Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Social Security Number Required

  1. #1
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

    I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

    I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

    Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?

    JoeSparky
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

    I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

    I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

    Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?

    JoeSparky
    My original social security card was printed across the bottom, "Not To Be Used For Identification."

    That was more than a few years ago and my new card is not so marked.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

    I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

    I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

    Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?


    JoeSparky


    I got curious for the details myself.

    Edited to add: for some reason the text I tried to copy-and-paste wouldn't go through to this post.

    Here is a link instead: http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#10

    Scroll down to the heading: "Am I required to give my SSN to government agencies?"



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

    I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

    I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

    Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?

    JoeSparky
    So, sue them for violating Section 7 of the Fedral Privacy Act - I did and won re Pennsylvania. See Stollenwerk v. Miller at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf

    Did they provide a Section 7(b) privacy act wanring? Did they deny you for not havig or disclosing your SSN? That's what you need to get standing - injury in fact.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Rockingham, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    861

    Post imported post

    It is the card that is not to be used for identification purposes . Big Bother already hasyour number , he gave it to you .

    Of course I have always been to open .

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

    I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

    I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

    Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?

    JoeSparky
    So, sue them for violating Section 7 of the Fedral Privacy Act - I did and won re Pennsylvania. See Stollenwerk v. Miller at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf

    Did they provide a Section 7(b) privacy act wanring? Did they deny you for not havig or disclosing your SSN? That's what you need to get standing - injury in fact.
    Mike, I'm interested in finding out more about the statute. Do you have a link handy for those of us who do not totally understand the numbering system for the US Code?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    I looked directly at the statute in Utah that covers the requirements for issuance of the ORIGINAL permit and it lists the requirements but DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCLOSURE OF THE SSN!

    I can't for the life of me figure out why it would be required for a RENEWAL when it wasn't required for the original permit.

    Here is the link... for those that would like to review it and see if I missed it.

    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm]http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm]http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm[/url]
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    I looked directly at the statute in Utah that covers the requirements for issuance of the ORIGINAL permit and it lists the requirements but DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCLOSURE OF THE SSN!

    I can't for the life of me figure out why it would be required for a RENEWAL when it wasn't required for the original permit.

    Here is the link... for those that would like to review it and see if I missed it.

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm]http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm]http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm[/url]
    We just need to clear up the federal law. If Utah is in violation, you could make it your own project to get them to clean up their act.

    Read Mike's linked .pdfabout his lawsuit. He came out on the winning end of that.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post



    "Your application will
    not be processed unless this form is completely filled out, notarized and all applicable questions have been answered. Enclose the $10.00 fee (include $7.50 late fee if the permit is more than 30 days expired), and one current passport quality color photo. PLEASE WRITE YOUR NAME AND PERMIT # ON BACK OF PHOTO!! Applicants over one year expired will not be able to renew and must reapply. Payment may be made in the form of check, money order or credit card, made payable to “Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification”. Cash will be accepted if your application is submitted in person. FEES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE. DO NOT SEND CASH IN THE MAIL."



    The above is copied directly from the Utah Concealed Weapon Renewal form. Nowhere does the form give a Fed Title 7B disclosure. The SSN area does not indicate weather this is Mandatory or Voluntary. I would prefer to have Utah fix this issue BEFORE they get sued as I am a taxpayor also! I am tempted to copy and print Mike's successful suit and send it to them.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:



    "Your application will
    not be processed unless this form is completely filled out, notarized and all applicable questions have been answered. Enclose the $10.00 fee (include $7.50 late fee if the permit is more than 30 days expired), and one current passport quality color photo. PLEASE WRITE YOUR NAME AND PERMIT # ON BACK OF PHOTO!! Applicants over one year expired will not be able to renew and must reapply. Payment may be made in the form of check, money order or credit card, made payable to “Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification”. Cash will be accepted if your application is submitted in person. FEES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE. DO NOT SEND CASH IN THE MAIL."

