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Thread: Simultaneous Open Carry

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    Given law enforcement over-reaction to "man with a gun calls" I'm thinking out loud if thereare merits to a simultaneous open carry focusing on one jurisdiction at a time.

    IE, if there is a municipality with 5 cops on in a given shift. If we had 6 or 7 people to simultaneously open carry at various locations in the city, the police would have their resources over-extended to try to detain each one. They would almost be forced to "screen" the calls asking people if there is anything other than just a "person carrying"

    I recognize larger municipalities would have more officers on duty any given time, but just a thought of something we could do at over-zealous smaller municipalities.





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    I think neighboring police stations, the county sheriff deputies,and state police would be requisitioned to answer all man with a gun calls. But ultimately, they could not keep up the practice andthen, yes they would need to start screening calls.

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    Yes, they'd call in the cavalry from nearby jurisdictions and the county. Also, the plan would depend upon people actually calling in all the reports within a certain time frame. What if 5 guys are walking around and nobody takes notice or bothers to call, whereas one guy has all 6 cops on duty there "discussing his rights."
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    So who will be the first sacrificial lamb to OC PUBLICLY, in the City of Milwaukee, taking in consideration what Mr. Wagner hasstated.........

    How am I to know when and if I'm within 1000 FT/Yards (whatever) of a school? Therein comes the training, certification and exemption of the school issue. For now stay clear of schools to the best of my knowledge..Right ?

    Commonsense areas prohibiting OC are just that.....more training, certification acknowledging said areas. For now, Utilize Common Sense.

    What other areas restrict the right to OC in theCity of Milwaukee other than the aforementioned ?

    Now for the Lamb.....it could be ME :?or will it be YOU

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    wiUPSR wrote:
    So who will be the first sacrificial lamb to OC PUBLICLY, in the City of Milwaukee, taking in consideration what Mr. Wagner hasstated.........

    Now for the Lamb.....it could be ME :?or will it be YOU
    This "sacrificial lamb" if that is even the right term...could be very rich in 2 years when he sues the city and wins for violation of civil rights (probably multiple rights) under color of law.

    It will only take one big lawsuit to make the city cops change their behavior, unless they get the idea behind only good people open carrying beforehand.

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    wiUPSR wrote:
    So who will be the first sacrificial lamb to OC PUBLICLY, in the City of Milwaukee,
    ........ I already have, not much happened. When I get another handgun (or get mine back) I'll go right back to business as usual. Although Flynn's threat has pretty much assured me I will be jailed as I do not give my name unless an officer has reasonable suspicion that I committed a crime, which they know they do not have since Monday.

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    Shotgun wrote:
    Yes, they'd call in the cavalry from nearby jurisdictions and the county. Also, the plan would depend upon people actually calling in all the reports within a certain time frame. What if 5 guys are walking around and nobody takes notice or bothers to call, whereas one guy has all 6 cops on duty there "discussing his rights."


    Ya know, shotgun, if I were to know where a man might be open carrying, I might drive past, and I just might be scared enough to call the police.


    In a parallel universe, the same situation could be happening at the same time. wink wink.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Given law enforcement over-reaction to "man with a gun calls" I'm thinking out loud if thereare merits to a simultaneous open carry focusing on one jurisdiction at a time.

    IE, if there is a municipality with 5 cops on in a given shift. If we had 6 or 7 people to simultaneously open carry at various locations in the city, the police would have their resources over-extended to try to detain each one. They would almost be forced to "screen" the calls asking people if there is anything other than just a "person carrying"

    I recognize larger municipalities would have more officers on duty any given time, but just a thought of something we could do at over-zealous smaller municipalities.



    Let me see if I understand this correctly....So you are saying you want to"jam up" a police department? What if a actual emergency were to happen and officers were busy answering these man w/ a gun calls? I thought you all here were "law abiding"? It's stupid to even suggest an idea like that.

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    If an emergency came over the radio, they would leave.

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    P.I. Guy wrote:
    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Given law enforcement over-reaction to "man with a gun calls" I'm thinking out loud if thereare merits to a simultaneous open carry focusing on one jurisdiction at a time.

    IE, if there is a municipality with 5 cops on in a given shift. If we had 6 or 7 people to simultaneously open carry at various locations in the city, the police would have their resources over-extended to try to detain each one. They would almost be forced to "screen" the calls asking people if there is anything other than just a "person carrying"

    I recognize larger municipalities would have more officers on duty any given time, but just a thought of something we could do at over-zealous smaller municipalities.



    Let me see if I understand this correctly....So you are saying you want to"jam up" a police department? What if a actual emergency were to happen and officers were busy answering these man w/ a gun calls? I thought you all here were "law abiding"? It's stupid to even suggest an idea like that.
    HUH? how would this "jam up" a police department, as you so eloquently put it?
    Officer responds, see's nothing illegal happening, radio's in that it was a hoax call and he/she is RTB, Nocontact is made with the individual exercising his/her 2A rights, Situation over! back to whatever they were doing before they were dispatched.

    Where is the jam happening?

