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Thread: How do states treat other states permits?

  1. #1
    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    In my state (Louisiana) your issued a "Concealed Handgun Permit". Which allows only concealed handgun carry (open carry legal w/o permit) Some states issue "Concealed Weapon Permit" Which seems to allow other weapons besides handguns. Still others seem to issue a "Permit to Carry" and leaves it up to the person to decide wether to carry open or concealed, but allows for both.

    My question is, how does a state consider an out of state permit holder, who's home state's permit language differs from that of the state he's in?


    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Ky is CDWL...... Concealed Deadly Weapon License. You may conceal any LEGAL deadly weapon. I just never could get used to concealing my Street Sweeper or 1919a4 (:shock.

    We recognize any other state permit. Open carry is legal to anyone legally having a weapon, no matter what state.

    EDIT: No matter where you are from, you must follow the laws of the state you're in.


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    turbodog wrote:
    In my state (Louisiana) your issued a "Concealed Handgun Permit". Which allows only concealed handgun carry (open carry legal w/o permit) Some states issue "Concealed Weapon Permit" Which seems to allow other weapons besides handguns. Still others seem to issue a "Permit to Carry" and leaves it up to the person to decide wether to carry open or concealed, but allows for both.

    My question is, how does a state consider an out of state permit holder, who's home state's permit language differs from that of the state he's in?

    All your answers can be found here:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    I suggest you "Create License Map" for the quickest answer.

    LA is a pretty good state to have a license from though, 32 states total, which is nearly as many as any single state has...

    Louisiana AK*, AL, AR, AZ, CO, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, MI, MN, MO, MS, MT, NC, ND, NH, NV, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT*, WA, WV, WY,

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    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    I understand reciprocity, that wasn't what I was looking for.



    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Ky is CDWL...... Concealed Deadly Weapon License. You may conceal any LEGAL deadly weapon


    This is more like what I meant. Ok, so in KY a holder of a KY CDWL can carry any legal deadly weapon. My LA. permit, on the other hand is a concealed handgun permit and that's all it allows in Louisiana. So, if I go to KY, will my permit from Louisiana allow me to carry any deadly weapon in KY as a KY resident license carrier can, or am I limited to a handgun only per my permit?

    That's the question. Sorry if I didn't phrase it right the first time.

    I don't want to assume that merely having a permit here automatically gives me privileges in other states not granted in my own.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Well....there are differing opinions. My Ky license allows for ANY legal weapon concealment, but I must obey other states that I may be in.

    Should I be in a statewhere permits actually name a certain carry weapon, and I don't have my weapon logged on my license, am I illegal? I doubt it.

    On the other hand, I doubt Ky would go after you for carrying a different weapon other than what your permit implies.

    But either state could. Somebody else kick in here and opine.



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    The state of Arizona will accept any visitors state CCW permit, as long as the holder is NOT a full time Arizona resident......clicky:

    http://ccw.azdps.gov/reciprocity/default.asp

    Come on down.....bring your gun!



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    I would try looking at the reciprocity statute for the states you are interested in to see what they say, and maybe as the question on the individual state forum here as well.. There is no hard and fast rule, so you have to check each state individually.

    For instance, below is Kentucky's Statue on reciprocity. Unfortunately it is not very clear, so you need to find some case law, or just take your chances.
    Kentucky Revised Statute (KRS)237.110(20)(a) reads as follows:
    "A person who has a valid license issued by another state of the United States to carry a concealed deadly weapon in that state may, subject to provisions of Kentucky law, carry a concealed deadly weapon in Kentucky, and his license shall be considered as valid in Kentucky."


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    arentol wrote:
    I would try looking at the reciprocity statute for the states you are interested in to see what they say, and maybe as the question on the individual state forum here as well.. There is no hard and fast rule, so you have to check each state individually.

    For instance, below is Kentucky's Statue on reciprocity. Unfortunately it is not very clear, so you need to find some case law, or just take your chances.

    Kentucky Revised Statute (KRS)237.110(20)(a) reads as follows:


    "A person who has a valid license issued by another state of the United States to carry a concealed deadly weapon in that state may, subject to provisions of Kentucky law, carry a concealed deadly weapon in Kentucky, and his license shall be considered as valid in Kentucky."
    So my read of this... even IF your states permit was more restrictive than Kentucky while you are IN KENTUCKY your permit is subject to the provisions of Kentucky law.

    Personally, I would suggest complying with the STRICTER of the 2 just to be sure as long as they DON'T CONFLICT WITH EACHOTHER.

    Still a bunch of research to do though.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    General consensus is that with a permit from a reciprocal state, you are allowed to carry in accordance with the laws of the state in which you are visiting.

    Of course there are states like Va. where OC is considered a right for every legal citizen.

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    The only thing I would ever worry about are these few
    'Must Notify' states. GFB they ever find out while out of state you didn't
    tell the bad guys when approached, and you return home in the future.

