Woman shoots man after they got off Metro bus in downtown Seattle

imported post

Pagan wrote:

ChuckUFarley wrote:

Pagan wrote:

Click to expand...

Those were simply signs in addition to other things, please read and understand the post before freaking out and start spitting and god forbid,wearing red hats

Click to expand...

Yeah i know i just like thinking about what ifs

imported post

joeroket wrote:

That's a little far fetched but I hear where you are coming from. One must look at the totality of the situation not just one piece of it.

1. Did she antagonize him on the bus?
2. Was this his normal stop?
3. What interaction was there after they exited from the bus?
4. What was his demeanor?
5. How was he acting?
6. How was she acting?
7. Did he really lunge at her or did he stumble?

I think the most important questions to answer are 1, 2, 3, and 7. The answers to those questions will more than likely result in the correct conclusion. Depending on the answers one must then look at #4 and #5 then #6.

Click to expand...

Yeah its a little far fetched, but it seems I see more and more video or news where people (LEO) or Security Guards (Contracted) coming up with crazy things to tase people, they tased the crap out of some naked wizard at a music festival, the guy was naked he wasn’t concealing anything, sure he was a jackass and didn’t want to put on his wizard robe but damn did you see it, they tasered him so much I though he would surly have died, and for what because they are getting lazier every year and use the taser as a compliant tool instead of a last resort before deadly force is needed like it is designed for.



And now the average person runs around with i saw this guy walking down the road minding his own business but because he was wearing (fill in Blank) he looked suspicious and I thought he was going to (fill in Blank).



Whatever happened to actually committing a crime was the crime, not just looking out of place.

imported post

44Brent wrote:

When the woman got off at Third and Seneca, the man at the last moment followed other passengers out at the last minute and rushed toward the woman, Hurley said. She pulled out a gun and shot him.

Click to expand...

A man, usually 1.5 times larger than women in general, who is acting very strange, gets off the bus and then rushes a woman. What should she have done? Scolded him? Sounds like a good shoot to me as there was no way she could know whether or not he had a knife or what his intentions were. The fact that witnesses say he rushed her makes the case for me.

imported post

joeroket wrote:

1. Did she antagonize him on the bus?

Click to expand...

You mean did she tell him to move somewhere else or did she comment on his smell? My wife asked a stinky homeless guy to please move somewhere else when she was in the Library.... he started yelling at her and really scared her. Two Library personnel had to escort him out and he began to become agitated and slightly violent.... had this altercation occurred on a bus and he followed my wife off the bus and attacked her, I would hope she would shoot him. My wife weighs around 115 lbs and this homeless guy was over 6 foot and probably weighed at least 230 lbs. One hit and he could kill my wife. She has since stopped going to that Library since that guy keeps going back and stinks really really bad and talks to himself.

imported post

...and for what because they are getting lazier every year and use the taser as a compliant tool instead of a last resort before deadly force is needed like it is designed for.

Click to expand...

The other "compliance tool" is physically wrestling with the suspect, opening up the possibility of injury to both parties and possibly exposing the officers involved to transmissible diseases.

Naked wizard had repeatedly been asked to put his clothes back on by police who were polite, professional, and respectful. He had plenty of warnings and was told ahead of time that the taser would be used. He chose to go that route. Even while being tased he continued to be non-compliant, demonstrating that the experience was a far cry from an "OMG HE LIKE TOTALLY ALMOST DIED!" situation.

imported post

I frequently hear about being tried bytwelve is better than being carried by six. This seems like such a case. Lets see. Woman is harassed by man on bus, woman leaves bus, man follows and continues harassment, man spits on woman, man lunges at woman, woman shoots man. Cops should

A. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

B. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

C. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

Choose one.

imported post

irfner wrote:

I frequently hear about being tried bytwelve is better than being carried by six. This seems like such a case. Lets see. Woman is harassed by man on bus, woman leaves bus, man follows and continues harassment, man spits on woman, man lunges at woman, woman shoots man. Cops should

A. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

B. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

C. Give the woman a ride home and make sure she has someone to stay with her.

Choose one.

Click to expand...

Amen to that!

~metalhead47's wife

imported post

Anyone that would spit on someone like that is probably guilty of something a lot more serious and she did us all a favor. Bet he thinks twice before he tries that again.

imported post

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

joeroket wrote:

1. Did she antagonize him on the bus?

Click to expand...

You mean did she tell him to move somewhere else or did she comment on his smell? My wife asked a stinky homeless guy to please move somewhere else when she was in the Library.... he started yelling at her and really scared her. Two Library personnel had to escort him out and he began to become agitated and slightly violent.... had this altercation occurred on a bus and he followed my wife off the bus and attacked her, I would hope she would shoot him. My wife weighs around 115 lbs and this homeless guy was over 6 foot and probably weighed at least 230 lbs. One hit and he could kill my wife. She has since stopped going to that Library since that guy keeps going back and stinks really really bad and talks to himself.

Click to expand...

Read the entire post you took that from. I di not imply anything remotely close to what you twisted it into.

imported post

The important thing to note is that she apparently warned the guy and she was armed and to stop advancing, yet he kept getting closer to her and jumping toward her. Sounds to me she took the appropriate steps. Apprently she was the one who talked to him first. I was listening to the radio this morning and some douchebags were calling in and saying that if she just minded her business and didn't speak to him, then none of this would have happened. Unbelievable. If there was a guy on the bus listening to loud music and it was so loud that everyone could hear it, I would say something. Liberals just want us to be sheeple and say nothing.

imported post

joeroket wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

joeroket wrote:

1. Did she antagonize him on the bus?

Click to expand...

You mean did she tell him to move somewhere else or did she comment on his smell? My wife asked a stinky homeless guy to please move somewhere else when she was in the Library.... he started yelling at her and really scared her. Two Library personnel had to escort him out and he began to become agitated and slightly violent.... had this altercation occurred on a bus and he followed my wife off the bus and attacked her, I would hope she would shoot him. My wife weighs around 115 lbs and this homeless guy was over 6 foot and probably weighed at least 230 lbs. One hit and he could kill my wife. She has since stopped going to that Library since that guy keeps going back and stinks really really bad and talks to himself.

Click to expand...

Read the entire post you took that from. I di not imply anything remotely close to what you twisted it into.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but the question "Did she antagonize him?" is insulting to anyone who has friends or family who've been abused or attacked or raped. Would you ask of a woman who was raped "Was she arousing him?" The antagonize question has no place in any list, because no matter what a person says, you have no right to physically attack them for it. If he called her a dirty C**t, and she shot him for it... I'd be all for seeing her convicted of murder and put away for a long time, but just thepositing of that question gives some physical attacks on a woman legitimacy.

imported post

The question of "Did she antagonize him?" is legitimate in this case. It has absolutely nothing do do with other females who have been abused, attacked or raped. If the female suspect antagonized the victim, then the case of self-defense is not applicable.

I am personally sick of all of this "she must have shot in SD because she is a female and he is a crazy acting male" and the cops should have left her alone and taken her home and given her protection BS. I guess all of the past 100+ years of women working for equal rights and treatment is out the window when she pulls the trigger and now has to be protected because of gender. Yes, I went there.

Until more info comes out, I am still saying bad shoot, maybe not legally but it is pushing the gray area big time. There are way too many variables in this that don't add up. Argument+so-called lunging+ spit should not equal shooting. If so, we should be having many more shootings just like this.

A very good friend of mine was charged with battery after he was tripped by a guy here at U of Idaho and fell into a female. She freaked out, ran away and tried to press charges against him. They were friends and co-workers before this. But I guess my friend actually lunged at her with intent to cause her harm and she should have shot him for this action because he fell on her after being tripped, disparity of force and the like.

imported post

Vandal wrote:

The question of "Did she antagonize him?" is legitimate in this case. It has absolutely nothing do do with other females who have been abused, attacked or raped. If the female suspect antagonized the victim, then the case of self-defense is not applicable.

I am personally sick of all of this "she must have shot in SD because she is a female and he is a crazy acting male" and the cops should have left her alone and taken her home and given her protection BS. I guess all of the past 100+ years of women working for equal rights and treatment is out the window when she pulls the trigger and now has to be protected because of gender. Yes, I went there.

Until more info comes out, I am still saying bad shoot, maybe not legally but it is pushing the gray area big time. There are way too many variables in this that don't add up. Argument+so-called lunging+ spit should not equal shooting. If so, we should be having many more shootings just like this.

Click to expand...

Well since you went there I will too. Men are bigger than women. Men are stronger than women. Not in EVERY case but in the overwhelming majority of individuals, this is so. It hasn't been said if this woman was a body builder & her assailant was a midget, but I doubt if that was the case:quirky. If a much larger, stronger person attacks a smaller, weaker person, that establishes disparate force, as others have said. That case from West Seattle a few weeks ago reminds us that even a single punch can be lethal. Add that to larger vs. smaller. The mental stability of the guy has been questioned as well. A mentally unstable person is much less likely to be halted by the mere sight of a gun pointed at them. If the stop this woman got off at is NOT her regular stop, nor his, which is what it sounds like, then that shows she was trying to get away from the situation rather than escalate it. And IF he did lunge at her that is a clear attack with intention to harm, demanding a split second life-or-death decision. Antagonizing is irrelevant, no matter how antagonized he was he has no justification to attack her. If she instigated the confrontation that's another matter, as it is if she then tried to diffuse it by leaving.

Once again we don't have all the facts here, and this argument is really starting to get out into "what-if" land, but let me break this down.

IF the man is much bigger and stronger than this woman, and IF he is mentally unstable, and IF she got off before her usual stop to get away from him, and IF he followed and this was NOT his usual stop, IF she first displayed the gun and told him to stop, and IF he then lunged at her in a clear attempt to do harm (and this is indeed what the situation sounds like to me from the few facts known), then:

GOOD ON HER FOR POPPING THE S.O.B. ONE CUZ THE PSYCHO HAD IT COMING!

Now if this is, in fact, not the case, then we'll continue to back & forth over this till we're all blue in the face & not change a durn thing :lol:

imported post

Vandal wrote:

The question of "Did she antagonize him?" is legitimate in this case. It has absolutely nothing do do with other females who have been abused, attacked or raped. If the female suspect antagonized the victim, then the case of self-defense is not applicable.

I am personally sick of all of this "she must have shot in SD because she is a female and he is a crazy acting male" and the cops should have left her alone and taken her home and given her protection BS. I guess all of the past 100+ years of women working for equal rights and treatment is out the window when she pulls the trigger and now has to be protected because of gender. Yes, I went there.

Until more info comes out, I am still saying bad shoot, maybe not legally but it is pushing the gray area big time. There are way too many variables in this that don't add up. Argument+so-called lunging+ spit should not equal shooting. If so, we should be having many more shootings just like this.

A very good friend of mine was charged with battery after he was tripped by a guy here at U of Idaho and fell into a female. She freaked out, ran away and tried to press charges against him. They were friends and co-workers before this. But I guess my friend actually lunged at her with intent to cause her harm and she should have shot him for this action because he fell on her after being tripped, disparity of force and the like.

Click to expand...

Very well said.

imported post

Metalhead, the point of antagonizing is very relevant because that would show that the female suspect initiated the conflict, taking away any self-defense claims.

ETA: In doing some reading the suspect was released from jail on a $200K bond with the written objections of Seattle PD due to her two prior convictions in Utah of firearm brandishing in 1996 and assault in 1997. It is also possible that the suspect was more confident in getting into a confrontation because she had a weapon. Something to ponder for all of us who carry on a daily basis, when the you go out, leave your attitude at home.

Also based off of this article and SPD reports there is no mention of a "lunge" in recent reports. Either it was over-looked or didn't happen.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009133677_webbusshooting27m.html

imported post

I go out of my way to avoid trouble when I am carrying, even more so when OCing. Ayoob has a lot to say about confrontation in his book "In the Gravest Extreme" which I think any person who is carrying a gun, or thinking about carrying a gun should read.

As an example I was at the bus station in Olympia (CCing a CZ82) and a rather unbalanced individual was causing problems, and as my bus wasn't due for another 15 minutes or so, I simply got up to walk away. I left a book laying on the bench and came back to retrieve it. The individual told me I had best better get the book before he took it from me. I simply and calmly asked him if perhaps I should get security, and he said I better get security. Being an obliging individual, I did and the problem was solved. At no time did I engage in action or conversation that could have been construed as escalating the situation, nor did I seek to engage the individual in conversation.

Sometimes being armed means simply walking away from a potential problem. The gun is not a magic talisman that makes you invincible and keeps you from taking shit from others. It is a tool to defend yourself when all other options have failed. Your responsibility is to avoid those situations whenever possible. This woman may not have done that.

I'll get off a bus, cross the street, leave a building, or simply turn and walk away from an individual who is trying to cause problems for me if I am armed at the time (or generally any other time) whenever it is safe and feasible for me to do so rather than engage them in any fashion. And you know what? It generally works.

Being armed calls for a huge degree of self control, willpower and a thick skin. Read Ayoob's book and then consider this shooting in seattle in light of what you read.

imported post

Vandal wrote:

The question of "Did she antagonize him?" is legitimate in this case. It has absolutely nothing do do with other females who have been abused, attacked or raped. If the female suspect antagonized the victim, then the case of self-defense is not applicable.

Click to expand...

The question is perfectly legitimate and if this case comes to trial I will guarantee that it will be asked many times. It has nothing to do with female or male. The person objecting to this question makes it sound as if a female couldn't have started the altercation and is perfectly innocent simply because she is a woman. I have no idea what went on and who started it but you can be sure that the prosecutor will be asking who did.

imported post

PT111 wrote:

Vandal wrote:The question is perfectly legitimate and if this case comes to trial I will guarantee that it will be asked many times. It has nothing to do with female or male. The person objecting to this question makes it sound as if a female couldn't have started the altercation and is perfectly innocent simply because she is a woman. I have no idea what went on and who started it but you can be sure that the prosecutor will be asking who did.

Click to expand...

No man, I gave about half a dozen IF conditions followed by THEN, and stated that a female (usually) has a physical disadvantage against a male. The more conditions not true the less valid the argument. Vandal's last post introduces some new factors not previously mentioned here, or at least it's the first I've heard of them.

And on another note, are you & others saying that if she DID antagonize him, he would have in turn have been justified in punching her lights out & possibly killing her himself? Antagonizing is not the same as instigating.

imported post

Metalhead47 wrote:

And on another note, are you & others saying that if she DID antagonize him, he would have in turn have been justified in punching her lights out & possibly killing her himself? Antagonizing is not the same as instigating.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pisses you off gives you no reason to physically attack them.

And I agree with svlibertarian on the need to not escalate a situation, and when she got off the bus, and others got off the bus after her, and last, the man got off the bus and then rushed at her... that shows me that she was trying to de-escalate the situation by leaving the area where the man was... and he followed to continue the altercation. When a big man comes after a smaller woman... and does so in a threatening manner, does she have to wait until he starts beating the crap out of her before she can do anything? All it takes is one punch. Now likely, one punch would not have killed her, but she didn't know that he did not have a weapon, and it seems that she had already been assaulted by the guy (spitting on someone is battery I think) so in her eyes, maybe the next attack was an escalation on his part.

Again, none of us have the full story, but just the fact that she got off the bus way ahead of the guy and was not waiting outside the bus for him shows she was desiring to leave the altercation.

imported post

The problem with everybody using the Antagonize word is that with most crazy people that ride the down town Seattle buses, just looking at them gets them to rant and rave. When they're yelling at people at random and jumping up and down, quietly asking them to settle down would antagonize them. I've seen footage of bus drivers being attacked because they ask some wacko to sit down.