Driving thru Virginia Commonwealth University w/ Concealed Handgun & CHP?

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*ok, I know this isn't about Open-Carrying, but I was told by a member of this forum to try posting on this forum to get some answers. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction*

I am a VA resident and have a valid CHP to carry concealed. In the Code of Virginia, there is a law that says that concealed handguns are not allowed at VCU. BUT, this university is INTEGRATED into the city and the city's streets (meaning it is not fenced off on it's own property as is University of Mary Washington and University of Richmond). So this means that city streets run through the campus, and residents of Richmond (like myself) who are not VCU students will sometimes have to drive through the campus to get to their final destinations

With that said, I drive THROUGH VCU to get to certain destinations such as Carytown and use Main Street (or any of the other streets that run through VCU) to get there. Main Street runs through VCU. I am assuming that Main Street is CITY PROPERTY the entire length that it runs through VCU.

Therefore my questions are:
*Are these streets still considered non-VCU property even though they run through the campus?
*If I am driving on Main Street while traveling through the VCU campus, am I legally allowed to carry as long as I stay in my car on the street?

I suppose these questions would be best answered by LEOs, lawyers, and those that are familiar w/ the law best. Thanks!

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This has been discussed before see: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21103and http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21154http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21154http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21154http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21154

Also use of the search function at top of page may come up with more results.

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Welcome to the forum! Kick of your shoes and stay awhile. Attend one of the monthly OC dinners in your area and meet a ton of great folks.

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While VCU police have certain powers on the city streets running through the "campus," those streets are still public and covered by preemption.

City streets and sidewalks along the streets (right-of-ways) are not part of VCU as is private property within the "boundaries" not VCU i.e. 7-11.

Good rule of thumb - do not walk on the grass.

Point of fact - I have had discussions with VCU police while standing on the sidewalk OCing, even directly in front of their headquarters.

Monroe Park is owned by the City of Richmond but maintained by VCU - so it is still city property.

There is a very strong case for VCU not having legal authority to ban the general public from carrying on VCU property. We just haven't found a good test case yet but it will happen someday.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

While VCU police have certain powers on the city streets running through the "campus," those streets are still public and covered by preemption.

City streets and sidewalks along the streets (right-of-ways) are not part of VCU as is private property within the "boundaries" not VCU i.e. 7-11.

Good rule of thumb - do not walk on the grass.

Point of fact - I have had discussions with VCU police while standing on the sidewalk OCing, even directly in front of their headquarters.

Monroe Park is owned by the City of Richmond but maintained by VCU - so it is still city property.

There is a very strong case for VCU not having legal authority to ban the general public from carrying on VCU property. We just haven't found a good test case yet but it will happen someday.

Yata hey

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Hopefully the GMU lawsuit will settle this question

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essayons wrote:

Welcome to the forum! Kick of your shoes and stay awhile. Attend one of the monthly OC dinners in your area and meet a ton of great folks.

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Always on the 2nd Tuesday of each month in Richmond. Look for the posting to appear 7-10 days in advance.

Yata hey

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The prohibition against carrying a firearm on VCU property is only for "members of the University community" - students, teachers, other staff members. Its a Va. administrative statute, not a criminal statute.

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See AG opinion at http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/OP-05-078.pdf



PS Welcome

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Excellent! So then, since I'm not a student, I should be OK CCing not only on the streets but also on campus grounds (just as long as I don't enter any buildings).

I did go to VCU for undergrad, but no longer go here (or live here). I moved from Richmond 2 years ago and I now live in Norfolk, but occasionally travel here every other week to see friends and my fiancee.

Thank you for the many "welcomes"!

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doodman wrote:

Excellent! So then, since I'm not a student, I should be OK CCing not only on the streets but also on campus grounds (just as long as I don't enter any buildings).

I did go to VCU for undergrad, but no longer go here (or live here). I moved from Richmond 2 years ago and I now live in Norfolk, but occasionally travel here every other week to see friends and my fiancee.

Thank you for the many "welcomes"!