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    P.I. Guy wrote:
    Let me see if I understand this correctly....So you are saying you want to"jam up" a police department? What if a actual emergency were to happen and officers were busy answering these man w/ a gun calls? I thought you all here were "law abiding"? It's stupid to even suggest an idea like that.
    Once the officers make contact with the person and figure out that the person is no threat, they should move on. The LEOs staying there is their own choice so they are jamming up their own department.

    I have seen officers regularly pull someone over, get out, then get back into their car and drive away since they have been prioritized somewhere else. By your logic cops on traffic patrol and asking for backup during a traffic stop is also jamming up the police department. The LEOs are free to leave at any time depending on other possible crimes which are being committed. No LEO would keep asking questions of an OCer when a bank robbery is happening two blocks away.

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    Let me see if I understand this correctly....So you are saying you want to"jam up" a police department? What if a actual emergency were to happen and officers were busy answering these man w/ a gun calls? I thought you all here were "law abiding"? It's stupid to even suggest an idea like that.
    Then the dispatcher will have to do what they SHOULD do and BEFORE they dispatch an officer and utilize resources ASK the caller "what is the person doing" "are they doing anything wrong"





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    Let me see if I understand this correctly....So you are saying you want to"jam up" a police department? What if a actual emergency were to happen and officers were busy answering these man w/ a gun calls? I thought you all here were "law abiding"? It's stupid to even suggest an idea like that.

    Police departments tier their calls. "Man walking down the street with a gun" gets downgraded below "Help! there is someone kicking in my door and threatening to kill me." That is why it takes 3 hours to get a cop to show up and write a report on your fender bender.

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    When they get 5 differentcalls for a man w/a gun and a accident happens at the same time, do you think they are going to disregard the man w/ a gun calls? It's just a irresponsable, stupid idea.

    JMHO

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    P.I. Guy wrote:
    When they get 5 differentcalls for a man w/a gun and a accident happens at the same time, do you think they are going to disregard the man w/ a gun calls? It's just a irresponsable, stupid idea.

    JMHO
    True, Man With a Gun will be higher priority than a Motor Vehicle Accident but what good are the police at an accident? You need the Fire Department, EMT's and Paramedics. Police are just going to fill out paper work.

    Whatever, not looking for an argument. I just don't expect the police will be there when it counts regardless. Which is why I want to be able to protect myself and not rely on the government. I digress...





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    PI GUY, this is not a binary situation. Police don't just get a "man with a gun" call.

    They get a call from an individual who they have the opportunity to probe and ask questions of:

    So hyperbole aside, its not "a man with a gun" vs a "car accident"

    its "ok there is a man with a gun, thank-you for the call, can you tell me what the man is doing"

    "Is the gun openly carried in a holster?"

    "is anyone being threatened"

    I mean dispatchersare trained professionals are they not.I SHOULD HOPE they can do something other than pick up a phone say hi, take an address, and send police.



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    Do you honestly think police in the other open carry states like AZ dispatch police to every "man with gun" call?

    Dispatcher "911, what is your emergency"

    Caller "There is a man with a gun over here in Walmart on Main st."

    Dispatcher "What's he doing"

    Caller "um, he is putting frozen pizzas in his cart"

    Dispatcher "Mam, carrying a firearm is legal in this state. If he takes his weapon out of his holster, acts in a threatening or violent way, please call us back right away."

    Caller "ahhh, ok"

    Eventually, if enough people in Wisconsin open carry, the police dispatchers will respond exactly the same way. They will not have a choice because departments will be overwhelmed wasting most of their time checking out lawful open carriers.

    If police departments want to expend their time looking into open carriers, that is on them, not us. It is their decision, not ours.

    IMHO


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    Max wrote:
    Eventually, if enough people in Wisconsin open carry, the police dispatchers will respond exactly the same way. They will not have a choice because departments will be overwhelmed wasting most of their time checking out lawful open carriers.
    At this point, WE own our own destiny. The more we carry, the more commonplace it will appear and the public will stop calling the police after a while. The less we carry, we will be inundated with MWAG calls for years and law enforcement may forget their training on how to handle OC calls.

    People we have no reason to fear LEOs anymore on this issue...whenever you are ready you should start regular OC in public. I have, here in Waukesha. Yes, expect to be contacted by LEOs at some point. But simply read on the internet on how to respond to such inquirires. Van Hollen even said in the memo that he hopes officers don't stop someone simply because they are carrying...he's trying to point officers in the right direction about initiating contact and detaining. They will only heed this advice once they have seen a some OCers who are clearly law-abiding and not a threat to anybody. It's up to us now, to exercise our rights and own our own destiny one year from now. We must "strike while the iron is hot" so to speak, given all the media coverage of OC, to allow people to SEE US OC peacefully while it is fresh in their minds.

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    I'm in for an open carry. Here are my big questions.

    1. Who will back us up with legal representation if we get harrassed or arrested?

    2. How can we get everyone (including me)educated on all of the law, including identification, obstruction of justice, and terry stop law?

    3. How can we make sure everything is taped so that there is no doubt in a court case?

    4. How can we maximize this? (press, etc, so that people are more exposed to guns and realize their rightful place in our society, and also so the cops who think they are above the law are corrected)



    I'm jacked for this!