    The above is copied directly from the Utah Concealed Weapon Renewal form. Nowhere does the form give a Fed Title 7B disclosure. The SSN area does not indicate weather this is Mandatory or Voluntary. I would prefer to have Utah fix this issue BEFORE they get sued as I am a taxpayor also! I am tempted to copy and print Mike's successful suit and send it to them.
    If you are comfortable you have the legalities figured out, go for it!

    I'm not sure what the proper channels are. Maybe the licensing authority with a copy tothe executive-branch attorney at roughly the same level. Say, the BCI and the state attorney general's office.

    +1 on the find.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Mike wrote: Mike, I'm interested in finding out more about the statute. Do you have a link handy for those of us who do not totally understand the numbering system for the US Code?
    http://www.fairfaxcountyprivacycounc...cyAct.html.htm

    For Utah, try applying without SSN and see what happens. A denial means a second violation beyond failing to administer proper warning.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Mike wrote: Mike, I'm interested in finding out more about the statute. Do you have a link handy for those of us who do not totally understand the numbering system for the US Code?
    http://www.fairfaxcountyprivacycounc...cyAct.html.htm
    Christ, and me a member, too. Thanks!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Provo, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,076

    Post imported post

    This is a recent change. When I applied back in November the SSN was marked as optional. I note that the revision date on the form is now 3/2009.


  14. #14
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    The online form from the BCI website that I linked has a 2008 date on the bottom. So, they need to update the online form!

    JoeSparky
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    The online form from the BCI website that I linked has a 2008 date on the bottom. So, they need to update the online form!

    OK.

    The Fairfax County Privacy Council website quotes federal law:

    (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it. (emphasis added)

    Y'all might also:

    1. Check to see that the updated paper form has the additional information required by federal law--by what authority, and whatuses.

    2. Make sure the on-line form is fully updated.

    http://www.fairfaxcountyprivacycounc...cyAct.html.htm

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    rpyne wrote:
    This is a recent change. When I applied back in November the SSN was marked as optional. I note that the revision date on the form is now 3/2009.
    The form dated 3/2009 is the 2 page form for the ORIGINAL application not the renewal. Also, on the online version there is no indication ANYWHERE that the SSN is optional. If fact the form instructions say to complete ALL entries and incomplete forms WILL NOT BE PROCESSED!

    The RENEWAL form (only 1 page ) does not indicate that the SSN is optional either. The online form revision date is 8/2008.

    Seems like I get to pursue this further--- and I was hoping that had been addressed already!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  17. #17
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    The following is a rough draft to be used on the online comments portion of Utah's Brearue(sp) of Criminal Investigation webpage. Any helpful suggestions regarding wording and formatting would be appreciated. I will also be sending a comparable communication to Utah's Attorney General with regard to this matter and will indicate to BCI that I have notified his office.

    "With regard to the application forms available online for both the ORIGINAL CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMIT and FIREARMS PERMIT RENEWAL applications I see that a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER (SSN) is REQUIRED.

    I don't see any indication in the Utah State Code U.C.A. 53-5-704 covering Conceal Firearms Law any authorization from the State Legislature to requiring the disclosure of one's SSN for a Concealed Firearms Permit.

    The instructions for each form indicate that ANY unanswered portions will result in the application not being processed. I understand that this is a FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT violation and places UTAH in LEGAL JEPORDY.

    Section 7 of PL 930579 [the Federal Privacy Act of 1974, 5 USC 552a note]
    Sec. 7 (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number.

    (2) the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to--
    (a) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
    (B) any disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of recoreds in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was reuired under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the indentity of an individual.

    (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it.]


    I would like to hear back from your office with regard to an anticipated time frame for this matter to be resolved to bring BCI in compliance with both State and Federal law.

    As a tax payer I would hate to have my tax dollars paid to someone who pursues a Federal Civil Rights Violation Action in this matter."
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    The following is a rough draft to be used on the online comments portion of Utah's Bureau of Criminal Investigation webpage. Any helpful suggestions regarding wording and formatting would be appreciated. I will also be sending a comparable communication to Utah's Attorney General with regard to this matter and will indicate to BCI that I have notified his office.

    "With regard to the application forms available online for both the ORIGINAL CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMIT and FIREARMS PERMIT RENEWAL applications I see that a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER (SSN) is REQUIRED.

    I don't see any indication in the Utah State Code U.C.A. 53-5-704 covering Conceal Firearms Law any authorization from the State Legislature to requiring the disclosure of one's SSN for a Concealed Firearms Permit.

    The instructions for each form indicate that ANY unanswered portions will result in the application not being processed. I understand that this is a FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT violation and places UTAH in LEGAL JEPORDY.

    Section 7 of PL 930579 [the Federal Privacy Act of 1974, 5 USC 552a note]
    Sec. 7 (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number.

    (2) the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to--
    (a) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
    (B) any disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of recoreds in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was reuired under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the indentity of an individual.

    (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it.]
    Non-compliance with the federal Privacy Act of 1974 regarding SSN's puts BCI and Utah at risk of expensive litigation.
    I would like to hear back from your office with regard to an anticipated time frame for this matter to be resolved to bring BCI in compliance with both State and Federal law.
    My suggestions in blue.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Citizen

    Thanks much...
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  20. #20
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    The following is a rough draft to be used on the online comments portion of Utah's Bureau of Criminal Investigation webpage. Any helpful suggestions regarding wording and formatting would be appreciated. I will also be sending a comparable communication to Utah's Attorney General with regard to this matter and will indicate to BCI that I have notified his office.

    "With regard to the application forms available online for both the ORIGINAL CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMIT and FIREARMS PERMIT RENEWAL applications I see that a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER (SSN) is REQUIRED.

    I don't see any indication in the Utah State Code U.C.A. 53-5-704 covering Conceal Firearms Law any authorization from the State Legislature to requiring the disclosure of one's SSN for a Concealed Firearms Permit.

    The instructions for each form indicate that ANY unanswered portions will result in the application not being processed. I understand that this is a FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT violation and places UTAH in LEGAL JEPORDY.

    Section 7 of PL 93-579 [the Federal Privacy Act of 1974, 5 USC 552a note]
    Sec. 7 (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number.

    (2) the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to--
    (a) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
    (B) any disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of recoreds in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was reuired under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the indentity of an individual.

    (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it.]
    Non-compliance with the federal Privacy Act of 1974 regarding SSN's puts BCI and Utah at risk of expensive litigation.
    I would like to hear back from your office with regard to an anticipated time frame for this matter to be resolved to bring BCI in compliance with both State and Federal law.
    My suggestions in blue.
    And I made a correction of my own...
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  21. #21
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    My permit expires in January, so when I renew, I will be writing a big fat "NOT REQUIRED" on that line. :celebrate
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  22. #22
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    My permit expires in January, so when I renew, I will be writing a big fat "NOT REQUIRED" on that line. :celebrate
    Or just remove the line altogether.... Mine is due for renewal a couple of months after yours.


    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  23. #23
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    Aside from being 21, sane and law abiding, these are the only otherrequirements listed in 53-5-704.


    53-5-704. Division duties
    (5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the applicant to provide:
    (a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
    (b) one recent dated photograph;
    (c) one set of fingerprints; and
    (d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
    (6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).

    Think I should leave out all of the other info on the application?
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Aside from being 21, sane and law abiding, these are the only otherrequirements listed in 53-5-704.


    53-5-704. Division duties
    (5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the applicant to provide:
    (a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
    (b) one recent dated photograph;
    (c) one set of fingerprints; and
    (d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
    (6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).

    Think I should leave out all of the other info on the application?
    Why not? That is the approach we've used successfully here in VA.

    Any nonsense, meaning any requirement not statutorily authorized, gets our attention.

    You want to make sure you've got all the legalities straight.

    Is Utah a "shall issue" state?

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Is Utah a "shall issue" state?
    Is this a trick question? :X

    Yes, arguably the most popular shall issue permit in the U.S. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •