kparker
Regular Member
imported post
Wheelgunner wrote:
Wheelgunner wrote:
Yeah, but then that makes the range equivalent to a nude beach or something.
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9-41-270 charges....
- Thread starter Lord_Kalen
- Start date
cynicist
Regular Member
imported post
I just looked for it now and I can't find it, but I know it's there.
I seem to remember reading in the RCWs that if your CPL is expired, it is a defense to unlawful carry, and the penalty is you have to renew it.
I just looked for it now and I can't find it, but I know it's there.
imported post
It's like a drivers license that is expired .Don't drive untill you get it renewed.Why think you should be able to walk around CC with an expired CPL.I have no sympathy.Don't CC untill you get it renewed especially in an open carry state .Pretty stupid. You have to be a real moron to unholster a weapon from CC in public with an expired CPL.Gives us a bad image.
It's like a drivers license that is expired .Don't drive untill you get it renewed.Why think you should be able to walk around CC with an expired CPL.I have no sympathy.Don't CC untill you get it renewed especially in an open carry state .Pretty stupid. You have to be a real moron to unholster a weapon from CC in public with an expired CPL.Gives us a bad image.
joeroket
Regular Member
imported post
cynicist wrote:
It is RCW 9.41.098, nosrac posted it, and you are absolutely correct about the penalty, however it is still an offense that you would be cited for.
He is not charged under .050 however, so unfortunately it does not apply to the OP.
cynicist wrote:
It is RCW 9.41.098, nosrac posted it, and you are absolutely correct about the penalty, however it is still an offense that you would be cited for.
He is not charged under .050 however, so unfortunately it does not apply to the OP.
Lord_Kalen
Regular Member
imported post
Yeah the 2 year window of an absolute defense Ive became aware of , was dimly aware of it before hand,Im honestly thinking it may have been the reason I got the .270 charge .... they took there sweet time coming up with it and had plenty of time to go over the rcws
As far as I know the guy that I suspect called the police called after sighting my gun holstered as he was walking up the stairs I didnt put much effort into concealing it. Ive not been told the reason for these charges and when first confronted all I was told is they got a call from someone that saw me with a gun , thinking back I believe the first copused the words carrying
I prefer to have something between my hands and my gun for carry. my duster/ revolver as example , or my CZ-52s flap holster on a crossdraw for OC , and used a handmade Flapped Holster for my C-96 when I OC'd in Arizona ... ... just noticed all my main carry guns have been C&Rs
I dont like the jutting butt style of carry use by LEOs andmany on this site. And usually only engage in it at home.
Handing over an unloading gun I guess could be a minor jesture of goodwill and for me in some ways has became on occasional form of interduction , I dont relinquish both my gun and blade at the same time and I feel pretty confident myKnife is a better weapon then my empty gun , Ive actually oftenhad people intruduce both me and my weapons , especially when I carried the C-96 ....
I didnt state traumatic experience as a reason forshowing offa weapon , only as a major contributing factor for feeling very drained after being arrested and disarmed after the adrenaline high wore off , It is thoughalso a reason I prefer a minorbuffer between my hands and my carry guns.
Last as Ive stated and would be very uncouth if I was responding in person .. It wasnt a Fu(king shootout ..... I was unarmed as was my friend and we had nothing whatsoever to shoot back with .
I was involved in a Border Militia down in Douglas Arizona , under Casey Nethercott we had an altercation with a few Border Patrol agents and he called the local Sheriffs department for help and abit distraught told the dispatcher to send police down immediatly or there was going to be a shootout ... the Feds milked this into a charges of a threat and did a assault arrest on him while we were walking back to his van , We heard a "Halt Fbi " from behind us and we paused and slightly turned , I was shot once , and then heard the order to put our hands up ... this was with a .223 center mass I stood standing after .....
My friend did 5-1/2 months in jail before being found not guilty on all charges.
I did 2-1/2 months in a hospital , underwent 3 surgeries and am missing my spleen took major damage to my colon , aswell as damage to my pancreas and minor damage to my left lung . I have a major abdominal hernia and feel minor pain in my side almost constantly
I was wearing slacks and a muscle shirt that barely came to my beltline.
As you read I Oc'd a C-96 in arizona, a foot long weapon , I wasnt carrying it that night as we were shopping for groceries in safeways and they sold alcohol , and we werent sure under AZ's laws if it was legal to carry without a permit in the store ....
Ive since not felt overly compelled to dilligently follow carry laws .......... Maybe its something you'd have to experience but it drove the lesson my Ancestors credit to Odin home ..
Let no man stir foot on the road without his weapons of war , for unsure is knowing need of spear may arise on the way without ...
Not that my C-96 and the 6rounds I had in it would of done much good, nor would I have likely to wentfor it ,but atleast if I was killed I would have been armed , and not died like adefenseless Thrall... this is a deep part of my Personal and Religous beliefs .
... And on a light note yes you read right Ive used a C-96 Mauser "Broomhandle" as a carry piece and loved it , and it generally seemed to be a well recieved sight on my hip drawing more curiousity then fear. I honestly find the feel of some modern guns like the Glock distatefull , and while I own 2 "Assault Rifles" (well5 by some Dems deffinition) I dont really like them , not against these type of weapons for personal ownership by anymeans I believe that free individuals have greater inate rights to them then governments, But there not really my taste
Yeah the 2 year window of an absolute defense Ive became aware of , was dimly aware of it before hand,Im honestly thinking it may have been the reason I got the .270 charge .... they took there sweet time coming up with it and had plenty of time to go over the rcws
As far as I know the guy that I suspect called the police called after sighting my gun holstered as he was walking up the stairs I didnt put much effort into concealing it. Ive not been told the reason for these charges and when first confronted all I was told is they got a call from someone that saw me with a gun , thinking back I believe the first copused the words carrying
I prefer to have something between my hands and my gun for carry. my duster/ revolver as example , or my CZ-52s flap holster on a crossdraw for OC , and used a handmade Flapped Holster for my C-96 when I OC'd in Arizona ... ... just noticed all my main carry guns have been C&Rs
I dont like the jutting butt style of carry use by LEOs andmany on this site. And usually only engage in it at home.
Handing over an unloading gun I guess could be a minor jesture of goodwill and for me in some ways has became on occasional form of interduction , I dont relinquish both my gun and blade at the same time and I feel pretty confident myKnife is a better weapon then my empty gun , Ive actually oftenhad people intruduce both me and my weapons , especially when I carried the C-96 ....
I didnt state traumatic experience as a reason forshowing offa weapon , only as a major contributing factor for feeling very drained after being arrested and disarmed after the adrenaline high wore off , It is thoughalso a reason I prefer a minorbuffer between my hands and my carry guns.
Last as Ive stated and would be very uncouth if I was responding in person .. It wasnt a Fu(king shootout ..... I was unarmed as was my friend and we had nothing whatsoever to shoot back with .
I was involved in a Border Militia down in Douglas Arizona , under Casey Nethercott we had an altercation with a few Border Patrol agents and he called the local Sheriffs department for help and abit distraught told the dispatcher to send police down immediatly or there was going to be a shootout ... the Feds milked this into a charges of a threat and did a assault arrest on him while we were walking back to his van , We heard a "Halt Fbi " from behind us and we paused and slightly turned , I was shot once , and then heard the order to put our hands up ... this was with a .223 center mass I stood standing after .....
My friend did 5-1/2 months in jail before being found not guilty on all charges.
I did 2-1/2 months in a hospital , underwent 3 surgeries and am missing my spleen took major damage to my colon , aswell as damage to my pancreas and minor damage to my left lung . I have a major abdominal hernia and feel minor pain in my side almost constantly
I was wearing slacks and a muscle shirt that barely came to my beltline.
As you read I Oc'd a C-96 in arizona, a foot long weapon , I wasnt carrying it that night as we were shopping for groceries in safeways and they sold alcohol , and we werent sure under AZ's laws if it was legal to carry without a permit in the store ....
Ive since not felt overly compelled to dilligently follow carry laws .......... Maybe its something you'd have to experience but it drove the lesson my Ancestors credit to Odin home ..
Let no man stir foot on the road without his weapons of war , for unsure is knowing need of spear may arise on the way without ...
Not that my C-96 and the 6rounds I had in it would of done much good, nor would I have likely to wentfor it ,but atleast if I was killed I would have been armed , and not died like adefenseless Thrall... this is a deep part of my Personal and Religous beliefs .
... And on a light note yes you read right Ive used a C-96 Mauser "Broomhandle" as a carry piece and loved it , and it generally seemed to be a well recieved sight on my hip drawing more curiousity then fear. I honestly find the feel of some modern guns like the Glock distatefull , and while I own 2 "Assault Rifles" (well5 by some Dems deffinition) I dont really like them , not against these type of weapons for personal ownership by anymeans I believe that free individuals have greater inate rights to them then governments, But there not really my taste
Lord_Kalen
Regular Member
imported post
Went to my arraignment today ,I was first offered a plea bargain without the charges being read $400 and forfeiture ofthe weapons , I turned it down and stated I could not enter a plea of guilty without a statement of the nature of the charges .
When the police report was read , from what I gather they had been called by someone seeing my weapons being carried , but they had no statement from them so I'll try to get my lawyer to get a copy of the original call if available .
It sounds like there trying to run together a case based on both the callers sighting of my arms and my little show and tell , however the report didnt contain any statement from the caller . and no claims that my actual intentional display had caused any alarm or was there any mention in the report itself of intent to intimidate
I asked for a copy of thecharges and I was told It was something I would need to take up with my attorney.
As part of my pre trial release I am not supposed to possess any "dangerous weapons, I asked what that was defined as and Stated that arms are part of my Religous" beliefs , and the Judge irately responded I was not to possess any dangerous weapons that I could use I knife at home to eat with but wasnt able to carry so much asa hunting knife ........ the judge pitched more of an authoritarian attitude with me then he did on a guy facing 4 miscelanious charges including an assault , the Judge left the courtroom and I signed the release and scraweled done "with protest to conditions" ,
no reason was stated for the conditions
Ive been looking up case laws and other then State vs Spencer , Josh's posting about his VPD harrassment and the Hartnett case I havent found much in the way of cases involving non violent display
Question , the citation while marked as served on violator , was never given to me directly nor was I given any reason for the charges originally Do I have any leverage there ?
Went to my arraignment today ,I was first offered a plea bargain without the charges being read $400 and forfeiture ofthe weapons , I turned it down and stated I could not enter a plea of guilty without a statement of the nature of the charges .
When the police report was read , from what I gather they had been called by someone seeing my weapons being carried , but they had no statement from them so I'll try to get my lawyer to get a copy of the original call if available .
It sounds like there trying to run together a case based on both the callers sighting of my arms and my little show and tell , however the report didnt contain any statement from the caller . and no claims that my actual intentional display had caused any alarm or was there any mention in the report itself of intent to intimidate
I asked for a copy of thecharges and I was told It was something I would need to take up with my attorney.
As part of my pre trial release I am not supposed to possess any "dangerous weapons, I asked what that was defined as and Stated that arms are part of my Religous" beliefs , and the Judge irately responded I was not to possess any dangerous weapons that I could use I knife at home to eat with but wasnt able to carry so much asa hunting knife ........ the judge pitched more of an authoritarian attitude with me then he did on a guy facing 4 miscelanious charges including an assault , the Judge left the courtroom and I signed the release and scraweled done "with protest to conditions" ,
no reason was stated for the conditions
Ive been looking up case laws and other then State vs Spencer , Josh's posting about his VPD harrassment and the Hartnett case I havent found much in the way of cases involving non violent display
Question , the citation while marked as served on violator , was never given to me directly nor was I given any reason for the charges originally Do I have any leverage there ?
Trigger Dr
Regular Member
imported post
If you have not already, get an attorney who is versed in FIREARMS law. Randy Loun comes to mind, but he just had bypass surgery. His office can advise who to contact.
360-377-7678
If you have not already, get an attorney who is versed in FIREARMS law. Randy Loun comes to mind, but he just had bypass surgery. His office can advise who to contact.
360-377-7678
arentol
New member
imported post
I don't know if he is any good as a lawyer, but Mark Knapp sure has a nice website on the subject, and his office will answer simple questions for free at (253) 202-2081. He works out of Federal Way and will work in Everett:
http://www.firearmslawyer.net/
As for your actions and the law:
You obviously screwed up when you admitted you had a gun when you didn't have a valid CPL. However, you screwed up FAR more by admitting you had a weapon at all. You don't have to admit having a weapon during a random questioning on the street so don't. Don't lie of course, just respond only with questions and try to get the officer to admit you are being detained (or that you aren't, and then walk away). I suggest responding to his questions with questions, and follow each question with "also, am I free to go?". ("Excuse me sir, are you carrying a firearm?", "Why officer, has there been a report someone around here has a gun? Also, am I free to go?"). Respond to any statements with "How can I help you officer?" (since he didn't ask a question), and "Am I free to go?". After you ask if you are free to go a few times, if he hasn't committed either way (they are trained to also always ask questions too, and they are better at it than you), then state "If I am not being detained then I am going to be on my way.", give him a second to respond, then walk away. This will probably force him to detain you by saying "Halt", or something similar.
Once you are detained he will probably search you, and that is where you might have just gotten the best defenses possible, Florida vs. J.L.:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=26
If their tip about you was anonymous (which seems likely so far) then under Florida vs. J.L. they would have had no Terry stop, no legal search, and you could have the firearm and knives suppressed, which stops the case entirely.
As for .270, a good lawyer will get you off on two sections:
"time and place". A store that sells weapons is a much more appropriate place to display a weapon than a normal store, even if it is a gun in a store that only sells knives. The fact that other privately owned weapons have been displayed and discussed in the past (assuming you can get someone else to testify to this fact) sets you up REALLY well on this point. You are even better off if they have ever purchased a weapon (even non-gun) from anyone and will testify to this. That makes it a valid part of their business to view other deadly weapons.
"under circumstances". If your story is accurate then the fact that you were standing there with the clerk and a woman pretty much kills "under circumstances". You also clearly had permission of an employee, which is also kills this requirement. Since you handed a knife to the woman, that shows it was a simple discussion, also killing this requirement. If they know who called it in, and that person admits to having watched for a while before calling it in, and/or they admit to knowing that the woman asked you about the weapons, you are golden. That means they KNEW the situation didn't warrant alarm. Finally, the fact that the employee displayed a weapon as well puts the final bullet in the head of this requirement. Clearly if the employee is displaying a weapon and then everyone puts all their weapons away there is nothing happening that warrants alarm.
The only way you could possibly get close to being nailed on this is if the person that called in the MWAG was someone who saw you through the window of the store just as you pulled out the gun, so they had no context. However, even that would not stick because your actions still didn't warrant alarm, they were just misunderstood by that one person.
I don't know if he is any good as a lawyer, but Mark Knapp sure has a nice website on the subject, and his office will answer simple questions for free at (253) 202-2081. He works out of Federal Way and will work in Everett:
http://www.firearmslawyer.net/
As for your actions and the law:
You obviously screwed up when you admitted you had a gun when you didn't have a valid CPL. However, you screwed up FAR more by admitting you had a weapon at all. You don't have to admit having a weapon during a random questioning on the street so don't. Don't lie of course, just respond only with questions and try to get the officer to admit you are being detained (or that you aren't, and then walk away). I suggest responding to his questions with questions, and follow each question with "also, am I free to go?". ("Excuse me sir, are you carrying a firearm?", "Why officer, has there been a report someone around here has a gun? Also, am I free to go?"). Respond to any statements with "How can I help you officer?" (since he didn't ask a question), and "Am I free to go?". After you ask if you are free to go a few times, if he hasn't committed either way (they are trained to also always ask questions too, and they are better at it than you), then state "If I am not being detained then I am going to be on my way.", give him a second to respond, then walk away. This will probably force him to detain you by saying "Halt", or something similar.
Once you are detained he will probably search you, and that is where you might have just gotten the best defenses possible, Florida vs. J.L.:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=26
If their tip about you was anonymous (which seems likely so far) then under Florida vs. J.L. they would have had no Terry stop, no legal search, and you could have the firearm and knives suppressed, which stops the case entirely.
As for .270, a good lawyer will get you off on two sections:
"time and place". A store that sells weapons is a much more appropriate place to display a weapon than a normal store, even if it is a gun in a store that only sells knives. The fact that other privately owned weapons have been displayed and discussed in the past (assuming you can get someone else to testify to this fact) sets you up REALLY well on this point. You are even better off if they have ever purchased a weapon (even non-gun) from anyone and will testify to this. That makes it a valid part of their business to view other deadly weapons.
"under circumstances". If your story is accurate then the fact that you were standing there with the clerk and a woman pretty much kills "under circumstances". You also clearly had permission of an employee, which is also kills this requirement. Since you handed a knife to the woman, that shows it was a simple discussion, also killing this requirement. If they know who called it in, and that person admits to having watched for a while before calling it in, and/or they admit to knowing that the woman asked you about the weapons, you are golden. That means they KNEW the situation didn't warrant alarm. Finally, the fact that the employee displayed a weapon as well puts the final bullet in the head of this requirement. Clearly if the employee is displaying a weapon and then everyone puts all their weapons away there is nothing happening that warrants alarm.
The only way you could possibly get close to being nailed on this is if the person that called in the MWAG was someone who saw you through the window of the store just as you pulled out the gun, so they had no context. However, even that would not stick because your actions still didn't warrant alarm, they were just misunderstood by that one person.