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Thread: Harassment by Four "LEOs"

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    I strapped on my 1911 Colt Gov in a high gloss Safari-land holster andparked at a parking garage near Main St and 6th or 7th St. My Wife and I walked all the way to the2nd street bridge and the river. It was about 2pm and a large crowd was already gathering. We saved our spot until some friends showed so we could walk around. We walked around all the vendors, the Great Lawn,... everywhere! Nobody said anything!

    About 5pm I decided to leave my wife with some of her friends and take a walk. I went down Main St and decided to get something to drink at the Subway on Main St and 6th St. I walked in ordered my drink and walked towards the front exit/entrance door. As I approached the door, three men approached me and asked me to step outside with them. You talk about getting nervous all of a sudden, I didn't know what to think! One man lifted his shirt to show me his Glock concealed inside his paints and pulled a badge out of his wallet that said Narcotics, and he told me that he was an officer. Not having much of a choice, I politely complied with their request.

    When we stepped outside I asked what the gentlemen needed, and they asked me if I was an officer. I told them no I was not, and I asked them if they were officers. All three of the men said they were. About this time, a fourth man joined them. I didn't know what to think.... I'm imagining getting robbed of my weapon and beaten about this point. It was getting very hard to stay calm, but somehow I managed to remained calm and polite.

    The man with the narcotics badge asked me if I had a CCW. I reply that I am an Indiana resident and I have my Indiana LTC, a Pennsylvania LTC, and a Louisville/JeffersonCounty Armed Guards Permit. The officer then begins to ask me why I am openly carrying my weapon and begins tothreatening to take me to jail. He ask to see my LTC, so I handed the three of themover to him. He calls andruns a warrant check on me, and I came back clear. I told the officer that I thought Kentucky was an open carry state, and he responded by saying "It is as long as I am not bothering anyone." He said that while I was in Subway getting my drink, that he "...saw four people turn their head to see why I had a gun on my side", and that he should arrest me for disorderly conduct, and confiscate my weapon.

    The other three people surrounding me were all harassing me by this point saying similar things about how I should be going to jail right now for the disturbance I am creating, andabout how I need to conceal the weapon if I am going to be carrying it, because it is a "concealed carry license, not an open carry license here in Kentucky." They told me to untuck my shirt and cover the gun to conceal it. I did as they requested, but Safari-Land holsters stick out a couple of inches, making me now look like I am obviously hiding a gun. The four men told me I am free to leave as long as I keep my weapon concealed. I left their presence peacefully.

    I know I should have gotten there badge numbers and complained, but I didn't feel like watching Thunder Over Louisville in jail. The four "officers" were very rude. I have openly carried my 1911 Colt Gov everywhere in downtown Louisville, but it just goes to show you that there are some LEOs will overstep their boundaries to flex their muscles and show you who is boss. Most LEOs in Louisville are very kind and gun friendly, but be careful!!!

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    rajiii2002 wrote:
    I strapped on my 1911 Colt Gov in a high gloss Safari-land holster andparked at a parking garage near Main St and 6th or 7th St. My Wife and I walked all the way to the2nd street bridge and the river. It was about 2pm and a large crowd was already gathering. We saved our spot until some friends showed so we could walk around. We walked around all the vendors, the Great Lawn,... everywhere! Nobody said anything!

    About 5pm I decided to leave my wife with some of her friends and take a walk. I went down Main St and decided to get something to drink at the Subway on Main St and 6th St. I walked in ordered my drink and walked towards the front exit/entrance door. As I approached the door, three men approached me and asked me to step outside with them. You talk about getting nervous all of a sudden, I didn't know what to think! One man lifted his shirt to show me his Glock concealed inside his paints and pulled a badge out of his wallet that said Narcotics, and he told me that he was an officer. Not having much of a choice, I politely complied with their request.

    When we stepped outside I asked what the gentlemen needed, and they asked me if I was an officer. I told them no I was not, and I asked them if they were officers. All three of the men said they were. About this time, a fourth man joined them. I didn't know what to think.... I'm imagining getting robbed of my weapon and beaten about this point. It was getting very hard to stay calm, but somehow I managed to remained calm and polite.

    The man with the narcotics badge asked me if I had a CCW. I reply that I am an Indiana resident and I have my Indiana LTC, a Pennsylvania LTC, and a Louisville/JeffersonCounty Armed Guards Permit. The officer then begins to ask me why I am openly carrying my weapon and begins tothreatening to take me to jail. He ask to see my LTC, so I handed the three of themover to him. He calls andruns a warrant check on me, and I came back clear. I told the officer that I thought Kentucky was an open carry state, and he responded by saying "It is as long as I am not bothering anyone." He said that while I was in Subway getting my drink, that he "...saw four people turn their head to see why I had a gun on my side", and that he should arrest me for disorderly conduct, and confiscate my weapon.

    The other three people surrounding me were all harassing me by this point saying similar things about how I should be going to jail right now for the disturbance I am creating, andabout how I need to conceal the weapon if I am going to be carrying it, because it is a "concealed carry license, not an open carry license here in Kentucky." They told me to untuck my shirt and cover the gun to conceal it. I did as they requested, but Safari-Land holsters stick out a couple of inches, making me now look like I am obviously hiding a gun. The four men told me I am free to leave as long as I keep my weapon concealed. I left their presence peacefully.

    I know I should have gotten there badge numbers and complained, but I didn't feel like watching Thunder Over Louisville in jail. The four "officers" were very rude. I have openly carried my 1911 Colt Gov everywhere in downtown Louisville, but it just goes to show you that there are some LEOs will overstep their boundaries to flex their muscles and show you who is boss. Most LEOs in Louisville are very kind and gun friendly, but be careful!!!
    Personally I don't believe this for a dam minute. He raised his shirt to display a weapon and then produced a badge. I think this is a post from an anti trying to discourage open carry. You didn't get their names ? Yep open carry folks just let cops pull this BS and forget to get their names. You are pathetic.

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    overposted

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    rajiii2002 wrote:
    I strapped on my 1911 Colt Gov in a high gloss Safari-land holster andparked at a parking garage near Main St and 6th or 7th St. My Wife and I walked all the way to the2nd street bridge and the river. It was about 2pm and a large crowd was already gathering. We saved our spot until some friends showed so we could walk around. We walked around all the vendors, the Great Lawn,... everywhere! Nobody said anything!

    About 5pm I decided to leave my wife with some of her friends and take a walk. I went down Main St and decided to get something to drink at the Subway on Main St and 6th St. I walked in ordered my drink and walked towards the front exit/entrance door. As I approached the door, three men approached me and asked me to step outside with them. You talk about getting nervous all of a sudden, I didn't know what to think! One man lifted his shirt to show me his Glock concealed inside his paints and pulled a badge out of his wallet that said Narcotics, and he told me that he was an officer. Not having much of a choice, I politely complied with their request.

    When we stepped outside I asked what the gentlemen needed, and they asked me if I was an officer. I told them no I was not, and I asked them if they were officers. All three of the men said they were. About this time, a fourth man joined them. I didn't know what to think.... I'm imagining getting robbed of my weapon and beaten about this point. It was getting very hard to stay calm, but somehow I managed to remained calm and polite.

    The man with the narcotics badge asked me if I had a CCW. I reply that I am an Indiana resident and I have my Indiana LTC, a Pennsylvania LTC, and a Louisville/JeffersonCounty Armed Guards Permit. The officer then begins to ask me why I am openly carrying my weapon and begins tothreatening to take me to jail. He ask to see my LTC, so I handed the three of themover to him. He calls andruns a warrant check on me, and I came back clear. I told the officer that I thought Kentucky was an open carry state, and he responded by saying "It is as long as I am not bothering anyone." He said that while I was in Subway getting my drink, that he "...saw four people turn their head to see why I had a gun on my side", and that he should arrest me for disorderly conduct, and confiscate my weapon.

    The other three people surrounding me were all harassing me by this point saying similar things about how I should be going to jail right now for the disturbance I am creating, andabout how I need to conceal the weapon if I am going to be carrying it, because it is a "concealed carry license, not an open carry license here in Kentucky." They told me to untuck my shirt and cover the gun to conceal it. I did as they requested, but Safari-Land holsters stick out a couple of inches, making me now look like I am obviously hiding a gun. The four men told me I am free to leave as long as I keep my weapon concealed. I left their presence peacefully.

    I know I should have gotten there badge numbers and complained, but I didn't feel like watching Thunder Over Louisville in jail. The four "officers" were very rude. I have openly carried my 1911 Colt Gov everywhere in downtown Louisville, but it just goes to show you that there are some LEOs will overstep their boundaries to flex their muscles and show you who is boss. Most LEOs in Louisville are very kind and gun friendly, but be careful!!!

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    I have a hard time believing this also. Only an account, no names. Give us more information. You are the only one I have heard of that has had a problem. Officer's were well educated on the carry of firearms prior to Thunder...
    Speed is fine
    Accuracy is final

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    You are the only one I have heard of that has had a problem
    At TOL or in general? What about the other harassment accounts in Louisville?

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    I'm not buying this story either. Too many flaws.

    1) Three men asked him to step outside? I'm not stepping outside with anyone I don't know, especially 3 people. IF he had really been approached by LEO they would have ID themselves as such right off the bat.

    2) No plain clothes officer is going to "pull up his shirt and display his Glock" before he shows his badge. That's a good way to get shot. If this had happened to me and I didn't know I was dealing with LEO's I would have been clearing leather as soon as that guy started pulling up that shirt.

    3) I doubt that Narcs or any other plain clothes officer is going to bother someone who is lawully carrying a firearm openly without just cause. Narc's especially, because they work undercover and can't risk being seen doing patrol type work.

    4) as already stated, he didn't get names or badge numbers? Not even one?

    5) any one can "say" they are LEO. They better show badges to prove it, WHEN THEY APPROACH

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    Yet another (alleged) incident of harassment that could have been caught on a Flip Mino (HD) discreet camcorder. This would have made a great youtube video for the post arrest lawsuit against the Louisville PD and the officers involved, showing abuse of power and false arrest, although it's far more likely the camera would have instantly changed the behavior of the officers in the beginning of the encounter. Pay particular attention to the features bolded and underlined below.

    http://www.theflip.com/store/MinoHD.aspx

    Dimensions:3.94” x 1.97” x 0.63” (H x W x D)
    • Instantly upload to AOL, MySpace, YouTube and other video sites
    • The world’s smallest HD camcorder, weighing only 3.3 ounces
    • Built-in memory for up to 60 minutes of high-quality video
    • Start recording within 3 seconds of power-up
    • Silent mode for recording in sensitive situation
    This thing is tiny, but these two features make this device perfect for those who open carry. The device should be kept visible around your neck using the attached lanyard, perhaps in a shirt pocket if available, so you don't have to "reach for something" in your pocket when encountering an officer. Therefore, if left in your pocket (or purse), it will be useless during an encounter. Get the HD version of this camcorder so the badge number(s) will be visible when you playback the video.

    One word of warning, though. While I cannot give legal advice here (and I am not), if the officer asks you to turn it off, or to "give" the camera to them, there may be no legal obligation to comply. The act of giving the device to them is the consent that is needed for the duration of the detainment. If they reach for the device to confiscate it, do NOT resist or complain. You can settle it later in court, and get it back since it contains evidence. It's my understanding officers have no authority to confiscate such devices unless the device was suspected to contain evidence of a crime, and it would also be interpreted to be an attempt to confiscate evidence against them in court. No judge would look highly on such confiscation, so it's unlikely to happen. If you do not have one of these devices, it's your word against theirs (in addition to any witnesses with you).

    While I would much prefer not to carry such a device everywhere I go, so not as to appear as an antagonist, I will not OC without it until such oppression is corrected, and rights are upheld.

