo's are protected under the constitution just as is my right to carry a loaded fiream for lawful purposes?"

    It seems as if we still have alot of work to do, the memo issued by Van Hollen is basically being ignored by many police departments.

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    skamp:

    948.61(1)(b)
    (b) "School" means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school.


  19. #19
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    thank you sir!
    looks like my walk will be in the other direction then


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