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RITALIN / ADDERALL causes VIOLENCE

AWDstylez

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Citizen wrote:
wrightme wrote:
If there is this supposed wealth of information about it, then he should link it. If you know where this supposed wealth of information is, you should link it. Frankly, other than some false logic claim that ritalin causes violence, and some assertion that ADHD adds a person to the list, he has presented nothing but an unfocused rant. His main point (that you say is backed up by reams of bandwidth) is not even apparent.
OK, Wrightme. You're right. Razor's failure as a scholar means the information he is trying to pass onis very likely to be false.

Don't look into it. Don't waste your time.

Don't you realize that that's the only way wrightme knows how to argue? "Citation or it's wrong." Then when you do provide a citation it becomes, "citation for your citation or it's wrong." Then when you provide that it's, "Citation for your citation for your citation, or it's wrong." Rinse, repeat for all eternity. You get the idea.
 

wrightme

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AWDstylez wrote:
Citizen wrote:
wrightme wrote:
If there is this supposed wealth of information about it, then he should link it. If you know where this supposed wealth of information is, you should link it. Frankly, other than some false logic claim that ritalin causes violence, and some assertion that ADHD adds a person to the list, he has presented nothing but an unfocused rant. His main point (that you say is backed up by reams of bandwidth) is not even apparent.
OK, Wrightme. You're right. Razor's failure as a scholar means the information he is trying to pass onis very likely to be false.

Don't look into it. Don't waste your time.

Don't you realize that that's the only way wrightme knows how to argue? "Citation or it's wrong." Then when you do provide a citation it becomes, "citation for your citation or it's wrong." Then when you provide that it's, "Citation for your citation for your citation, or it's wrong." Rinse, repeat for all eternity. You get the idea.
If anyone is not willing to waste their time linking their information, I will not be willing to waste my time looking it up for them. It is futile for me to do such.


In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.

From the little I did choose to look, Ritalin is not banned in Canada, but Adderall is banned in Canada; but not due to violence, due to deaths. When I pointed that out to the OP, the rant changed direction without any information to back up the original allegation. That is not a useful way to present a point at all. You should know that by now.

By your post, you seem to feel that the OP could post whatever he wishes without citation, and we should all believe it because he typed it into a post? :quirky

Or do we believe it when one other person comes in and types a post agreeing with him?

It is really laughable to attempt to present information in that manner. It doesn't work.
 

R a Z o R

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... Citizen ...

O K

The liberalaggressiveprogressivesocialist LAPS are actively working against the second amendment . I have been instructed to say either progressive or liberal from same , however used as adjectives it is proper English .

We need to unite and whip the snot out of all attempts against our RKBA. Can you believe using a veteran's medical records of ADD & ADHD to take away theirability and rightto own and use afirearm ? While at the same time the FDA is not reporting the prescribed medications involved in our nations crimes ?

Each time a lapsman commits a violent crime only the word gunman is used . By stating the facts of the Bath School disaster to direct the conversation away from guns and to the person where 45 children were killed using dynamite as the number one school killing . The medications of the Columbine ADHD killers is also interesting and an example .

How dare the lapsman use ADHD & ADD for their own gain . I did not mean to offend by pointing it out .
 

AWDstylez

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wrightme wrote:
In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.


Welcome to OC.com. Accept it and get a laughout ofit like the rest of us with our heads on straight, or GTFO.
 

wrightme

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AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.


Welcome to OC.com. Accept it and get a laughout ofit like the rest of us with our heads on straight, or GTFO.
So you agree that the OP does not have a valid point? Or are you saying that you think the posts in oc are normally not connected to factual information, or are you saying that RAZOR's posts are normally not connected to factual information?
 

AWDstylez

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wrightme wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.


Welcome to OC.com. Accept it and get a laughout ofit like the rest of us with our heads on straight, or GTFO.
So you agree that the OP does not have a valid point? Or are you saying that you think the posts in oc are normally not connected to factual information, or are you saying that RAZOR's posts are normally not connected to factual information?
Clearly I meant all three.
 

wrightme

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AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.


Welcome to OC.com. Accept it and get a laughout ofit like the rest of us with our heads on straight, or GTFO.
So you agree that the OP does not have a valid point? Or are you saying that you think the posts in oc are normally not connected to factual information, or are you saying that RAZOR's posts are normally not connected to factual information?
Clearly I meant all three.
Then you really do have a low opinion of those who post in OCDO. I actually find much factual information is available in many posts on this website.
 

AWDstylez

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wrightme wrote:
Then you really do have a low opinion of those who post in OCDO. I actually find much factual information is available in many posts on this website.

Clearly you don't frequent general discussion very much...
 

wrightme

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AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
Then you really do have a low opinion of those who post in OCDO. I actually find much factual information is available in many posts on this website.

Clearly you don't frequent general discussion very much...
Depends upon the topic.
Of course, you did not limit your obvious derision to only the General Discussion area; or did you mis-speak?

AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
wrightme wrote:
In this instance, the ramblings aren't even visibly connected to factual information.


Welcome to OC.com. Accept it and get a laughout ofit like the rest of us with our heads on straight, or GTFO.
So you agree that the OP does not have a valid point? Or are you saying that you think the posts in oc are normally not connected to factual information, or are you saying that RAZOR's posts are normally not connected to factual information?
Clearly I meant all three.
 

Dispatcher

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The originial poster's start to this thread was vague and did not post any references.

I have done the research that the original poster has refused to do:
Probably the best links: http://westernfrontamerica.com/2008/11/23/dangers-veterans-disarmament-act/
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=219&issue=018

http://noworldsystem.com/category/veterans-disarmament-act/
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns9dec09,0,5923876.story?coll=la-home-center
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5555
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3112

None of this stuff is very clear. Does this mean all people with ADHD are barred from owning guns or just the veterans? It's all confusing.

Someone please find the full reading of the law and post it here, I can't find it.
 

Dispatcher

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Nevermind, I found that too: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:5:./temp/~c110plhbPB::


Even more research!
I have read over the entire text of the law. It does not include any new prohibitions on any persons not *ALREADY* classified as unable to own a firearm.

It just appears to be an attempt to streamline the backround check system! But we all know how well that kind of regulation usually works. :?

Here is an even clearer link that may clear up some misconceptions about the bill; http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=246&issue=018


Having ADHD, under current law, DOES NOT define you as "mentally defective", such a determination must be made by a court.

My greatest suggestion though is... please do your research before starting a thread. It's not the job of the people posting after the fact to do all the research. Post your sources! Give us references! If you make a claim or cite some legislation or news story please post the link so factual information can be gotten.
 

wrightme

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Dispatcher, from the GOA link you provided, I think we can determine the source of much of the "information" about H.R.2640 that causes threads like this.

http://gunowners.org/ne0704.htm

Specifically, the following section penned by Mike Hammond:
By Mike Hammond, legislative counsel to GOA
May 15, 2007


SUMMARY In the wake of BATFE's most recent letter of May 9, 2007, spelling out its current position on who is a prohibited person by reason of a mental defect, I have sought to lay out the current state of law. My conclusion is that, particularly in the hands of an anti-gun administration, there is a substantial danger that the term "prohibited person" can include the following:
* Persons who are ordered by courts to be evaluated by psychologists or psychiatrists in connection with child custody or other proceedings (the so-called "Alec Baldwin proviso");
* Persons who, in a wide variety of juvenile cases, are evaluated by psychiatrists because of school-related problems, and perhaps put on Ritalin as a result;
* Seniors receiving home health care under Medicare who are evaluated by professionals for Alzheimer's;
* Veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder; * Persons who are arrested and referred, without due process, for psychiatric evaluation, followed by a finding that the person has no mental or emotional problems or does not require commitment;
* Persons whose psychologists commit them with no due process at all.
The date of this "op-ed" piece is prior to the amended current wording of the version that passed. Even though the wording as engrossed does not include wording to add PTSD and ADHD to the banned list, these views are still being propagated, whether they are based in fact or not.
 

Dispatcher

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wrightme wrote:
Dispatcher, from the GOA link you provided, I think we can determine the source of much of the "information" about H.R.2640 that causes threads like this.

http://gunowners.org/ne0704.htm

Specifically, the following section penned by Mike Hammond:
By Mike Hammond, legislative counsel to GOA
May 15, 2007


SUMMARY In the wake of BATFE's most recent letter of May 9, 2007, spelling out its current position on who is a prohibited person by reason of a mental defect, I have sought to lay out the current state of law. My conclusion is that, particularly in the hands of an anti-gun administration, there is a substantial danger that the term "prohibited person" can include the following:
* Persons who are ordered by courts to be evaluated by psychologists or psychiatrists in connection with child custody or other proceedings (the so-called "Alec Baldwin proviso");
* Persons who, in a wide variety of juvenile cases, are evaluated by psychiatrists because of school-related problems, and perhaps put on Ritalin as a result;
* Seniors receiving home health care under Medicare who are evaluated by professionals for Alzheimer's;
* Veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder; * Persons who are arrested and referred, without due process, for psychiatric evaluation, followed by a finding that the person has no mental or emotional problems or does not require commitment;
* Persons whose psychologists commit them with no due process at all.
The date of this "op-ed" piece is prior to the amended current wording of the version that passed. Even though the wording as engrossed does not include wording to add PTSD and ADHD to the banned list, these views are still being propagated, whether they are based in fact or not.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that some don't do their homework.
 

skidmark

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Good Googly Moogly! Here is the $&%&$ Public Law Razor is getting his panties twisted about http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ180.110.pdf.

NOWHERE in any of the language does it say that a person can be prohibitted from possessing a firearm because there is a history of having at any time in their life been prescribed either of the drugs he rants on about.

