Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Driving on University Roads

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    The officers at my university say that I can't drive on their roads with a gun in my car, not even to pass through to make a trip shorter with no intention of exiting my vehicle, because they make the rules and that's how it is. I know that preemption doesn't apply because they're not a local government, but I thought that if you were in your vehicle then you may carry wherever, with the exception of employers being able to prohibit their employees from doing so on company property. I've been told that there are sparsely posted signs that say that firearms aren't allowed.

    If I'm wrong about the 'your car is your property so you may carry wherever' thing, then I can see how they can easily enforce the policy prohibiting firearms seeing as how they can make their own rules. If that's the case, there's no need to answer the questions below. Just tell me I'm wrong.

    Question one: Being a student of this university, can they enforce this rule upon me?

    Question two: Can a person who is not affiliated with the university have this rule enforced upon them?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    College Carry: Concealed Carry Prohibited by Statute - Open Carry Generally Legal

    NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions

    I'm not sure if this applies to universities or not, but if your a student there I would assume they can enforce it upon you seeing as it may be a policy of the campus.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    156

    Post imported post

    UnSeen UnKnown wrote:
    College Carry: Concealed Carry Prohibited by Statute - Open Carry Generally Legal

    NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions

    I'm not sure if this applies to universities or not, but if your a student there I would assume they can enforce it upon you seeing as it may be a policy of the campus.

    concealed carry prohibited in classrooms and dorms by statute, OC legal, CC legal outside classrooms and dorms.

  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    xd-40 wrote:
    UnSeen UnKnown wrote:
    College Carry: Concealed Carry Prohibited by Statute - Open Carry Generally Legal

    NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions

    I'm not sure if this applies to universities or not, but if your a student there I would assume they can enforce it upon you seeing as it may be a policy of the campus.

    concealed carry prohibited in classrooms and dorms by statute, OC legal, CC legal outside classrooms and dorms.
    xd-40 is correct as far as the Concealed Pistol law itself is concerned BUT, as regards preemption, since Universities/Colleges are not listed as being preempted by the state in matters relating to the possession of firearms, the current understanding is that they could enforce the possession of the firearm on university property, the CPL law notwithstanding. Until such time as the law is changed, if a CPL holder chooses to carry on university property, they would be ostensibly subject to the law as written by the university. The most conservative interpretation of current law would be that "you are wrong", they could enforce the university code against students and non-students alike.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    DrTodd wrote:
    xd-40 wrote:
    UnSeen UnKnown wrote:
    College Carry: Concealed Carry Prohibited by Statute - Open Carry Generally Legal

    NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions

    I'm not sure if this applies to universities or not, but if your a student there I would assume they can enforce it upon you seeing as it may be a policy of the campus.

    concealed carry prohibited in classrooms and dorms by statute, OC legal, CC legal outside classrooms and dorms.
    xd-40 is correct as far as the Concealed Pistol law itself is concerned BUT, as regards preemption, since Universities/Colleges are not listed as being preempted by the state in matters relating to the possession of firearms, the current understanding is that they could enforce the possession of the firearm on university property, the CPL law notwithstanding. Until such time as the law is changed, if a CPL holder chooses to carry on university property, they would be ostensibly subject to the law as written by the university. The most conservative interpretation of current law would be that "you are wrong", they could enforce the university code against students and non-students alike.
    I believe this is true if an ordinance was enacted by the university, but a policy wouldn't really apply to non staff/students but non/staff/studentsmightbe subject toa possible trespass charge.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    I don't know what institute you're referring to, since you didn't mention it. But I once asked MSU PD about passing through their area to East Lansing. I was told, as long as I had no intended ending destination within MSU, there was no problem with me just passing thru with my pistol. However, if I intended to stop for any length of time on MSU property, then I should stop by their station first, and bring in my UNLOADED firearm to be stored in their station.


    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Post imported post

    I'm guessing it's Western Michigan since he's in Kalamazoo.

    And I think he mentioned it once or twice before :P

    Bronson

    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    I'm familiar with WMU's campus.

    Many roads on campus only lead to campus buildings.

    Simply put, you need to determine which ones are considered private roads, not plowed by the city of Kalamazoo (or county, for that matter). Those should be safe for your travels. If any are maintained exclusively by the University, then you're possibly overstepping the bounds.

