Open Carry Mentioned to CHP Friend (shocked by response)

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Hello all, I have been lurking on this open carry board for a while. Trying to learn to open carry correctly to ensure I don't violate the laws while exercising my 2nd amendment rights. I like to ask questions from people not actually associated with the OC boards.

I was at a local bar the other day and bumped into a my ex neighbor (CHP officer 15-20 years on force). He is usually a pretty nice guy and I like to chat with him when I see him. Somehow we got on the subject of the open carry and I was shocked by his response. He absolutely has never heard of this be legal and told me that he would arrest me if he came upon me in the field. I didn't argue because I could see that he even became a bit agitated about people thinking they can open carry.

I mentioned about the gun not being loaded and the amunition being on the belt, not attached to the gun. Wow! he insisted that was the same as being loaded. I mentioned it would be loaded if I was commiting a felony and he dissagreed. So I left it at that because it seemed to be a touchy subject for some reason.

I still consider this officer a friend of mine, but was confused as to why the CHP departments have not issued memos to their officers regarding Open Carry. Does the CHP open themselves up to lawsuits for false arrests.

I remember someone saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" . Does that apply to officers arresting someone? If they are ignorant of the law and they arrest someone does the same saying apply.

I think I was just more shocked that the conversation went from friendly to kind of argumentative with my friend not even wanting to hear another point that challenges his understanding of the law.

I will send some of those bulletins to the local CHP chiefs in the next few days. Hopefully, they will advise their officers. Open carry will never be viewed as legal by regular people if the police agencies do not educate their officers.

I hope this is not seen as an attack on LEO's . It is just a conversation with a friend and a question to the open carry community. Do most law enforcement officers bother to stay up to date on the laws?

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That's a pretty common response. I once asked some family members who are cops (three of them) if open carrying was legal. They all said that having ammo within arms reach was the same as loaded. Once I pointed out that that definition only applies to people engaged in gang activity one of them admitted that he had never ran into a non-felon with a gun on the street, so he didn't know. The other two stuck to their argument that it was illegal.

I'm not sure why this is a common belief with police officers. Bad_ace had a run-in with a Sheriff in Cupertino who thought the same thing. Another guy in a San Diego suburb was arrested and then un-arrested because the arresting officer "knew" he was right. It's some urban myth which has only reached cops. Luckily, having them read the laws makes it easier for your point to get across, although sometimes it isn't enough.

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The problem is that it appears that police are trained that gun + ammo = loaded = guilty of a crime. They need to be reeducated. Add to to that the problem that most (not all) cops (at least in my experience) do not take well to being told that they are wrong.

The reason that they are trained that gun + ammo = loaded is because quite often it is true, and when dealing with a criminal it is always true. Let me quote from the OC flyer:

There is a common misconception that merely possessing both a firearm and ammunition in close proximity legally equates to loaded. This mistake stems from several PC sections that do not apply to the law-abiding gun owner. 12001(j) only applies to 12023 (carry with intent to commit a felony). 12021.5 only applies to street gang crimes as defined in 186.22. 12022.2 only applies to armor piercing ammunition. 12025(b)(6)(A) is a sentence enhancement which only applies if one violates 12025 (carrying concealed). 171e only applies inside the State Capitol, legislative offices, or office or residence of the Governor.

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That reminds me, I intended to email or write to the deputy that told me that and ask him to re-read 12025, making note of section (f)

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

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The CHP does not handle criminal issues and they do not regularily keep up with current criminal codes. They are actually extremely ignorant when it comes to Penal Codes. Thay handle traffic problems and if they come across a criminal issue, more often they will call the local jurisdiction of Police or Sheriff to handle the crime. Now that is not to say that they are not allowed to handle criminal issues as all peace officers can handle crime in CA but the CHP does not normally handle criminal issues like this.

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bigtoe416 wrote:

That's a pretty common response.

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Plus One.

This is exactly what I would have expected from a CHP veteran- I would have been shocked if he had reacted saying that he knew it was legal and approved.

