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Thread: TV News video captures consensual police encounter with Brad Krause open carrying!

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    http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html- see video

    Police response this time much nicer - proably not called for, but does not seem to me to be a non-consensual stop.

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    Chief Ed Flynn said officers can't assume people are carrying guns legally in a city that has seen nearly 200 homicides in the past two years.
    He said that means officers seeing anybody carrying a gun will put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide if the person has a right to carry it.
    Is that what passes for "reasonable articulable suspicion" in that city? If so, methinks Milwaukee residents have much bigger problems than open carriers.

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    You have to hit a few walls before you get whatits allready yours, its sad but its true.

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    I think we can all be in agreement that the number one activist firearms website is opencarry.org Since I've joined I've seen opencarry.org take a far more principled stance and backed people whom have been under attack by their local and state governments. As far as I'm concerned. The NRA is a joke. I hope this group has the following that the NRA does in thirty years.


    If your strapped for cash. Stop by Milwaukee. The attitude of the police chief makes me believe that several people are going to be winning very large lawsuits in the near future.

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    tito887 wrote:
    I think we can all be in agreement that the number one activist firearms website is opencarry.org
    That's cause we're not just an Internet community with over 17,000 members, we're literally a movement!

    Seriously, we are just normal people linked together thru a web site.

    Anyway, me read is that now that the AG Opinion (err, memo) is out and well publicized, most police departments are fine with open carry and our going to experiment with polices on how to do consensual encounters like we saw with Brad - i know, looks a bit goofy, but let's go along with it - i am going to put out another release tonight blasting Milwaukee's police chief and saying gun owners and the Sherriff association are fine with orderly open carry and that gun owners are ready play ball in consensual encounters even though we have a right to ignore the police - after all, its not like open carriers are trying to be anonymous.

    I know of lot of folks are starting to open carry around their neighborhoods, to the post box, local establishments, and I hope everybody can be like Brad and just politely interact with any police officers they bump into who we all know are carrying political bails of water for their Chiefs when they do these weird consensual encounter protocols. In a few months or year, open carry will become ho hum like it is in most states where it has become popular.

    But if Milwaukee wants to "take down" mothers open carrying with their kids in the park, well then, that would be a big mistake and if the lawyers in Milwaukee have not heard of Section 1983 yet, we'll fly in some more layers from Georgia who have

    PS. Watch those school zones folks and don’t even have encased guns in your passenger compartment (put them in trunk) - OC is not for amateurs in Wisconsin due to the crazy laws they have.



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    Nicely handled Brad!

    Note to self: carry gun, holster, voice recorder , cellphone, copy of AG's memo, Parabellum's brochure and TV camera crew.... this is getting to be quite a check list!
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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html- see video

    Police response this time much nicer - proably not called for, but does not seem to me to be a non-consensual stop.
    and if the news cameras had not been there the police would have put him on the concrete at gunpoint threatening him and cussing him...

    two faced double standards--every one of them should be out of a job who mistreat the people--the police chief included.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html- see video

    Police response this time much nicer - proably not called for, but does not seem to me to be a non-consensual stop.
    and if the news cameras had not been there the police would have put him on the concrete at gunpoint threatening him and cussing him...

    two faced double standards--every one of them should be out of a job who mistreat the people--the police chief included.
    Well, I doubt that - the word is out now, especially in West Allis.

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    Check out this bill Rep. Leon Young, from the video, is trying to get passed:

    AB221:

    This bill prohibits a gun manufacturer or a firearms dealer from transferring
    a semiautomatic handgun that does not produce an identifying code (microstamp)
    on each cartridge case it expends if both of the following apply: 1) the handgun was
    manufactured on or after January 1, 2011; and 2) the handgun has not previously
    been transferred to a person that is not a manufacturer or dealer (new handgun).
    This bill also prohibits a manufacturer in this state from manufacturing, on or after
    January 1, 2011, a semiautomatic handgun that does not produce a microstamp. A
    person that violates one of these prohibitions is subject to a fine of up to $1,000 or
    imprisonment for up to nine months, or both.
    AB221
    The bill also requires manufacturers and dealers who transfer a handgun that
    is required to produce microstamps to certify that the handgun, if it is a new
    handgun, produces microstamps and that the manufacturer of the handgun will
    disclose to a law enforcement agency that has collected a microstamp from an
    expended cartridge during a criminal investigation the make, model, and serial
    number of the handgun that expended the cartridge.
    AB221
    This bill prohibits a person from modifying a semiautomatic handgun that
    produces microstamps if the person intends to prevent law enforcement from being
    able to access the microstamp on an expended cartridge. A person who violates this
    prohibition is guilty of a misdemeanor and is subject to a fine of up to $1,000 or
    imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both. A person who transfers a
    semiautomatic handgun that he or she knows has been modified in violation of this
    prohibition is subject to a fine of up to $1,000 or imprisonment for not more than nine
    months, or both.
    Because this bill creates a new crime or revises a penalty for an existing crime,
    the Joint Review Committee on Criminal Penalties may be requested to prepare a
    report concerning the proposed penalty and the costs or savings that are likely to
    result if the bill is enacted.
    For further information see the state and local fiscal estimate, which will be
    printed as an appendix to this bill.


    So frustrating...

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    okay that representative pissed me off. he said we can't have people walking down the street carrying a gun IN THEIR HAND or holstered on their hip. umm- when i was in an open carry state, i didn't walk around with my gun in my hand...it stayed in my holster 24/7. i swear some people are idiots. especially elected officials.
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    I sounds like Rep. Leon Young needs to find a new job come 2010....