  9. #9
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    Yep, WMU is correct. So the whole 'my car is my property thing' that I thought I'd heard somewhere doesn't hold water? I didn't know if there was any law that states that or not (or if it's just something I heard somewhere.)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    So if I am a student at a University, and have my gun in my truck, and the truck is parked on campuswhile I go to class this is not allowed either? I have not done this yet because I have an apartment close to school, but have been wondering it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    T Vance wrote:
    So if I am a student at a University, and have my gun in my truck, and the truck is parked on campuswhile I go to class this is not allowed either? I have not done this yet because I have an apartment close to school, but have been wondering it.
    I highly doubt you will find a University/College anywhere in Michigan whose policyallows students and faculty to carry or store firearms on campus. There are some exemptions for students and faculty, for example,who are involved in sporting events held by the University/College. IIRC, MSUhasrifle and archery competitions.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    I believe MSU PD has storage in the station. So you could store weapons on campus, but it would be at the MSU police station.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Big Gay Al wrote:
    I believe MSU PD has storage in the station. So you could store weapons on campus, but it would be at the MSU police station.
    I'm fairly certain most Universities/Colleges have some sort of weapon (guns & bows)storage in the Campus PD Buildings. But I/we were talking about storage in vehicles. I know, I should have been more specific.

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    Yeah, they don't want you to store any weapons in your vehicle on campus. Regardless how little time you intend to be on campus.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Houghton, MI, ,
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    As far as Vehicle storage as long as it's in your trunk (and unloaded) the MTU police don't care. Last year they actually encouraged it because otherwise they would have had to have someone unlock weapons storage in their office.

    Up until this year the weapons storage used to be located inside the residence hall. You just had to have someone from Facilities Mgmt. unlock the storage room to get to the locker. I think it has a lot to do with a large quantity of the campus having hunting rifles and what not.

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    MTU?

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Big Gay Al wrote:
    MTU?
    Michigan Tech

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    145

    Post imported post

    I've been wondering about this too. Suppose I want to go the bank, and I want to OC as well. The most direct route requires that I go down State street and South University, both of which have major U of M buildings on both sides of the street. Are the sidewalks okay? Should I stay partially in the road? I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of the local PDs, I may have to get official.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    Are the buildings considered part of UM campus, or are they simply owned by UM?
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    Rogue9er wrote:
    I've been wondering about this too. Suppose I want to go the bank, and I want to OC as well. The most direct route requires that I go down State street and South University, both of which have major U of M buildings on both sides of the street. Are the sidewalks okay? Should I stay partially in the road? I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of the local PDs, I may have to get official.
    If the roads are public and the sidewalks are public that is other businesses are along the sidewalks My opinion is that you are okay. It's the roads and sidewalks that are entirely surrounded by U of M campus that may be a problem.

    I have heard that the lawyers for U of M and MSU (same firm) will not prosecute for firearm violations in regards to CPL holders (other than students) because they don't want to have a case that supports Preemption if they should lose the prosecution..
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    145

    Post imported post

    According to Article X of the regent's ordinances, it doesn't matter whether the building is owned or part of campus. It's a misdemeanor to posses a "weapon" on any land that is "owned, leased, or otherwise controlled" by the Regents.

    And yeah, I'm talking about roads that have the Union on one side and the art museum on the other, or the grad library and a dorm on either side. It's complicated. I hear that U of M campus police can cite people for traffic violations in such places, so I'm pretty suspicious about what that might entail. However, I did hear about one guy who got narced on after he left a group of smokers, with some ganj in his pocket. He was on a similar surrounded sidewalk, so when the cops found him, he was on the sidewalk and was fine. So I just don't know, and as Venator said, no one wants to find out.

    I might have to try to drag an answer out of them, in writing.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954

    Post imported post

    If the road and/or sidewalk is public, then I don't think they control it. One way to find out, have a minor fender bender there, call the police and see who shows up to write the report.

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    Rogue9er wrote:
    I've been wondering about this too. Suppose I want to go the bank, and I want to OC as well. The most direct route requires that I go down State street and South University, both of which have major U of M buildings on both sides of the street. Are the sidewalks okay? Should I stay partially in the road? I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of the local PDs, I may have to get official.
    The university owns a good portion of the land downtown, and rents it to local businesses.

    However, they do not own the thoroughfares (roads, sidewalks). They have a contract with the city to maintain the sidewalks near campus, though. Watch out for sidewalks not adjacent to main roadways. Those are property of the university, or private - one of the two.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •