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Kevin Jensen

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
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Aside from being 21, sane and law abiding, these are the only otherrequirements listed in 53-5-704.


53-5-704. Division duties
(5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the applicant to provide:
(a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
(b) one recent dated photograph;
(c) one set of fingerprints; and
(d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
(6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).
Click to expand...
Think I should leave out all of the other info on the application? ;)
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

SGT Jensen wrote:
Aside from being 21, sane and law abiding, these are the only otherrequirements listed in 53-5-704.


53-5-704. Division duties
(5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the applicant to provide:
(a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
(b) one recent dated photograph;
(c) one set of fingerprints; and
(d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
(6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).
Click to expand...
Think I should leave out all of the other info on the application? ;)
Click to expand...
Why not? That is the approach we've used successfully here in VA.

Any nonsense, meaning any requirement not statutorily authorized, gets our attention.

You want to make sure you've got all the legalities straight.

Is Utah a "shall issue" state?
 
J

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
SGT Jensen wrote:
Aside from being 21, sane and law abiding, these are the only otherrequirements listed in 53-5-704.


53-5-704. Division duties
(5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the applicant to provide:
(a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
(b) one recent dated photograph;
(c) one set of fingerprints; and
(d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
(6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).
Click to expand...
Think I should leave out all of the other info on the application? ;)
Click to expand...
Why not? That is the approach we've used successfully here in VA.

Any nonsense, meaning any requirement not statutorily authorized, gets our attention.

You want to make sure you've got all the legalities straight.

Is Utah a "shall issue" state?
Click to expand...

I would be willing to give 2 more pieces of info... that being my NAME and my current CFP number...
 
U

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
imported post

JoeSparky wrote:
publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/ccwrenew_000.pdf][/url]

I see according to the above linked form that a SSN is REQUIRED or they won't process the renewal application.

I seem to remember from other postings on this board that it is a Federal Crime or a Title 7(?) violation to require this.

Is my memory correct? Am I wrong in my understanding?

JoeSparky
Click to expand...
I've just called BCI to ask them about the SSN on the form. I was told that if a person doesn't provide the number, it will NOT affect processing of the application.

If anyone wants to spend time and energy trying to get BCI to modify their form, have a ball. But it sounds to me like anyone who cares about such things is free to leave it off the form without that adversely affecting the processing or issuance of your renewal permit.

And for what it's worth, the phone call took me all of about 2 1/2 minutes total, including asking about how to run the number of privately purchased firearm to verify it has not previously been reported. [Answer to this question for any who care: Your local police department, or UHP, CAN do this, though they are not required to do it for you.]

I know it is easy to alwasy assume government and government employees are the enemy of our rights. But even with the increased time to process and issue permits out of BCI the last few years, I have always found their employees who answer the phone to be helpful, polite, and well informed on issues related to permitted carrying of firearms, even fairly well informed on OC issues.

This board can be a great resource. But on something like filling out forms, don't be afraid to go straight to the horses mouth so to speak.

Anyone who feels a burning need to confirm this is free to call BCI. They are open Monday thru Thursday and the phone number is readily available on their official Utah State web page.

Charles Hardy
GOUtah!
 
J

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
imported post

Thanks UtBagpipper....

If you will look to the first comment on THIS thread you will see that BCI was not open when I started the thread so I could not call them and ask them.

The bottom line is the form STILL says that ALL entries must be completed or they will not process the form. I am glad that they WILL process the form right now without a SSN on it but THEY SHOULD NOT BE IMPLYING AS A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY THAT IT IS REQUIRED WHEN IT IS NOT!

So what happens in the future if this is not fixed and they won't process the form without this information.... isn't this the SAME issue with regard to local cities and counties passing illegal acts restricting the carry/possession of firearms?

Just because they PROMISE us that the illegal ordinances will not be enforced what do we do in the future when they START enforcing a law on the books that should have been repealled but WASN'T?
 
U

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
imported post

Joe,

No need to get defensive. I'm simply noting that there was a lot of conversation and speculation without anyone bothering to make a 2 minute phone call once the BCI opened. Note that I did not post until after 1600 MDT. This is not unique. Any number of long discussions and much angst on various threads could be pretty quickly put to rest with a short phone call. Others have found how helpful it is to call the AG. BCI is also helpful in many cases.

And I certainly have no issues if someone wants to actually bother to make a few calls, write some letters, or otherwise do what needs to be done to get some wording on a form changed to make clear what the law does or does not require. But I hope you'll understand if I view wording on a form as a little different than an actual law or ordinance on the books and upon which a cop, local DA, and local judge may act to impose criminal penalties for what is really perfectly legal conduct.

We all have our priorities. I personally choose to place higher priority on laws and ordinances than on wording on a form. To each his own and perhaps we end up making more progress faster thanks to that.

Charles


JoeSparky wrote:
Thanks UtBagpipper....

If you will look to the first comment on THIS thread you will see that BCI was not open when I started the thread so I could not call them and ask them.

The bottom line is the form STILL says that ALL entries must be completed or they will not process the form. I am glad that they WILL process the form right now without a SSN on it but THEY SHOULD NOT BE IMPLYING AS A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY THAT IT IS REQUIRED WHEN IT IS NOT!

So what happens in the future if this is not fixed and they won't process the form without this information.... isn't this the SAME issue with regard to local cities and counties passing illegal acts restricting the carry/possession of firearms?

Just because they PROMISE us that the illegal ordinances will not be enforced what do we do in the future when they START enforcing a law on the books that should have been repealled but WASN'T?
Click to expand...
 
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