Nor does that bit of legislation endanger the rights of veterans to possess a firearm because they received mental health services, unless there was an adjudication (full-blown court hearing, with certain proceedings clearly identified as NOT counting against possession) of incompetenceor committment to involuntary hospitalization beyond a 72-hour assessment.

Everybody take a step back and take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

Citizen

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skidmark wrote:
Good Googly Moogly! Here is the $&%&$ Public Law Razor is getting his panties twisted about http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ180.110.pdf.

NOWHERE in any of the language does it say that a person can be prohibitted from possessing a firearm because there is a history of having at any time in their life been prescribed either of the drugs he rants on about.

Nor does that bit of legislation endanger the rights of veterans to possess a firearm because they received mental health services, unless there was an adjudication (full-blown court hearing, with certain proceedings clearly identified as NOT counting against possession) of incompetenceor committment to involuntary hospitalization beyond a 72-hour assessment.

Everybody take a step back and take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.

stay safe.

skidmark

Just using Skidmark's post as a jumping off point. Not a criticism.

I never really took Razor's posts to mean it was a fait accompli. I took it to mean that it was entirely possible. I took the reference to HR such-and-such passing the house to be evidence that we came close, meaning there was support there for such.

I think he was just trying to alert us to another possible avenue for gun control.

Given the recent multiple murders by mentally disturbed people, it certainly seems possible the anti-gunners might try to use mental problems to deny people guns. They tried it here in VA after VA Tech.
 

R a Z o R

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What is Lou Dobbs saying about our second amendment ? Being new to OC your input is welcomed . Am I supposed to believe the lapsman Richard Durbin ? Don't you love it when the ultimate goal of the gun-grabbers is brought into the conversation and they have to back off the attack and even support the RKBA ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CQgywaUWv8

The more dots that are being connected are revealing an attack on our Bill of Rights .
 

wrightme

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R a Z o R wrote:
What is Lou Dobbs saying about our second amendment ? Being new to OC your input is welcomed . Am I supposed to believe the lapsman Richard Durbin ? Don't you love it when the ultimate goal of the gun-grabbers is brought into the conversation and they have to back off the attack and even support the RKBA ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CQgywaUWv8

The more dots that are being connected are revealing an attack on our Bill of Rights .
Lou Dobbs is saying what the majority of us in OCDO already know. Politicians from Illinois don't get it. Since the election of Obama, the majority of lawful gun owners realized that the Obama administration wished to increase gun control, no matter the bleatings of his supporters that he did not desire it. I have seen nothing to dissuade me of that impression.

Firearms and ammunition are flowing out of the shops practically as soon as they hit the shelves; especially common calibers of handgun cartridges, and just about all reloading components possible. That flow is not because we all think Obama and the current Senate/Congress aren't going to attempt to infringe.

BUT, I seriously doubt all the talk of ADHD and PTSD wrt H.R.2640. The language does not support it. To "connect the dots" to get that conclusion takes more than a bit of a reach. It also takes creative writing, as evidenced by the GOA.
 

YllwFvr

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R a Z o R wrote:
What is Lou Dobbs saying about our second amendment ? Being new to OC your input is welcomed . Am I supposed to believe the lapsman Richard Durbin ? Don't you love it when the ultimate goal of the gun-grabbers is brought into the conversation and they have to back off the attack and even support the RKBA ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CQgywaUWv8

The more dots that are being connected are revealing an attack on our Bill of Rights .

Unless I read that post wrong I saw nothing but good remarks in that video. They enforced the 2a and said that attempting to remove it would be political suicide and we need to enforce our border security. Or rather REinforce it. I saw one comment under the video I liked very much.

Put american soldiers on your border in trouble areas. Its true, the border patrol is glorified PD an they can only do so much. How much damage are these mexicans gonna do when faced with trained fighters? Bring some back from Iraq and put war hardened vets on the border. I think the Minute Men need to get back to building that fence!

As to the add deal, it may have happened to some extent up north but here? Everyone I know that has ever gone to the to be examined for it has been diagnosed with ADD. Its like Disorderly Conduct for cops, Drs throw it everywhere. I dont have it thats for damn sure. I can sit and read a book for hours yet thats why you explain away my poor grades? Its BORING thats why lol. Honestly if they went that route it would be more acceptable to the public I think if they banned people with more violent disorders like Bipolar. ADD? Cmon the american public may be blind but we can still smell Bullshit.

Like the 20/20 school shooting scenario. The website got flooded with everyday ignorant americans scoffing at how stupid that setup was. We may be on the downward slope but america isnt over the edge yet.
 

R a Z o R

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Medically legally speaking it sure is good that we have the power to insist that our RKBA are not ever infringed . When everI turns on the light the cockaroaches run and hide . That's why I keep da lights on around here . MANANA
 

wrightme

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R a Z o R wrote:
Medically legally speaking it sure is good that we have the power to insist that our RKBA are not ever infringed .

Really? Who has made such a statement? Not ever infringed?
When ever I turns on the light the cockaroaches run and hide . That's why I keep da lights on around here .
Which cockaroaches? Who ran and hid?
 
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