    My sheriff states I must abide by the local laws of the state I am in
    regardless of my states permit qualifications. Although I did notice that
    his sheet says TN honors mine, but TN says they acknowledge it, but
    don't have reciprocity with us. So they are a grey area if the local want's
    to really get nasty.

    But (Out of State = NR permit for me).
    Home town papers are for home town use only.



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    As far as I can tell from everything I have ever heard think of it like this:

    You have a Louisiana permit. You visit Mississippi. While you are in MS then your permit is treated just like it was a MS permit and that you were a resident of MS. The laws of LA no longer apply and only MS laws apply no matter what your permit says. This the basis of recciprocity.

    There are some instances where this may not work but very few and all of them I know of apply only to a select few people. For instance a person can get a permit at 18 in some states and then it will be valid in NC even thought NC requires you to be 21.

    As long as you obey the laws of the state you are in at the time you will not have any problems. As for the OC in states that allow it I don't know of any that restrict it to residents of that state. Does anyone know of a case where it does.

    Sionce you are a resident of LA and have a LA permit this doesn't apply but in cases where someone gets a non-resident permit such as FL you have to be careful. Certain states will only recognize resident permits. For instance if a resident of FL has a FL permit and visits SC then that person would be exactly like if they had a SC permit. However if a resident of LA has a FL non-resident permit then it will not be honored by SC.

    I hope this helps.

  12. #12
    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    Lots of great help on the subject guys, Thanks!

    So I take it then, the general concensus is:

    1. That a resident permit holder of one state can travel to another, and have hispermit be treated by the second state as if it was a resident permit issued by that second state, with all the rights, dutiesand restrictions due a permitee of said state.(meaning, they don't just honor it, they treat it as if one of their own)

    2. This, even if his own state is more restrictive of what can be carried under his own states resident permit.

    3. A non-resident permitee may haveother issues however.

    4. Inany case, in-depth investigation of specific states reciprocity laws would be recommended.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    The odd bit that doesn't make sense to me, though, is that some states get their permits recognized by others, without recognizing the permits of states that recognize theirs. California is a great example of this...their concealed permit is recognized by several states, but they recognize no cc permits except their own. I understand that is it the way it is, it just seems...strange that it works that way.

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    Each state that you visit must be carefully reserched before you go there. You may want to call the state police or the sheriff's department in the state/county/town you will be visiting.

    Manystates/jurisdictions honor your out-of statelicense, but WITH the restrictions on it from the state of issue. For example, downstate NY permits have tons of restrictions on them that stay in effect even in full-carry counties in upstate NY!

    Same with restricted NYlicenses used to get non res's in Pennsylvania the PA license will be restricted as well.

    Restricted NY licensees, however, can get full CC's in New Hampshire and Maine, not to mention no-license needed Vermont.

    Best plan, get a non-res from the state you will be visiting.

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    Not to muddy the waters worse, but there are a few other points that have not been touched on.

    State reciprocity is a fickle thing at times, and there are three basictypes and you should be aware of them.

    1) Mutual Reciprocity: One state has a specific written agreement with another outlining and describing the rights and privileges they will each recognizefrom and in regards to the others permit and laws. This has a tendency to be the most restrictiveof the three types, and is commonly practiced by states such as Washington who only enter into written reciprocity agreements. Theseare typically redundant however and many onlyrequire that the permitee they are honoring must follow the laws of the state in which they are in.

    2) Unilateral Reciprocity: A state that recognizes another states permit without expecting or requesting reciprocity in return so long as the permitee is carrying in accordance with the laws and restrictionsof the honoringstate. This is done by many states such as Idaho and Utah. A common situational dis-qualifier howeverfor this is age, as some states will issue a license to those of 18 years of age who qualify (i.e. Texas, Wyoming) but the recognizing state will only honor those permits from people who are 21 years of age or older. Another has a tendency to be that the permitee must be a resident ofthe state of the permits issuance. Some statesunilaterally recognize the license from any state period, others only unilaterally recognize the permits from states with similar laws to their own.

    3) Default Reciprocity: In short...Alaska & Vermont. Nospecial permitor permissionis required from another state so long as you carry in accordance with the host state laws and are not otherwise restricted from owning a firearm. Thehosting state is in effect issuing a "default" permit.This is still considered a form of reciprocity because there are still restrictions placed on the individual that may not exist in the carriers home state, such as age, (21 Alaska, 18 Vermont) and other restrictions of locality.

    The other thing to be aware of is that permits that are issued in one state and recognized by reciprocity in another do not cover the individual in the recognizing state when it comes to the Federal1000' School Zone Law. A few states have adopted this law (California, Wisconsin, Utah) as their own,but youare consideredexempted as long as you have a permit that the state honors (resident or non-resident), but ONLY on a state level. Federal law continues tohold that you MUST have a permit from the state itself to be exempted for its part of this law thatthey consider in effect inall 50 states plus DC.No known person has ever been convicted of breaking this "federal school zone" law however as most states do nothave such a state law themselves and will not arrest for it.

    IANAL, and I am explaining things in the best capacity that I know how. If someone disagrees or has better information or description of each of these, please feel free to chime in. This is posted as food for thought and to remind each of you to be VERY aware of the laws and restrictions of the state in which you carry. Just becausea state recognizes a licence from your state, doesn't mean they will necessarily recognize YOUR license because you do not meet one or more of the myriad of conditions that may apply. :?

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    NightOwl wrote:
    The odd bit that doesn't make sense to me, though, is that some states get their permits recognized by others, without recognizing the permits of states that recognize theirs. California is a great example of this...their concealed permit is recognized by several states, but they recognize no cc permits except their own. I understand that is it the way it is, it just seems...strange that it works that way.
    That is because the have laws similar to Utah

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


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    ky.

    What weapons are covered under the CCDW license? Click here for answer


    • Any weapon from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged.
    • Any knife other than an ordinary pocket knife or hunting knife.
    • Billy, nightstick, or club.
    • Blackjack or slapjack.
    • Nunchaku karate sticks.
    • Shiriken or death star.
    • Artificial knuckles made from plastic, or other similar hard material.

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    Imagine sitting down to play a game ofchess.

    But imagine that instead of playing the game against a college roomate, girlfriend or one of your teenage children, there is a slight chance that you may be playing against a dangerous opponent, playing the game for your life.

    Also imagine that the rules of the game have changed drastically.

    In addition to each of the pieces of the chess set having it's own rules of movement from square to square, each of the squares has its own rule for landing upon it.

    One square, for instance, requires you to recite several lines from a specific selection of Shakespeare. Another requires you to explain a passage from the Bible. Yet another requires you to recall a fact from Roman history. One requires that you translate a line of French to English.

    Others have few rules other than that you must otherwise behave properly. It is a relief to land on those, but the game must continue.

    To make matters even more complicated, several of the squares on the board are sub-divided into smaller regions, each with their own rules!

    Imagine also that there is no assistance to playing the game, other than what you can read up on and remember prior to playing. And the reading material is scattered across hundreds of libraries, all incomplete and difficult to understand, even by an expert.

    The referees offer no help either. At any time, one of more than a million referees can suddenly enter the room in which the game is going on and demand that you explain in detail why you made the last several moves. If they do not like the answer, they can detain you and possibly prevent you from ever playing chess again.

    And in the end, if you lose the game to a dangerous opponent, it could cost you or a family member your life.

    Welcome to the game of legal interstate carrying of self defense firearms.



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    WheelGun wrote:
    Imagine sitting down to play a game ofchess.

    But imagine that instead of playing the game against a college roomate, girlfriend or one of your teenage children, there is a slight chance that you may be playing against a dangerous opponent, playing the game for your life.

    Also imagine that the rules of the game have changed drastically.

    In addition to each of the pieces of the chess set having it's own rules of movement from square to square, each of the squares has its own rule for landing upon it.

    One square, for instance, requires you to recite several lines from a specific selection of Shakespeare. Another requires you to explain a passage from the Bible. Yet another requires you to recall a fact from Roman history. One requires that you translate a line of French to English.

    Others have few rules other than that you must otherwise behave properly. It is a relief to land on those, but the game must continue.

    To make matters even more complicated, several of the squares on the board are sub-divided into smaller regions, each with their own rules!

    Imagine also that there is no assistance to playing the game, other than what you can read up on and remember prior to playing. And the reading material is scattered across hundreds of libraries, all incomplete and difficult to understand, even by an expert.

    The referees offer no help either. At any time, one of more than a million referees can suddenly enter the room in which the game is going on and demand that you explain in detail why you made the last several moves. If they do not like the answer, they can detain you and possibly prevent you from ever playing chess again.

    And in the end, if you lose the game to a dangerous opponent, it could cost you or a family member your life.

    Welcome to the game of legal interstate carrying of self defense firearms.

    thank you for your welcome,i am sorry that you took so much of your time

    with your "Imagine"post,since i don't play chess and would not know a king

    from a bishop.i don't interstate traval much,but when i do i print out the gun

    laws of that state,then when i get close to that state's line i pull over,read,

    and then put there print out on top of the other's.granted there are states

    that i avoid,the obama state of IL.for one.

  20. #20
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    I recommend you not use the LegallyArmed travel guides. Their NC guide failed to mention NC's rather strict alcohol and proclamation requirements and I could have gotten into a bunch of trouble.

    When I e-mailed thema correction, they didn't even offer me a corrected copy.

    Also, firearms lawsapplicable inplaces selling alcohol sometimes appear only in the state alcohol statutes.

  21. #21
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    Oregon is generally the same as La.

    Concealed Handgun License, w/legal OC

    Exception: OC legal w/o permit, except in cities where it is locally prohibited. There is, however, state preemption for CHL holders

    In response to the OP, Oregon does not recognize other states' permits, but you must always know and obey the local laws

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