For the second time, I'm OC has deterred a robbery.

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Can a mod add the word "convinced" to the title of this post (between I'm and OC)- that was what I was going for. I cringe each time I read that big typo. :banghead:

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Dahwg wrote:

Can a mod add the word "convinced" to the title of this post (between I'm and OC)- that was what I was going for.

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That reminds me. If you were convinced that

those 3 guys in the Olds were bad guys...

that they were just about to rob a gas station mart...

and that they were armed....

and you had a good description of at least one of the thugs....

and a decent description of the car...

and you had a co-witness....

then I wonder why you didn't call the police to report what you had seen.

Did you report it to the police? If not, why not? Those thugs were dangerous!

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HankT wrote:

Dahwg wrote:

Can a mod add the word "convinced" to the title of this post (between I'm and OC)- that was what I was going for.

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That reminds me. If you were convinced that

those 3 guys in the Olds were bad guys...

that they were just about to rob a gas station mart...

and that they were armed....

and you had a good description of at least one of the thugs....

and a decent description of the car...

and you had a co-witness....

then I wonder why you didn't call the police to report what you had seen.

Did you report it to the police? If not, why not? Those thugs were dangerous!

Click to expand...

They didn't commit any crime. I can tell the cops my suspicion, but what right would they have to affect an arrest?It is the same as the MWAG calls that are generated by the sheeple at the sight of one of us OCing.

The thugswere dangerous before, they were dangerous afterward, but they still had 4th amendment rights. No lawhad been broken, so LEO intervention would have been inappropriate IMO.

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Armed4Life wrote:

HankT wrote:

Dahwg, I think the incident you (and your wife) were involved in is a good learning opportunity. For you and the rest of us who like and use scenarios.

Thank you for sharing the details.

I think there is uncertainty about what the three thugateers were really up to. But the incident is instructive no matter what their intentions were. If they were going to rob the joint, there is a high probability of the right front passenger havinga firearm.

My thoughts about being in the situation that you described, me with a gun onone hip and an extra mag on the other, with my wife in the car, within 30 or 40 feet from some fellows Ideduced were probably BGs.... I would calmlyandunhesitatingly depart.

I would immediately flee.

I would then call 911 to report what I'd seen.

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Of course you would HankT. I'd expect nothing more from you.

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What would you do in the situation that Dahwg described, Armed4Life?

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I would have gotten in the back seat, curled up in the fetal position (rocking forward and backward rapidly) until they left. After all, if you don't resist or get involved, they might not hurt you....right?

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Armed4Life wrote:

I would have gotten in the back seat, curled up in the fetal position (rocking forward and backward rapidly) until they left. After all, if you don't resist or get involved, they might not hurt you....right?

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:banghead:

And there really are people out there like that.

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

(Barney Frank in the back explains the loose pants.)

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ROFL !!!

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And once again the "backseat driver, after action critique"crowd joins in. HankT seems to have all the answers, maybe we should all defer to his obviously superior judgement and experience.

My favorite part of reading posts like this one is all the "I would have done this..." comments that come after. It's so easy for people such a HankT to offer their critiques of a situation they weren't involved in, didn't observe and only have as a story in this forum. And here I thought only God possesses the ability to know the exact correct response in any given circumstance.

Personally I think the fact that he yelled out something to his buddy and then they left quite suddenly when they spied your OC is enough evidence that they were probably up to no good. They were either scared off by a regular citizen with a gun, or they thought you were a cop.

If regular citizens can "react" to OC by just asking a few questions or calling the police, without freaking out, then the youth of today, as de-sensitized to violence and whatnot as they are, certainly wouldn't react the way they did if they were just innocent kids. Good job!!!

Dave

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thefirststrike wrote:

And once again the "backseat driver, after action critique"crowd joins in. HankT seems to have all the answers, maybe we should all defer to his obviously superior judgement and experience.

My favorite part of reading posts like this one is all the "I would have done this..." comments that come after. It's so easy for people such a HankT to offer their critiques of a situation they weren't involved in, didn't observe and only have as a story in this forum. And here I thought only God possesses the ability to know the exact correct response in any given circumstance.

Personally I think the fact that he yelled out something to his buddy and then they left quite suddenly when they spied your OC is enough evidence that they were probably up to no good. They were either scared off by a regular citizen with a gun, or they thought you were a cop.

If regular citizens can "react" to OC by just asking a few questions or calling the police, without freaking out, then the youth of today, as de-sensitized to violence and whatnot as they are, certainly wouldn't react the way they did if they were just innocent kids. Good job!!! Dave

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+1

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HankT wrote:

Dustin wrote:

Which is also why Louisiana has the "No Duty to Retreat Law".

We cannot be prosecuted for standing our ground and not running away.

 

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No duty to retreat is a concept tied to threat of or use of deadly force in a self-defense situation.  It is not pertinent in the instant case.