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    1: Lawyers love open and shut cases and will probably be calling you. Then they'll file a 4A case in Federal Court in which you can collect damages and pay the lawyer.

    2: It is up to you to learn the laws in this state. This web forum is a great place to stop. If stopped by a LEO during open carry, you may provide your name and etc if asked. You may also ask if you are free to leave. If they say that you are not, get arrested peacefully and see #1 above.

    3: This is up to you, including knowing the state's voice recorder laws (which I do not).

    4: Read this forum some more; you'll get plenty of ideas. Go to the picnic threads for public events. If you are arrested, see #1 and the press will follow.
    I'm in for an open carry. Here are my big questions.

    1. Who will back us up with legal representation if we get harrassed or arrested?

    2. How can we get everyone (including me)educated on all of the law, including identification, obstruction of justice, and terry stop law?

    3. How can we make sure everything is taped so that there is no doubt in a court case?

    4. How can we maximize this? (press, etc, so that people are more exposed to guns and realize their rightful place in our society, and also so the cops who think they are above the law are corrected)



    I'm jacked for this!
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Given law enforcement over-reaction to "man with a gun calls" I'm thinking out loud if thereare merits to a simultaneous open carry focusing on one jurisdiction at a time.

    IE, if there is a municipality with 5 cops on in a given shift. If we had 6 or 7 people to simultaneously open carry at various locations in the city, the police would have their resources over-extended to try to detain each one. They would almost be forced to "screen" the calls asking people if there is anything other than just a "person carrying"

    I recognize larger municipalities would have more officers on duty any given time, but just a thought of something we could do at over-zealous smaller municipalities.
    Interesting idea, but I think this "surge" tactic is probably not what we need in most of Wisconsin - what is probably best is low key normal unremarkable OC - the kind of conduct that people barely notice and then when they do, they say or think, oh, one of those open carriers - i read about that. Hmm.

    With all teh school zone and car carry problems, calling for folks unfamiliar with terrain i a given area might get them in trouble too.

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    P.I. Guy wrote:
    When they get 5 differentcalls for a man w/a gun and a accident happens at the same time, do you think they are going to disregard the man w/ a gun calls?
    In practice what has happenned in the states where OC has become popular, the 911 dispatchers start triaging the calls - asking the caller if the OCer is doing anything illegal or htreatening and explaining that OC is legal - this results in, duh,fewer dispatches.

    i know this because in states where OC has grown to be frankly, unremarkable, the police don;t want anything to do with OCers who know what they are doing - we will FOIA the 911 call, and rub everybody;s noses in it if the police conduct a non-consensual stop - and if they balk at fulfilling the 911 FOIA request, great, we sue them and get the press in on it - they love FOIA - then we show up OCing to public meetings and calmly speak for 3 minutes against unlawful police responses - believe me, it works like freakin' drano.

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    Interesting idea, but I think this "surge" tactic is probably not what we need in most of Wisconsin
    I agree. I started this topic when I thought (because of Ed Flynns inflamatory remarks, and remarks I've heard from other departments) that they were going to "put down on the ground" people who Open Carry.

    Having now open carried 5 times in 5 different very public places in the past week, and reading stories of others who have, I think the police were rattling the cage as hard as they could for media purposes, but in reality KNOW they are overstepping if they start putting people on the ground etc.

    Everyone should OC as they wish now. They have nothing to fear. Worst case scenario I'd expect is for the police to stop and ask you some consentual questions. I'd be exceptionally surprised if anyone gets arrested NOW after ALL this. If you ARE arrested (which I think is EXCEPTIONALLY unlikely) I can tell you that I have MULTIPLE local television stations that have asked me to PLEASE let them know if anyone is arrested. That kind of publicity is valuable in terms of keeping law enforcement "honest" in their dealings with you. But again, unless you are doing something else wrong, you shouldn't worry about being arrested for OC. Stopped and questioned. Perhaps. Kindly give them your name if you wish, and ask if you are free to go. They might run your name, if they do anddetermine you aren't a felon you'll beon your way.

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    Saturday, May 9th I'll be open carrying downtown Milwaukee in the early afternoon. I'll have a couple friends with me with cameras JIC our LEO's get a bit over-zealous. Anyone care for a walk downtown? I need to buy some nice shoes, was thinking about checking out Grand Ave Mall for a bit.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I think the police were rattling the cage as hard as they could for media purposes, but in reality KNOW they are overstepping if they start putting people on the ground etc.
    I agree, and I hope were right. Even though it might just be that people aren't calling the police on open carriers I too think they were rattling the cage. This is "getting me moreout of the closet" in a way (not a gay way lmao) and giving me more courage to do it in public places, "simultaneous open carry." I know I can't afford attorny fees or what not but as the last few weeks passed and police remained inactive in "putting us on the ground" this or soon may be the time for some of us younger or/and very fiscally tight open carriers to proceed with more public open carry. I'm not saying any of you are rich because I'm pretty sure no one here is "rich" I mean more living paycheck to paycheck ie. college students or those laid off, rather than those finantially stable.

    Ben

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