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Thread: Hello……and a thank you!!!

  1. #1
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    First let my say hi from Stafford. I came across this site about a year ago and have been lurking in the shadows ever since. There is an abundance of great verifiable information available here, as well as some interesting opinions and ways of interpreting code and common law.

    This brings me to my second topic, a giant thank you to OCDO, the user community here and the VCDL!

    In Feb. the second renewal of my CHP was denied by the Stafford Circuit for reasons (non-reasons) predating the issuance of my first CHP in ’99. The reason given for the denial was predicated on being a prohibited person, which I’m not.

    The information, insight and interpretations from these organizations encouraged me to per sue redress through the courts.

    So today along with a very good attorney, Mr. Robert Shearer, I had my day in court. The information and logic that was able to be presented to the judge WON the day over the rambling baseless arguments presented by the CA and the original reason for the denial.

    While the Code of Virginia is very specific on the reason for denying a permit it was necessary to point out to everyone involved in the CHP process that the law is the law and must be followed by everyone.

    So again thank you.

  2. #2
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Welcome and glad it worked out.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  3. #3
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    Welcome to the board and glad to have you in Stafford. Sorry that you had to hire an attorney to have your CHP case resolved but at least you put the CA and Judge(s) on notice to obey the laws.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    Wecome to the board and big CONGRATS on the win.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the welcome…

    This experience (mostly the expense) and a few of the comments made by the judge in his editorial have made me wonder just how many denials go unchallenged. Fortunately this was nothing compared to the issues others have had.

    Does anyone know if stats are published on how many CHPs are denied in a year? How many of those get challenged?

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    Stafford_1911 wrote:
    Thanks for the welcome…

    This experience (mostly the expense) and a few of the comments made by the judge in his editorial have made me wonder just how many denials go unchallenged. Fortunately this was nothing compared to the issues others have had.

    Does anyone know if stats are published on how many CHPs are denied in a year? How many of those get challenged?
    Is anyone else very curious? Tell us more!

    Why did the CA say you ere a prohibited person? What were the commnts from the judge? Exactly what did the local CA fail to understand?

  7. #7
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    Stafford_1911 wrote:
    Thanks for the welcome…

    This experience (mostly the expense) and a few of the comments made by the judge in his editorial have made me wonder just how many denials go unchallenged. Fortunately this was nothing compared to the issues others have had.

    Does anyone know if stats are published on how many CHPs are denied in a year? How many of those get challenged?
    Is anyone else very curious? Tell us more!

    Why did the CA say you ere a prohibited person? What were the commnts from the judge? Exactly what did the local CA fail to understand?
    I was going to ask this but deferred to the OP to offer this information.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  8. #8
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    Sorry, I intentionally left it fairly vague for personal issues but let me see if I can fill in some details.

    The history of the thing goes back to two incidents in ’96 and ’97 respectively. Like a lot of folks I hit a very rough time in life. Unlike most people I turned to a complete dumb ***. Both of those resulted in the Sheriff’s office being called and a trip to the ER where I was released to go home on my own (no follow on needed).

    Fast forward 12 years, 2 armed security registrations, two prior CHPs and a DOD clearance, and I was denied my renewal for “recent mental health issues”. This was the extent of the reason given so our argument had to cover all the potential reasons to deny based on that. The assertion was that I was prohibited under 18.2-308.1:2 or 18.2-308.1:3. As that was not the case the court should have issued the new permit.

    As far the court officials are concerned let’s start with the CA. The bases of her statements were that anyone with a shaky or questionable history should carry a firearm. She contended that two incident reports with no additional information were sufficient to make the denial. This was about as far as she could get as she clearly was unfamiliar with 308. (I may be a bit biased here for several reasons. Not the least of which was watching this train wreck for several hours waiting to be called.)

    If it’s all the same to you all I will just list some of his thoughts. His speech was a bit long and I don’t remember it all. Please keep in mind these are my summarizations and not his words verbatim.

    1. He took issue with the court being the body that was responsible for issuing permits.

    2. That he felt compelled to deny any application with some type of issue because of the limited information.

    3. That the only way to get the information was if the applicant appealed the denial and provides the details to the court.

    4. He also mentioned feeling caught between the “gun lobbies” and the “victim’s rights groups”.

    This got a bit long winded, didn’t it? I don’t mind filling in more details if it may help someone else but the internet is probably not the best place for that. When is your next get together? Maybe that would be more productive.





  9. #9
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    Some attorneys are good talkers and poor thinkers. That is obvious from your paraphrasing. This guy most likely does not want to work for a living so he took the easy way. If he last more than five years as a CA you had better watch out. He will be a Judge one day.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    What's a CA? Commonwealth Attorney -like a prosecutor?

  11. #11
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    Correct. That's the title used in Virginia for what is commonly called a District Attorney.

  12. #12
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    Sounds like you got screwed over by the Va Tech law. I wonder how long until the "common sense" loophole in that law is rectified.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Sorry you had the problem and I'm proud of you for fighting it....and winning!

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