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Thread: What not to do at a traffic stop

  1. #1
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    Wednesday April 22 6 am

    Richmond news media are reporting a police involved shooting on West Broad St near the VCU campus overnight.

    http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=10226227

    "RICHMOND, VA (WWBT) - Parts of Broad Street near Laurel were shut down after a shooting that occured early Wednesday morning.
    An officer pulled over a vehicle on the eastbound side of Broad Street for a routine traffic stop.
    According to police, the driver pulled a weapon. The officer then shot the driver.
    The officer involved was not hurt in the incident. The driver was transported to VCU Medical Centerwith serious injuries.
    All traffic is closed from Shafer down to Belvedere while police continue the investigation."


    The area is a known late night hang out area for punks and thugs. If anything can be learned from this is, when the police officers says "put the gun down" you do it no questions asked.

    http://www.wtvr.com/Global/story.asp?S=10226003
    Video with details.


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    But, But.... Cops should treat everyone as innocent first!! That guy had a right to keep and bear arms!! All he was doing was exercising his 2nd amendment rights!!

    OK.. obviously I am kidding!!

    This is why cops get a little edgy on a traffic stop and you have a gun. It is not YOU.. It's because so many other people BEFORE you that have pulled guns on cops and tried to kill them.

    Should you be considered innocent and not a threat to the cop as he approaches? Sure..... but look at what can happen!! So I am not going to drop my guard until you have signed that ticket and drove away.

    Anyone can decide to kill me at any point during the stop. So I have to keep this in mind and be ready.. mentally and physically.

    So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    VCU or City LEO? Doesn't change anything - just curious.

    Traffic stops and domestic calls have the potential to go south quickly.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why.
    taking the gun?? I hardly think so.

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    Never mind...I think I'll not take the bait today. I have better things to do.

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    and now The Rest of the Story:

    It seems like it was not a knife,

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...ooting/262241/

    By Times-Dispatch Staff Reports

    Published: April 22, 2009
    "Police from the city of Richmond and Virginia Commonwealth University shot and wounded a motorist early this morning after the driver charged at the officer with a knife during a traffic stop, authorities said.
    Richmond police said the driver charged at two officers as backup units arrived to assist the Richmond officer during a 2:27 a.m. traffic stop in the 800 block of West Broad Street, in the heart of VCU’s main academic campus. The officer had pulled over a Chrysler sedan that was eastbound on Broad at the Laurel Street intersection, Richmond Sgt. Ron Brown said.
    John M. Bennett, VCU’s senior vice president for finance and administration, said campus officers were among those to respond after the suspect became uncooperative and the Richmond officer requested backup.
    The driver got out of his car and moved toward police while wielding a knife, and one Richmond officer and one VCU officer opened fire, striking the driver, Bennett said.
    Neither officer was injured, Bennett said.
    The driver was taken to VCU Medical Center for treatment of injuries that Bennett said did not appear to be life-threatening.
    Neither Bennett nor Brown said how many shots were fired. Brown said Richmond police, who are leading the investigation, would release additional information about the shooting later today.
    Broad Street from Belvidere Street to Shafer Street in both directions was closed until 7:30 a.m., and police used yellow crime-scene tape to close off the area as they investigated.
    Police called for flatbed wreckers to tow away a number of vehicles, including the Chrysler as well as several police cruisers."

    the moral of this story, "Don't Bring a Knife to a Gun Fight"

    Kudos to RPD & VCU for taking another bad guy off the street. When the true rest of the story gets out for publication, I suspect we will see how bad this guy was.

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    kenny wrote:

    The area is a known late night hang out area for punks and thugs. If anything can be learned from this is, when the police officers says "put the gun down" you do it no questions asked.
    ^I've lived a block away from here for more than 3 years. This is completely untrue. I go to Aladdins all the time. It only gets thuggish after you cross Belvidere. The only questionable place within a quarter mile or so is Hyperlink, but that place has been under heavy watch for a while now.


    Well fellow OCDO'ers, you have an EARwitness! (edited for the nitpickers, present and future)

    I was just getting out of my car when I heard the gunshots (heard 3-4 shots, rapid fire). I immediately ran to the side of the deck and saw the cruisers scrambling. About 15 cruisers showed up 30-45 seconds after the shots were fired. I took a video, and a few pictures. The "polizei" wouldn't let me get close (they already set up a taped perimiter, then when they saw me filming, they "coincidentally" extended the line all the way to Broad and Shafer). Here is the closest picture I got, before they pushed me back:




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    We do a section on safe interaction with LE in our concealed carry class. I always emphasize to students that traffic stops are a unique animal to LE and that eachperson (citizen and officer)must handle themselves accordingly in a very specific manner to avoid problems.

    Obviously this Richmond incident is something totally different but it does show the point that officers never know what they are going to encounter in a traffic stop.


    ETA - Just watched the video from the news report - Ron Brown sure says "challenged" alot. Not sure exactly in what context he's using that word. Probably not the best choice of words....
    James Reynolds

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    But, But.... Cops should treat everyone as innocent first!! That guy had a right to keep and bear arms!! All he was doing was exercising his 2nd amendment rights!!

    OK.. obviously I am kidding!!

    This is why cops get a little edgy on a traffic stop and you have a gun. It is not YOU.. It's because so many other people BEFORE you that have pulled guns on cops and tried to kill them.

    Should you be considered innocent and not a threat to the cop as he approaches? Sure..... but look at what can happen!! So I am not going to drop my guard until you have signed that ticket and drove away.

    Anyone can decide to kill me at any point during the stop. So I have to keep this in mind and be ready.. mentally and physically.

    So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why.
    There's no question about the officer keeping his guard up. It's a question about mutual respect and following the law.

    An officer can stay alert without being an ass about it. The ones that do, generally are treated with respect. The ones that don't, get complaints.

    A year ago or so, you posted concern that we fill an officers file with complaints and damage his career. Don't be an ass and you don't get complaints or worse, lawsuits.

    If the officer stays alert and follows the rules, he will stay safe. If he starts pushing people around, he may stay safe....but he will NOT enjoy it!

    "Taking" (your words) someone's legal weapon when there is NO perceived threat, is NOT GOOD MANNERS and is pretty well a guarantee of having his file "filled".

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    Well fellow OCDO'ers, you have an eyewitness!
    Not trying to argue.
    From the pic and what you posted it doesn't appear that you were an eyewitness.
    You heard the shots but didn't see the incident unfold?
    If that is the case, you arejust a bystander in the area.

    IfI have it wrongI apologize in advance.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Agent19 wrote:
    mercutio545 wrote:
    Well fellow OCDO'ers, you have an eyewitness!
    Not trying to argue.
    From the pic and what you posted it doesn't appear that you were a eyewitness.
    You heard the shots but didn't see the incident unfold?
    If that is the case, you arejust a bystander in the area.

    IfI have it wrongI apologize in advance.
    If he heard the shots, maybe he was an earwitness?
    James Reynolds

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    Agent19 wrote:
    mercutio545 wrote:
    Well fellow OCDO'ers, you have an eyewitness!
    Not trying to argue.
    From the pic and what you posted it doesn't appear that you were a eyewitness.
    You heard the shots but didn't see the incident unfold?
    If that is the case, you arejust a bystander in the area.

    IfI have it wrongI apologize in advance.
    Oh give me a break. Ok, how about an EARwitness, Mr. Nitpicker? That work for you? That picture was taken about 5 minutes after the shooting, when the perimiter was taped off (I wasn't trying to walk into a crime scene).

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    mercutio545 wrote:
    Oh give me a break. Ok, how about an EARwitness

    Please stop stealing my material..... I worked hard on that joke.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    mercutio545 wrote:
    Well fellow OCDO'ers, you have an eyewitness!
    Not trying to argue.
    From the pic and what you posted it doesn't appear that you were a eyewitness.
    You heard the shots but didn't see the incident unfold?
    If that is the case, you arejust a bystander in the area.