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    Looks like OC is being received favorably elsewhere in the gun world:

    http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/20...i.php#comments
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I have family in the Milwaukee area. It may be time for a visit. (Never thought I'd say that for a state that shows up read at handgunlaw.us!)

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    I really liked the LEO with his fake smile the whole time. I don't think he would have been so civil had the cameras not been there.

    I think that LEOs around here may try to get someone worked up to expose the person to a disorderly charge. This is reinforcing the need for us to be utmost polite with LEOs especially until they get used to seeing us. An armed society is a polite society, especially when LEOs look for any reason to arrest.

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    Reps and Heads of police prove once again: the only difference between Public Enemy, and Public Office, is the press coverage.

    This rep and chief are worse than the 'criminals' they dominate. Everyone who thinks the Bill of Rights is a good idea, is an enemy in their eyes. This makes them traitors.

    They deserve nothing but a short drop and an abrupt stop.

    Damn I wish I were there.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Mike wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html- see video

    Police response this time much nicer - proably not called for, but does not seem to me to be a non-consensual stop.
    and if the news cameras had not been there the police would have put him on the concrete at gunpoint threatening him and cussing him...

    two faced double standards--every one of them should be out of a job who mistreat the people--the police chief included.
    Well, I doubt that - the word is out now, especially in West Allis.
    You doubt it and yet the police chief is telling his officers to take down anyone OC'ing at gunpoint, and has said that his department will do everything they can to stop people from OC'ing, even though there is nothing wrong with it?

    http://www.tactical-life.com/online/...s/??right=news

    Milwaukee Police Ordered to Arrest, Take Guns Away Despite Legal Open Carry Laws

    MILWAUKEE, Wisc. — Milwaukee’s police chief said he’ll go on telling his officers to take down anyone with a firearm despite Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen’s finding that people can carry guns openly if they do it peacefully.
    Chief Ed Flynn said officers can’t assume people are carrying guns legally in a city that has seen nearly 200 homicides in the past two years.
    He said that means officers seeing anybody carrying a gun will put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide if the person has a right to carry it.
    Flynn said it’s irresponsible to send a message that if someone carries a weapon openly no one can bother them.
    Van Hollen issued a memo to the state’s district attorneys this week saying someone openly carrying a gun can’t automatically be charged with disorderly conduct. But he also said police have full rights to stop and question the person.
    Flynn said his officers will do more than that in their efforts to fight crime.


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    Dianosis wrote:
    Check out this bill Rep. Leon Young, from the video, is trying to get passed:

    AB221:

    This bill prohibits a person from modifying a semiautomatic handgun that
    produces microstamps if the person intends to prevent law enforcement from being
    able to access the microstamp on an expended cartridge. A person who violates this
    prohibition is guilty of a misdemeanor and is subject to a fine of up to $1,000 or
    imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both. A person who transfers a
    semiautomatic handgun that he or she knows has been modified in violation of this
    prohibition is subject to a fine of up to $1,000 or imprisonment for not more than nine
    months, or both.
    What if I "modify" the semi pistol to stop a crook from using brass with my stamp
    on them and reloading them to use in a crime.
    This seems to make me exempt from the law, since I am doing it to stop from being
    framed, not to stop leo from investigating the crooks gun that reuses the brass.
    Fortunately I don't even need to visit the relatives up there anymore.
    35 years later I am still gratefull I didn't accept Madison's invite for college.

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    "The reason I'm checking is because felons can't have guns in Wisconsin," West Allis police said.



    Last time I checked, it was illegal for convicted child molesters and sex offenders to be around children. Are they now going to stop every adult that is with a kid(s) to make sure they aren't one?



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    The ugly arrogance of some people in law enforcement is why it is SO difficult for many of us to be comfortable with those in the law enforcement community.

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    Come on guys, You know as well as I do if the film crew was not on scene with their cameras rolling, it would have been a take-down, arrest and charged just like he was last time.

    Does anyone have the West Allis police chiefs quote when he was interviewed after Brads trial where he was found Not Guilty? Maybe it could get posted?

    I'll see if I can find it and post it so we can all remember clearly, it wasn't too different from "Commander Flynn's" tirade.

    So, who do you think placed that call to the police? I would be willing to bet it was the same neighbor that opened upthis same can of worms last time! I bet the guy is worse than Mrs Cravats from the old TV show "Bewitched" (Lenny Lenny, look what they are doing across the street! Do something about it! Make them stop!)



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    That's probably the on-camera response the caller was hoping for.

    My hat goes off to Mr. Krause. Polite and educational in front of the cops and on camera.

    Nutczak wrote:
    Come on guys, You know as well as I do if the film crew was not on scene with their cameras rolling, it would have been a take-down, arrest and charged just like he was last time.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    All the more reason to have your own camera, and a friend.

    Digital cameras are cheap now. You can have the video up on youtube in minutes. Can't steal and destroy that evidence, eh Big Brother?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Sure they can. Officers do it frequently.

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    HungSquirrel wrote:
    Sure they can. Officers do it frequently.
    "You can't outrun their radio." They can't outrun my wireless broadband.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Rep. Young might very well cause fear or disturbance if he were to walk down an all-white neighborhood even in liberal Milwaukee or Madison at 2 a.m. Does that mean he gets arrested for disorderly conduct? The irrational thoughts/prejudices of others cannot be used to squelch individual rights.

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