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First OC experience

AWDstylez

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NightOwl wrote:
However, something else to consider is that even if they'rewilling toengage in a shootout, if they're attempting a robbery that shootout would provide time for a call to the police, which is something that would ruin a robbery attempt.


That's the whole point; it isn't going to be a shootout. You're going to get capped in the back of thehead the second the guy walks in and then he'll continue along his merry way.

Like I said, it's personal preference. No one can prove it either way, and no one can even prove that OC deters anything. I OC in rural settings for comfort and quick draw, and I CC in urban settingsto remain under the radar and have as much of an advantage as possible.
 

flintlock tom

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AWDstylez wrote:
NightOwl wrote:
However, something else to consider is that even if they'rewilling toengage in a shootout, if they're attempting a robbery that shootout would provide time for a call to the police, which is something that would ruin a robbery attempt.


That's the whole point; it isn't going to be a shootout. You're going to get capped in the back of thehead the second the guy walks in and then he'll continue along his merry way.

Like I said, it's personal preference. No one can prove it either way, and no one can even prove that OC deters anything. I OC in rural settings for comfort and quick draw, and I CC in urban settingsto remain under the radar and have as much of an advantage as possible.
I'm curious what you would accept as proof.
There are postings on various forums, in the last two weeks, of what would seem to be crime deterrence due to open carry.
1. A guy pumping gas with a holstered pistol observes a car pull up to the side of the mini-mart. One passenger jumps out, motor still running, and heads for the door. The driver of the car looks at the armed customer, yells at the guy headed for the door and the guy does an about face, gets back in the car and the car leaves in a hurry.
2. An armed citizen, shopping in a convenience store, observes two people come in and walk to separate corners of the store, they don't appear to be looking at products. One of them notices the armed customer, goes over to their friend and they both leave.
3. Owner of a liquor store, after being robbed, starts wearing a belt gun. One warm evening a customer comes in with a hooded sweatshirt pulled up and his hands in the front pocket. The "customer" notices the owner has a gun, does a double-take, turns around and leaves.

These may be simply anecdotal accounts, but they seem plausible to me.

If you're waiting for accounts like this to be reported in your local newspaper, you may be in for a long wait. Mostly because it's not "news", no crime took place, no police report, no high drama.
 

AWDstylez

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flintlock tom wrote:
I'm curious what you would accept as proof.


"I know a guy who _____" Is not proof of anything. Not to mention that those stories are extreme stretches to make the point,even on a good day.
 

chiefjason

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"There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually. "

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

I would assume that these run the entire gamut of CC, OC, car, home and business defense. How about this for an assumption a CC gun will deter nothing, for the intent is that noone knows it is there. An OC gun may/may not deter, but people know it is there. Regardless I like OC but am getting my CCP permit soon to expand my options, particularly when out with my wife and kids. To paraphrase Townes Van Zandt " I carry my gun outside my belt for all the dishonest world to feel." :lol:

In the end it's your gun Stylez, do what you wish. I think we need both OC and CC to keep the crocks on their toes, keeps 'em guessing.
 

flintlock tom

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AWDstylez wrote:
flintlock tom wrote:
I'm curious what you would accept as proof.


"I know a guy who _____" Is not proof of anything. Not to mention that those stories are extreme stretches to make the point,even on a good day.
Okay, fair enough, but I was not posting them as proof, I was posting them as a summary of a first-hand account. The postings referenced were first-hand accounts.
First-hand accounts are not "I know a guy who...".
So, if not first-hand accounts, and absent news reports, what would you accept as proof?
 

AWDstylez

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flintlock tom wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
flintlock tom wrote:
I'm curious what you would accept as proof.


"I know a guy who _____" Is not proof of anything. Not to mention that those stories are extreme stretches to make the point,even on a good day.
Okay, fair enough, but I was not posting them as proof, I was posting them as a summary of a first-hand account. The postings referenced were first-hand accounts.
First-hand accounts are not "I know a guy who...".






"I know a guy who ____" Refers to any anecdotal evidence, because we all know a guy who... something. The exception does not disprove the rule, and a few anecdotes do not establish a rule.

As someone pointed out, the statistics to PROVE one way or the other would be impossible to collect. It's not like you can survey criminals about how someone carrying a gun effected a crime they were considering.
 

Dustin

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AWDstylez wrote:
It's not like you can survey criminals about how someone carrying a gun effected a crime they were considering.

Not exactly. A&E 20/20 on their documentary about Gun Laws vs Crime rates asked 16 felons what there worst fears about their risky life style was.

They all stated that a citizen with a gun was their worst fears apart from getting caught. They went on to say that if they knew or thought someone was armed, they'd just go on to the next person and that there were plenty of fish in the sea for them.

It's on youtube, can't get the link for you at work.
 

AWDstylez

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Dustin wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
It's not like you can survey criminals about how someone carrying a gun effected a crime they were considering.

Not exactly. A&E 20/20 on their documentary about Gun Laws vs Crime rates asked 16 felons what there worst fears about their risky life style was.

They all stated that a citizen with a gun was their worst fears apart from getting caught. They went on to say that if they knew or thought someone was armed, they'd just go on to the next person and that there were plenty of fish in the sea for them.

It's on youtube, can't get the link for you at work.



I've seen it before, actually.