    IfI have it wrongI apologize in advance.
    If he heard the shots, maybe he was an earwitness?
    Haha... I was still typing when you posted this, and was thinking the exact same thing.

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    Oh, and if anyone else wants to play the "correct me if I'm wrong, but..." game, I didn't say what I was an "eyewitness" to. I was an eyewitness to the scene getting taped off. I was an eyewitness to the cruisers scrambling. I was an eyewitness to lots of other stuff during the hour I was standing out there.

    I do like the sound of "earwitness" a little more though. ProShooter, we should get it trademarked. Lets make a deal. Have your people call my people.

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    peter nap wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    But, But.... Cops should treat everyone as innocent first!! That guy had a right to keep and bear arms!! All he was doing was exercising his 2nd amendment rights!!

    OK.. obviously I am kidding!!

    This is why cops get a little edgy on a traffic stop and you have a gun. It is not YOU.. It's because so many other people BEFORE you that have pulled guns on cops and tried to kill them.

    Should you be considered innocent and not a threat to the cop as he approaches? Sure..... but look at what can happen!! So I am not going to drop my guard until you have signed that ticket and drove away.

    Anyone can decide to kill me at any point during the stop. So I have to keep this in mind and be ready.. mentally and physically.

    So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why.
    There's no question about the officer keeping his guard up. It's a question about mutual respect and following the law.

    An officer can stay alert without being an ass about it. The ones that do, generally are treated with respect. The ones that don't, get complaints.

    A year ago or so, you posted concern that we fill an officers file with complaints and damage his career. Don't be an ass and you don't get complaints or worse, lawsuits.

    If the officer stays alert and follows the rules, he will stay safe. If he starts pushing people around, he may stay safe....but he will NOT enjoy it!

    "Taking" (your words) someone's legal weapon when there is NO perceived threat, is NOT GOOD MANNERS and is pretty well a guarantee of having his file "filled".
    Hold on a minute... where exactly are you taking this??

    Nobody said ANYTHING about being an a-hole. Nothing about disrespect... manners....

    YOU have elected to do that on your own.

    I posted.. and I quote "This is why cops get a little edgy on a traffic stop and you have a gun."

    and

    "So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why."

    I was making a point and in no way defending bad behavior.

    Now OBVIOUSLY... no public employee should treat people badly. I have TOLD people to file complaints after hearing what they had to say. I have done that face to face and even on this board. So you will get no argument from me there.

    Taking your gun during a stop does not automatically equal a valid complaint. But you can threaten me with complaints all day if you want. I do not disarm people anyway.

    And yes.. I swore... I said "taking" and someone this word must be offensive to you since you quoted it.

    Do I really need to dumb it down any more so that we all understand a much longer and legal style of phrasing to make you happy? :P

    I try to keep my posts short so I will use self explanatory words so do try not to get all caught up in the meaning. OK?

    By take I mean "The officer decides that due to some reason he can articulate you should not be in possession of said firearm during the duration of the traffic stop. He safely and with due diligence temporarily removes the firearm from your custody and returns it once you are free to go and be on your way. The courts have ruled that the officer can control the occupants of the vehicle and can search the interior for weapons if necessary.

    So do you really want a sentence that long when it all boils down to an officer taking a gun?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Hold on a minute... where exactly are you taking this??

    Nobody said ANYTHING about being an a-hole. Nothing about disrespect... manners....

    YOU have elected to do that on your own.

    I posted.. and I quote "This is why cops get a little edgy on a traffic stop and you have a gun."

    and

    "So when a cop from Richmond takes your gun during a traffic stop.. think back to this event and you may understand why."

    I was making a point and in no way defending bad behavior.

    Now OBVIOUSLY... no public employee should treat people badly. I have TOLD people to file complaints after hearing what they had to say. I have done that face to face and even on this board. So you will get no argument from me there.