    Get familiar with http://www.flexyourrights.org/, an organization that "provides the general public with the finest educational media available for teaching people to understand, appreciate, and assert their constitutional rights during police encounters.", and watch the video "Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters" for free on youtube.

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    they're
    their
    there

    look them up

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    If there is no complainant, there is no crime. Four people 'looking' does not constitute disorderly conduct. I'm not buying the 'Narc' badge. You're a cop or you're not. The Division you're working out of (in my experience) doesn't indicate Narc or Traffic or Homicide or anything. Flashinga gun is really wierd... before the badge. SOP is to announce yoursef as "Police Officer"... not 'Come with us'. Screw that...

    No names, no other badges? Narcs arent' gonna do patrol stuff... Not their job. If they made somebody... they'll call for a patrol cop. The post officer. This story sounds fishy.

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    I'm new here, but registered simply to respond to this post.





    You're full of it. LMPD doesn't have badges that say "Narcotics" on them. Neither does Shively, J-town, JCSO, or any of the other numerous agencies that are in Louisville. Of course, being that you were at Thunder and "confronted" by four officers....the odds that they were anyone other than LMPD aren't very good, especially if they were plain clothes.



    I know fora fact that LMPD doesn't put "Narcotics" on their badges. They say things like "Officer", "Sergeant", or "Detective". At least, the ones I've seen do...and I see one in particularevery day.

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    Guard wrote:
    I'm new here, but registered simply to respond to this post.

    You're full of it. LMPD doesn't have badges that say "Narcotics" on them. Neither does Shively, J-town, JCSO, or any of the other numerous agencies that are in Louisville. Of course, being that you were at Thunder and "confronted" by four officers....the odds that they were anyone other than LMPD aren't very good, especially if they were plain clothes.

    I know fora fact that LMPD doesn't put "Narcotics" on their badges. They say things like "Officer", "Sergeant", or "Detective". At least, the ones I've seen do...and I see one in particularevery day.
    Methinks rajiii2002is having severe fantasies... or somethin' really wierd was goin' on. 'Haven't seen him post anymore. Why make up these fairy tales?

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Guard wrote:
    I'm new here, but registered simply to respond to this post.

    You're full of it. LMPD doesn't have badges that say "Narcotics" on them. Neither does Shively, J-town, JCSO, or any of the other numerous agencies that are in Louisville. Of course, being that you were at Thunder and "confronted" by four officers....the odds that they were anyone other than LMPD aren't very good, especially if they were plain clothes.

    I know fora fact that LMPD doesn't put "Narcotics" on their badges. They say things like "Officer", "Sergeant", or "Detective". At least, the ones I've seen do...and I see one in particularevery day.
    Methinks rajiii2002is having severe fantasies... or somethin' really wierd was goin' on. 'Haven't seen him post anymore. Why make up these fairy tales?
    Why post false stories on these forums? It's simple, really. those that post such fantasies are attempting to provoke us into reacting in a manner that would be self destrutive.

    We know that this forum has been infiltrated by anti 2A advocates. They will try to incite panic within our ranks in hopes of getting us to hit the streets and make fools of ourselves over false reports. We have to be smarter than them (not that hard) and demand varification for all reports.

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    Statesman wrote:
    Get familiar with http://www.flexyourrights.org/, an organization that "provides the general public with the finest educational media available for teaching people to understand, appreciate, and assert their constitutional rights during police encounters.", and watch the video "Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters" for free on youtube.
    Unfortunately flexyourights.org is a wing of the American Communist Lawyers Union. They are all about helping criminals and druggies stay out of jail, but they fight tooth and nail to keep every imaginable gun control law in force.

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    rpyne wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    Get familiar with http://www.flexyourrights.org/, an organization that "provides the general public with the finest educational media available for teaching people to understand, appreciate, and assert their constitutional rights during police encounters.", and watch the video "Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters" for free on youtube.
    Unfortunately flexyourights.org is a wing of the American Communist Lawyers Union. They are all about helping criminals and druggies stay out of jail, but they fight tooth and nail to keep every imaginable gun control law in force.
    Which "they" are you talking about? Are you talking about ACLU advocating gun control or FlexYourRights?