It certainly does not mean Obligation to stick around and become a wannabe cop with my wife as my unarmed partner.

 

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Not in some states. The 'no duty to retreat' often extends to the defence of another person.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that I will leave a situation if ever possible, regardless of the lack of duty to retreat. Other people aren't my responsibility, and they can fend for themselves.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

The 'no duty to retreat' often extends to the defence of another person.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that I will leave a situation if ever possible, regardless of the lack of duty to retreat. Other people aren't my responsibility, and they can fend for themselves.

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You wouldn't by any chancebe related to Bruce Ismay and be fond of the color Yellow would you?

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

The 'no duty to retreat' often extends to the defence of another person.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that I will leave a situation if ever possible, regardless of the lack of duty to retreat. Other people aren't my responsibility, and they can fend for themselves.

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You wouldn't by any chancebe related to Bruce Ismay and be fond of the color Yellow would you?

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OMG I so totally love yellow!!!

:lol:

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"No duty to retreat is a concepttied to threat of or use of deadly force in a self-defense situation. It is not pertinent in the instant case.

It certainly does not mean Obligation to stick around and become a wannabe cop with my wife as my unarmedpartner. "

So you go run and hide with a gun on your hip, leave your wife to fend for herself. Kind of a waste of skin aren't you? Ace

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IMHO if you're there and involved in the situation (by proximity or direct involvement): assess the threat, subdue it, and wait for the police.

If you catch wind of an event taking place, don't make an effort to put yourself in the middle of it.

Why would you not partake in an effort to help your fellow man? Are you so narcissistic to disregard the importance of not only protecting yourself, but to help others who cannot protect themselves?

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Giving aid is very bad...
I tried this, flashed my lights to let other drivers know about the speed trap ahead.
Officer wasn't grateful for the help. I told him that leo spokesmen always
say it is about slowing down speeders not revenue collection, so I was helping
him out with the declared task he was doing.

Stopping a mugging, would give aid. Breaking up a bunch of drunks, nope.
Domestic abuse, probably not, too many variables for a clear answer.
Violent mob... I'll empty 1 clip into your nearest attackers as I withdraw,
rest of rounds are for my own protection while retreating, sorry you should
have been more vocal when they only wanted reasonable gun laws.

If a policemen is standing by and allowing a husband to kick his wifes
face in. Would you take them both out? I wouldn't hesitate myself.
As now it is clear that you are the only one who can render aid.

I think the hardest temptation would be to pop one off at the news crew
just standing around filming the mayhem.

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

I think the hardest temptation would be to pop one off at the news crew
just standing around filming the mayhem.

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You should carry one spare magazine just for them. :celebrate

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thefirststrike wrote:

And once again the "backseat driver, after action critique"crowd joins in. HankT seems to have all the answers, maybe we should all defer to his obviously superior judgement and experience.

My favorite part of reading posts like this one is all the "I would have done this..." comments that come after. It's so easy for people such a HankT to offer their critiques of a situation they weren't involved in, didn't observe and only have as a story in this forum. And here I thought only God possesses the ability to know the exact correct response in any given circumstance.

Personally I think the fact that he yelled out something to his buddy and then they left quite suddenly when they spied your OC is enough evidence that they were probably up to no good. They were either scared off by a regular citizen with a gun, or they thought you were a cop.

If regular citizens can "react" to OC by just asking a few questions or calling the police, without freaking out, then the youth of today, as de-sensitized to violence and whatnot as they are, certainly wouldn't react the way they did if they were just innocent kids. Good job!!!

Dave

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So, one person in a car talking to a passenger of his car constitutes "up to no good?" If they were"up to no good," why didn't they go forwardwith their evile intentions?If they were really "up to no good," they must have realized that it was 3 to 1. Pretty good odds, really. These guys are all armed, right? After all, who would rob a mini-mart without some guns?

And I gotta think that if some group or person is really "up to no good," that basic responsible citizenship would call for dialling 9-1-1 to report the "no-goodness" and let the pros investigate. Seems to me if one wants to assume that the thuggies are really, really dangerous means that means it would be prudent and justifiable to call it in with specificidentifying details Else, those really, really dangerous thugs get to do their mayhem elsewhere...

It makes no sense at all to build up the importance and danger of the event by implying some malevolence to the behavior of the three thugs--then to just forget same malevolence as it drives away with the identifying details of the car, the thugs and their actions fresh in the mind of the wannabe cop...uh...witness.

Well, actually, it could make sense:if someone were to want to take credit for foiling an imaginary robbery--at great danger to the foiler--but did not really want to dispel the courageous workthe foiler had doneby having some LEOs actually confirm that the boys in the hood were "up to no good." Let's face it, there wouldn't be much of a story if the cops had pulled the boys over and found that they were unarmed, unimportant and had simply decided they didn't have enough money to buy their next bottle of wine.

That would be terrible. No credit then for the great risks the OP and his unarmed wife were subjected to by these obviously heinous criminals, eh?


What would you have done in the situation described in the OP, Dave?For example, would you have called 9-1-1?

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HankT wrote:

thefirststrike wrote:

And once again the "backseat driver, after action critique"crowd joins in. HankT seems to have all the answers, maybe we should all defer to his obviously superior judgement and experience.

My favorite part of reading posts like this one is all the "I would have done this..." comments that come after. It's so easy for people such a HankT to offer their critiques of a situation they weren't involved in, didn't observe and only have as a story in this forum. And here I thought only God possesses the ability to know the exact correct response in any given circumstance.

Personally I think the fact that he yelled out something to his buddy and then they left quite suddenly when they spied your OC is enough evidence that they were probably up to no good. They were either scared off by a regular citizen with a gun, or they thought you were a cop.

If regular citizens can "react" to OC by just asking a few questions or calling the police, without freaking out, then the youth of today, as de-sensitized to violence and whatnot as they are, certainly wouldn't react the way they did if they were just innocent kids. Good job!!!

Dave

Click to expand...

So, one person in a car talking to a passenger of his car constitutes "up to no good?"  If they were "up to no good," why didn't they go forward with their evile intentions? If they were really "up to no good," they must have realized that it was 3 to 1. Pretty good odds, really.  These guys are all armed, right? After all, who would rob a mini-mart without some guns?

And I gotta think that if some group or person is really "up to no good," that basic responsible citizenship would call for dialling 9-1-1 to report the "no-goodness" and let the pros investigate. Seems to me if one wants to assume that the thuggies are really, really dangerous means that means it would be prudent and justifiable to call it in with specific identifying details  Else, those really, really dangerous thugs get to do their mayhem elsewhere...

It makes no sense at all to build up the importance and danger of the event by implying some malevolence to the behavior of the three thugs--then to just forget same malevolence as it drives away with the identifying details of the car, the thugs and their actions fresh in the mind of the wannabe cop...uh...witness.

Well, actually, it could make sense:  if someone were to want to take credit for foiling an imaginary robbery--at great danger to the foiler--but did not really want to dispel the courageous work the foiler had done by having  some LEOs actually confirm that the boys in the hood were "up to no good." Let's face it, there wouldn't be much of a story if the cops had pulled the boys over and found that they were unarmed, unimportant and had simply decided they didn't have enough money to buy their next bottle of wine.

That would be terrible. No credit then for the great risks the OP and his unarmed wife were subjected to by these obviously heinous criminals, eh?


What would you have done in the situation described in the OP, Dave? For example, would you have called 9-1-1?

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It's a good thing I don't live to please HankT. I offered my anecdote not to say look at me I'm grand- if I wanted to be a cop, then I would have become a cop. When I was a paramedic I had the great fortune of responding to a call for a gunshot wound and was told by the dispatcher that the sheriff's department had secured the scene- only to find out that they hadn't. We took gunfire while loading the patient and high-tailed it out of there. That was the point at which I was positive I didn't want to be a cop.

The story was told for two reasons. First, I really needed to get it written down because my mind was still buzzing with the events that unfolded. Second, I wanted feedback on how I could have better handled it tactically- I have received lots of feedback and your first questions HankT were instrumental in that. There are obviously very different ways that this could have been handled, and I like to know what others think.

As to the alleged BGs- without having been there first hand, you could never pick up on all the non-verbal communication - the various "tells" that come together to communicate intent. So you speak of what you don't know. To then say that I failed by not dialing 911 or that I had some other nefarious motive for not doing so is either intellectually dishonest or intellectually deficient- you choose.

Thugs are thugs but they are not looking to get into a big shootout even at 3-1 odds, they want to score their loot and run then get back to whatever party they were having. To assume that they would want to get into a shoot-out just after rush hour traffic in broad daylight is no different that the tired arguments by the anti-OC crowd that we'll be targeted just because of our OC.


As for all the Ad Hominem attack being flung around, I could frankly care less. It does seems to me though, that the real wannabe is the one who's intentions smell more trollish with each new post.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

The 'no duty to retreat' often extends to the defence of another person.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that I will leave a situation if ever possible, regardless of the lack of duty to retreat. Other people aren't my responsibility, and they can fend for themselves.

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You wouldn't by any chancebe related to Bruce Ismay and be fond of the color Yellow would you?

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Am I the only other person here who knows about Bruce Ismay? 1912 metrosexual! LOL

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XD40coyote wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

The 'no duty to retreat' often extends to the defence of another person.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that I will leave a situation if ever possible, regardless of the lack of duty to retreat. Other people aren't my responsibility, and they can fend for themselves.

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You wouldn't by any chancebe related to Bruce Ismay and be fond of the color Yellow would you?

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Am I the only other person here who knows about Bruce Ismay? 1912 metrosexual! LOL

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No your not alone but whether or not he is a coward is not necessarily historically accurate more likely it was due to the media portrayal of him at the time.