    Taking your gun during a stop does not automatically equal a valid complaint. But you can threaten me with complaints all day if you want. I do not disarm people anyway.

    And yes.. I swore... I said "taking" and someone this word must be offensive to you since you quoted it.

    Do I really need to dumb it down any more so that we all understand a much longer and legal style of phrasing to make you happy? :P

    I try to keep my posts short so I will use self explanatory words so do try not to get all caught up in the meaning. OK?

    By take I mean "The officer decides that due to some reason he can articulate you should not be in possession of said firearm during the duration of the traffic stop. He safely and with due diligence temporarily removes the firearm from your custody and returns it once you are free to go and be on your way. The courts have ruled that the officer can control the occupants of the vehicle and can search the interior for weapons if necessary.

    So do you really want a sentence that long when it all boils down to an officer taking a gun?
    Whatch mean? Watcha trying to say?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Whatch mean? Watcha trying to say?

    Yata hey
    I am not sure I can dumb it down enough for YOU to understand...

    Disclaimer:
    For those that may read into this and take it the wrong way.. Grapeshot and I are cool and can rib each other on here with no offense taken.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Whatch mean? Watcha trying to say?

    Yata hey
    I am not sure I can dumb it down enough for YOU to understand...

    Disclaimer:
    For those that may read into this and take it the wrong way.. Grapeshot and I are cool and can rib each other on here with no offense taken.
    You really are trying though.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    mercutio545 wrote: snip
    Oh, and if anyone else wants to play the "correct me if I'm wrong, but..." game, I didn't say what I was an "eyewitness" to. I was an eyewitness to the scene getting taped off. I was an eyewitness to the cruisers scrambling. I was an eyewitness to lots of other stuff during the hour I was standing out there.
    You must have missed this part.
    Agent19 wrote:
    IfI have it wrong,I apologize in advance.
    Your testimony will be invaluable.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    mercutio545 wrote:
    ProShooter, we should get it trademarked. Lets make a deal. Have your people call my people.
    Sorry my friend, I work alone....its the unwritten code of being a wannabe stand up comedian stuck inside a firearms instructors body....we're a rare breed.....loners, each and every one. We walk along side of no man. We travel where the wind takes us...we long for the love of.....oh heck, I need some cool whistling music to make this sound right - like in A Fistful of Dollars.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    mercutio545 wrote:
    ProShooter, we should get it trademarked. Lets make a deal. Have your people call my people.
    Sorry my friend, I work alone....its the unwritten code of being a wannabe stand up comedian stuck inside a firearms instructors body....we're a rare breed.....loners, each and every one. We walk along side of no man. We travel where the wind takes us...we long for the love of.....oh heck, I need some cool whistling music to make this sound right - like in A Fistful of Dollars.
    Haha... this is true. Well, for what it's worth, I was definitely still in "reply" mode when you posted that golden term. You just have a quicker draw than me!

  23. #23
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    So, who's the Good, who's the Bad, and who's the Ugly?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    mercutio545 wrote:
    You just have a quicker draw than me!
    Damn, don't do that! His ego is already this big.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    mercutio545 wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    mercutio545 wrote:
    ProShooter, we should get it trademarked. Lets make a deal. Have your people call my people.
    Sorry my friend, I work alone....its the unwritten code of being a wannabe stand up comedian stuck inside a firearms instructors body....we're a rare breed.....loners, each and every one. We walk along side of no man. We travel where the wind takes us...we long for the love of.....oh heck, I need some cool whistling music to make this sound right - like in A Fistful of Dollars.
    Haha... this is true. Well, for what it's worth, I was definitely still in "reply" mode when you posted that golden term. You just have a quicker draw than me!
    In the Wild West, a man's quickness in his draw was the difference in life or death, son.

    Jokes aside, I used to have one of the quickest draws in my department. I worked on it for a while and I could draw from a high retention duty holster, fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds and reholster before most of my co-workers were on target. I need to get back out there and work on that skill. Got to stay ready.
    James Reynolds

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