    Also, aside from the narrator of their video being a former upper-level member of ACLU, I missed the information that FlexYourRights is a wing of the ACLU. Do you have some information--cites, links, etc.--that independent-minded folk can use to arrive at their own conclusion?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I don't know if this is real or not. But if this had happened with me. The way it's going with government oppression. I believe I would have been the next person winning a federal civil rights lawsuit against a municipality. I've read too many experiences to allow myself to give up my rights. But as I said, I don't think this happened. I was open carrying at the tea party with over a thousand people and I know all the cops there saw me carrying. I was never harassed.

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    "I work as an armedsecurity guard in Downtown Louisville (at one of the worst projects) and I work with a Detective, a Deputy Sheriff, and a handful of Sworn Corrections Officers. I have spent some time with each of them talking about OCing here in Louisville. All without exception have said that it is legal as long as you have a valid state ID and at least 3/4 of the firearm is visible."




    The above from one of his other posts...Seems to mehe isFOS about the encounter, or the four guys were impersonating police officers.
    I can tell you've been Rady8ed, you have a nice glow about you.

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    "at least 3/4 of the firearm is visible."

    This "3/4 visible" stuff is not backed by statute or precedent.

    I think he is FOS.

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    Have you noticed that it's been about a month now, and the OP hasn't re-posted to this thread again.

    Looks like a drive-by instigater.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Have you noticed that it's been about a month now, and the OP hasn't re-posted to this thread again.

    Looks like a drive-by instigater.
    Couldn't be. 'Gators are much smarter than this guy.

    I'd have to class him as an amphibian. Toad most likely. Frogs have more dignity than him.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    rajiii2002 wrote:
    I know I should have gotten there badge numbers and complained,
    You should have asked for a business card from their leader; next time consider responding to request to cover up by saying, "well actually. i'm not going to conceal and I want you to call a supervisor right now or I will."

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    Forgive me, but I am rather suprised with the response of my post... You don't have to believe me, I was just stating what happened to me. I am a regular Open Carrier! I have studied many different states gun laws, and hold three state licenses to carry firearms. My post are exactly what I recalled happened, and I tried to give as much detail as I could. I started to "freak out" when I was approached by the three men so called "officers". Next time I might be a little more mentally prepared and can give you some names and badge numbers. I'm not at all trying to prevent anyone from OCing, but to maybe help them be a little more mentally prepared in case this happens to someone else. I still open carry everywhere in Louisville. I just didn't know what to do when all this happened to me, because "it is supposed to happen to everyone else".

    I regularly read post from opencarry.org, and I am a big supporter of carryinga firearm!! Sorry it took me a while to respond, I recently moved to Southern Indiana and did not have internet for about a month.

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    I am very surprised that nobody has replied to this thread after my last post... I am a truck driver now and I mis carrying firearms, but I am still an active member of these forums and I read them regularly. So, what has happened to everyone that attacked me in this thread?

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    Harrassment by 4 leos

    First of all you have no business oc'ing or cc for that matter if you are not prepared for it. That means both emotionally and phycally. You should have had a DVR ( voice recorder ) and you should have played some situations over in your mind so you would know how to act and what to do.
    A few hours in a classroom, a half dozen practice shots, and a few dollars for a piece of plastic with your pic. on it does in no way prepare you to carry a gun.

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    Then there is the matter of the post being 18 months old...and to what point is the glossiness of your holster relevant? And finally, what did you do to take action against what may have been four impersonators of cops? I've never seen a "Narcotics" badge. Cop badges are cop badges--rank, agency and some id number. Not what area they work. Even allowing for the fact they were real cops, which I doubt, what did you do? The ball was clearly in your court and you didn't follow-up post.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 10-19-2010 at 03:01 PM.

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