Around here I'm not worried about a mugging or other such street crime. If I'm going to be confronted with a threat it's going to be professionals in aplanned, large scalerobbery or home invasion. In both cases, seeing a gun isn't going to deter them, it's just going to get me killed first.

Like I've said 80 times now,it's a personal choice. Analyze each situation and carry accordingly.
 

flintlock tom

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In both cases, seeing a gun isn't going to deter them, it's just going to get me killed first.
Why do you believe that this would happen?
I wonder if you can point to any occurrences of this happening.

I would even be willing to accept "anecdotal" accounts as "proof".
 

AWDstylez

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flintlock tom wrote:
In both cases, seeing a gun isn't going to deter them, it's just going to get me killed first.
Why do you believe that this would happen?
I wonder if you can point to any occurrences of this happening.

I would even be willing to accept "anecdotal" accounts as "proof".

I've never even met in person someone that open carries, let alone have any stores about their encounters.

If you were an armed,professional criminal (not a dumb crackhead) and you walked into a crowded bank with intent to rob it, aren't you already one bold, daring mofo? If robbing a crowdedbank/store/whatever in broad daylight doesn't scare you, why is a guy with a gun, who you have the jump on, going to scare you? If I was the criminal, I'd see the guy with the gun, take him out immediately, and carry on with the robbery.

When dealing with pussy gangbangers on the street, I'd say you might scare them away. But any type of hardened criminal is more like to just kill you before you even see them.
 

unreconstructed1

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AWDstylez wrote:
It's personal opinion, really. Until someone has some concrete evidence about what happens when encountering an armedBG while OCing, then it's all just speculation.
that's true, but it's been awhile since I had a chance to post in disagreement with something you posted...

honestly, OC/ CC, it's all in what you feel comfortable with. just as long as everyone realizes that our RTKBA isn't limited to the method or the arms that they have a personal preference for...
 

YllwFvr

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Glad to hear about it! You handled it well.

"but I gotta say I'm pretty surprised to see that in CT"

In CT the people are different!

:D
 

AWDstylez

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YllwFvr wrote:
Glad to hear about it! You handled it well.

"but I gotta say I'm pretty surprised to see that in CT"

In CT the people are different!

:D

Don't knock it just because it's the most unfriendly state in the union. lol
 

MSC 45ACP

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I have been CCing for a while and recently started OC (when I found this website). I do believe when I am seen OCing in public, it is a deterrent to crime.

I am a retired LEO and wear a "LEO-style" black Bianchi ballistic nylon thumb break holster. I also wear a baseball-style hat most of the time. One of my favorites is a faded blue one that was given to me when I retired. It has a DHS emblem on the front (it looks a lot like some of the other federal agencies' emblems) and on the back of the hat it has "Homeland Security" in block letters. It isn't worn by anyone when we were "on the job", its an "off duty" kinda hat.

Wearing these items may lead someone to assume I'm still an LEO (with a retiree's paunch in front). When asked by anyone, I immediately tell them I am NOT an LEO, I am retired. I never wear anything that even comes close to looking like a uniform, either. Let them assume you're LE and they tend to jump to conclusions. I've gotten some startled looks from some unsavory looking characters and even seen a few of them scurry away as if they'd been shocked with a cattle prod.

I believe if we are tastefully dressed while OCing, any BG's that see us will jump to the wrong conclusion and decide to find a "softer" target. There are a FEW BG's out there that would want to take out an LEO, but most of them are cowards and aren't interested in severe penalties involved with shooting an LEO.

Just my SWAG (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess) based on my observations over the years...

:idea:
 

Tiny85

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AWDstylez wrote:
NightOwl wrote:
However, something else to consider is that even if they'rewilling toengage in a shootout, if they're attempting a robbery that shootout would provide time for a call to the police, which is something that would ruin a robbery attempt.


That's the whole point; it isn't going to be a shootout. You're going to get capped in the back of thehead the second the guy walks in and then he'll continue along his merry way.

Like I said, it's personal preference. No one can prove it either way, and no one can even prove that OC deters anything. I OC in rural settings for comfort and quick draw, and I CC in urban settingsto remain under the radar and have as much of an advantage as possible.
Good to hear it worked out well. In regards to adding some validity to OC vs CC. Has anyone ever looked at the percentages of guns used in SD eas far as how many people were OCing as opposed to CCing? If its about equal I would say yeah no added benefit either way. What if those people who were OCing had a much lower percentage of the over all SD in comparison to those CCing?


Not saying this would give any deffinative answere, but who knows might add more information to the discussion.

Deffinatly be more concrete then he said she said acounts of what might have happend. I know I'm still new here but it just kinda just jumpped into my head and thought maybe someone might have seen some data to enlighten us.
 

AWDstylez

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Tiny85 wrote:
Good to hear it worked out well. In regards to adding some validity to OC vs CC. Has anyone ever looked at the percentages of guns used in SD eas far as how many people were OCing as opposed to CCing? If its about equal I would say yeah no added benefit either way. What if those people who were OCing had a much lower percentage of the over all SD in comparison to those CCing?


Not saying this would give any deffinative answere, but who knows might add more information to the discussion.

Deffinatly be more concrete then he said she said acounts of what might have happend. I know I'm still new here but it just kinda just jumpped into my head and thought maybe someone might have seen some data to enlighten us.



That'd be a good idea if it wasn't for the fact that the number of people carrying concealed vs people carrying openly is massive disproportionate.
 
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