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Thread: Why the debate?

  1. #1
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    Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the laws before 1995 allowed jurisdictions to handle firearms however they want. Then the laws were fixed, as they were unconstitutional, or at least unpopular. Sooooo, why are people now talking about "communities should have the right....blah blah blah."

    I DON'T GET IT.


    Or is this all just a media circus?


  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Yes, before 1995 every little town could have their own firearms ordinances. With 72 counties, just think of the number of municipalities there are throughout the state and how many ordinances a fella would have to deal with.

    Just think, one little town could define something with possession of a firearm as a felony, and BANG! They take ALL your guns FOREVER.

    So, in 1995 the legislature enacted 66.0409. The intent was to level the playing field, make all the laws the same as state law, so citizens couldn't be charged with these little gun violations. Now they want to REPEAL 66.0409.

    and so it continues....,.



  3. #3
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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Just think, one little town could define something with possession of a firearm as a felony, and BANG! They take ALL your guns FOREVER.
    I think at most a town can charge muni violations - fine.

    To get to criminal (mis / felony) I _think_ you need to be at county level...

    Someone wanna correct me if I'm wrong?
    - What da hay?

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  4. #4
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    yea, so that in a few years we can change it again. I mean really.

  5. #5
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    The local governments can only enforce their existing laws if they are similar to and no more restrictive than state law.

    We are having a similar conversation in the Milwaukee Picnic thread. The picnic was going to be held in Greenfield Park, a park in the Milwaukee County park system. Milwaukee County has an ordinance on the book that prohibits firearms from county parks. THere is a state statute prohibiting firearms in state parks except during designating hunting seasons. Therefore, the county ordinance is similar to the state ordinance.

    My question is if Article 1, Section 25 preempts the statute prohibiting firearms in state parks. Also, is the Miwaukee County ordinance enforceable? My county supervisor has put a request into the county Corporation Counsel to clarify and give an opinion. I don't know what the penalty is for violating the ordinance, but we have decided to move the picnic onto private property in leu or prosecution until we get clarification.

    There has to be a few lawyers roaming this forum...:what:
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

  6. #6
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    It is similiar, but it's also more stringent. ie more time of the year that firearms are not legal.

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    pvtschultz wrote:
    The local governments can only enforce their existing laws if they are similar to and no more restrictive than state law.

    We are having a similar conversation in the Milwaukee Picnic thread. The picnic was going to be held in Greenfield Park, a park in the Milwaukee County park system. Milwaukee County has an ordinance on the book that prohibits firearms from county parks. THere is a state statute prohibiting firearms in state parks except during designating hunting seasons. Therefore, the county ordinance is similar to the state ordinance.

    My question is if Article 1, Section 25 preempts the statute prohibiting firearms in state parks. Also, is the Miwaukee County ordinance enforceable? My county supervisor has put a request into the county Corporation Counsel to clarify and give an opinion. I don't know what the penalty is for violating the ordinance, but we have decided to move the picnic onto private property in leu or prosecution until we get clarification.

    There has to be a few lawyers roaming this forum...:what:
    Seems to me like prohibiting firearms in county parks is more stringent than prohibiting them in state parks...


    - What da hay?

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  8. #8
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    But they are similar in nature and the parks are the property of the county. You cannot bring your piece into town halls, court houses, or other public buildings, the parks may be on the same playing field. There appears to be a bit more risk with this one.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

  9. #9
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    But the restriction says "similar to, and no more stringent than, state regulations."

    They may be similar...but they're more stringent.

    IANAL, but...

    And regarding your point...it's a _state_ law that you cannot take a firearm into any building owned by the state ore a political subdivision thereof.

    It is NOT a state law that you cannot take a firearm into a _park_ "owned by the state or a political subdivision thereof."

    The intent is that if you allow a local regulation the same as a state regulation, they can handle the prosecution (and keep the profits) locally rather than deferring to state prosecution.


    - What da hay?

    Keep Calm and Carry On

  10. #10
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    pvtschultz wrote:
    But they are similar in nature and the parks are the property of the county. You cannot bring your piece into town halls, court houses, or other public buildings, the parks may be on the same playing field. There appears to be a bit more risk with this one.
    You can't take the gun into town halls, court houses, etc, because that is state law. Some local laws merely repeat that.

    State law says you cannot have unencased firearms in state parks (with some exceptions for hunting and designated shooting ranges) but there is no state law regarding county and city parks. Therefore, municipal ordinances regarding guns in local parks are preempted and unenforceable. They restrict the places you cannot have the firearms more stringently than state law. That's a no-no!
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  11. #11
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    Shotgun wrote:
    pvtschultz wrote:
    But they are similar in nature and the parks are the property of the county. You cannot bring your piece into town halls, court houses, or other public buildings, the parks may be on the same playing field. There appears to be a bit more risk with this one.
    You can't take the gun into town halls, court houses, etc, because that is state law. Some local laws merely repeat that.

    State law says you cannot have unencased firearms in state parks (with some exceptions for hunting and designated shooting ranges) but there is no state law regarding county and city parks. Therefore, municipal ordinances regarding guns in local parks are preempted and unenforceable. They restrict the places you cannot have the firearms more stringently than state law. That's a no-no!
    Do you want to hold our hands for a picnic in Greenfield Park then? I tried to determine what the penalty was for violating Milwaukee County Ordinance 47.05 but could not come up with anything from the ordinace. Either way, the picnic has been relocated to private property.

    Did you cancel that reservation yet? We may want to hold off on canceling if there is not further penalty for canceling than the 50% that we'd already forfit. We might as well push the issue further with the lady at the park and rec department and at the county board level before we throw in the towl.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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