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+1 on CHP not knowing the law.

They're a ticket agency.

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Give him a brochure from californiaopencarry.org and let him know that his own department's web site says this about guns and ammo (keep in mind this is geared toward locked unloaded concealed carry without a 12050 license to carry):

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

Frequently Asked Questions of the Highway Patrol

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I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?

California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

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Not surprised by his ignorance, though his attitude is telling of his personality. California has this deep-rooted sense that the bearing of arms is a privilege. That's a common sentiment, not exclusive to LE-types. Heck, many of us probably believed the same thing until we read differently here. I know I did.

This should be a reminder of one of our biggest opportunities, and what I think should be our primary goal with open carry: dispelling the myths of FUD. The gun grabbers have succeeded immensely at making the bearing of arms taboo. It's time to reverse that.

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my wife has cousin that is CHP and a cool guy but he has told me how him and most other chips are anti-civilian carry,and tend to crack down on armed security that stop to get gas or anything else because 12031(d)(5) only allows security officers to carry to and from work,during work,and to the range while in uniform with no stops.

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I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with the laws here.

Even in Virginia, people get harassed when we open carry. and it's perfectly LEGAL!

I'll probably attend some of the events [unarmed, since i sold all my handguns while preparing for the move]

but I won't try to OC. OC'ing while brown in VA was bad, I figure doing the same in CA will be worse!

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tsannicolas wrote:

I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with the laws here.

Even in Virginia, people get harassed when we open carry. and it's perfectly LEGAL!

I'll probably attend some of the events [unarmed, since i sold all my handguns while preparing for the move]

but I won't try to OC. OC'ing while brown in VA was bad, I figure doing the same in CA will be worse!

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Its unfortunate that you sold all your handguns in preparation to come to California. As for carrying while 'brown', Im not sure that would even be a factor. OC is so new to the police out here, that detention is assured regardless of race. Be sure to check into calguns.net and the Cal Guns Foundation...Its not exactly like VCDL, but they are some fine advocates of the 2A in California.

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ConditionThree wrote:

tsannicolas wrote:

I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with the laws here.

Even in Virginia, people get harassed when we open carry. and it's perfectly LEGAL!

I'll probably attend some of the events [unarmed, since i sold all my handguns while preparing for the move]

but I won't try to OC. OC'ing while brown in VA was bad, I figure doing the same in CA will be worse!

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Its unfortunate that you sold all your handguns in preparation to come to California. As for carrying while 'brown', Im not sure that would even be a factor. OC is so new to the police out here, that detention is assured regardless of race. Be sure to check into calguns.net and the Cal Guns Foundation...Its not exactly like VCDL, but they are some fine advocates of the 2A in California.

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It's sort of a joke over on the VA forums.

BMWAG - black/brown man with a gun.

anyway, thanks for the tip on Cal Guns. I've known about them for years.

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Getting back to the subject of the CHP...

I was amazed this morning, getting off the freeway. A CHP motorcycle officer rode behind me to the light.

Unlike last time... He saw my pistol, but no flashing red and blue lights! I'm guessing the message is getting through?

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demnogis wrote:

Getting back to the subject of the CHP...

I was amazed this morning, getting off the freeway. A CHP motorcycle officer rode behind me to the light.

Unlike last time... He saw my pistol, but no flashing red and blue lights! I'm guessing the message is getting through?

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That's good news! Seems he didn't even feel the need to stop you in order to perform a 12031(e) check. Progress, my friends.

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tsannicolas wrote:

I'm really not looking forward to having to deal with the laws here.

Even in Virginia, people get harassed when we open carry. and it's perfectly LEGAL!

I'll probably attend some of the events [unarmed, since i sold all my handguns while preparing for the move]

but I won't try to OC. OC'ing while brown in VA was bad, I figure doing the same in CA will be worse!

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1) Where are you located?
2) When are you getting a gun?

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Ignorance of the law by LEO's is completely acceptable, did you not get the memo?