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Caution: Only do so on campus grounds if you are willing to be a test case.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

doodman wrote:

Excellent!  So then, since I'm not a student, I should be OK CCing not only on the streets but also on campus grounds (just as long as I don't enter any buildings).

I did go to VCU for undergrad, but no longer go here (or live here).  I moved from Richmond 2 years ago and I now live in Norfolk, but occasionally travel here every other week to see friends and my fiancee. 

Thank you for the many "welcomes"!

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Caution:  Only do so on campus grounds if you are willing to be a test case.

                  Yata hey

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+1


The above posted AG OP pertains specifically to UVA (although I think it would apply to all public universities.) VCU has code in the books (noted above as well) that UVA does not. By the wording you would be completely within the law, hasn't been tested yet though.

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leprechaun117 wrote:

VCU has code in the books (noted above as well) that UVA does not.

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Note that the code here is Virginia Administrative Code, which in this case was written by the school if I'm not mistaken. Whoever wrote it, it's not a law passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor, and there are no criminal penalties associated with violation of this section of the VAC. (I suspect there are no criminal penalties anywhere in the VAC, but I haven't researched it, so I don't want to make that claim.)

That being said, before carrying on the VCU campus, especially openly, you must be prepared for hassle and inconvenience from the VCU police, and possibly becoming that "test case" Grapeshot referred to. That translates into time and money.

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TexasNative wrote:

leprechaun117 wrote:

VCU has code in the books (noted above as well) that UVA does not.

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Note that the code here is Virginia Administrative Code, which in this case was written by the school if I'm not mistaken. Whoever wrote it, it's not a law passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor, and there are no criminal penalties associated with violation of this section of the VAC. (I suspect there are no criminal penalties anywhere in the VAC, but I haven't researched it, so I don't want to make that claim.)

That being said, before carrying on the VCU campus, especially openly, you must be prepared for hassle and inconvenience from the VCU police, and possibly becoming that "test case" Grapeshot referred to. That translates into time and money.

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Exactly, until there is a test case we'll never know. As long as you stick to Monroe Park I don't know how they could see you OCing through all the homeless people....

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leprechaun117 wrote:

Exactly, until there is a test case we'll never know. As long as you stick to Monroe Park I don't know how they could see you OCing through all the homeless people...

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They prefer the term "transitionally unsheltered citizens".

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wylde007 wrote:

leprechaun117 wrote:

Exactly, until there is a test case we'll never know. As long as you stick to Monroe Park I don't know how they could see you OCing through all the homeless people...

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They prefer the term "transitionally unsheltered citizens".

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LOL. A few years ago it was "alternatively homed underhoused peoples"

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TexasNative wrote:

leprechaun117 wrote:

VCU has code in the books (noted above as well) that UVA does not.

Click to expand...

Note that the code here is Virginia Administrative Code, which in this case was written by the school if I'm not mistaken. Whoever wrote it, it's not a law passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor, and there are no criminal penalties associated with violation of this section of the VAC. (I suspect there are no criminal penalties anywhere in the VAC, but I haven't researched it, so I don't want to make that claim.)

That being said, before carrying on the VCU campus, especially openly, you must be prepared for hassle and inconvenience from the VCU police, and possibly becoming that "test case" Grapeshot referred to. That translates into time and money.

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Penalties under VAC

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC90-10-150

8VAC90-10-150. Penalties against a licensee or invitee.
When the accused is a licensee, invitee, or visitor, authorization to remain on the campus or other facilities used by the university may be withdrawn, and he may be directed to leave the premises. Failure to leave or unauthorized return may subject the individual to applicable penalties under city, county, or state laws. A licensee, invitee, or visitor may petition the president of the university in writing to authorize a hearing before the University Hearing Board to determine whether there are proper and sufficient grounds for being excluded from university premises. The University Hearing Board shall present its recommendations directly to the president. There will be no further appeal.
Statutory Authority
§ 23-50.10 of the Code of Virginia.
Historical Notes
Derived from VR649-01-01 § 3.8, eff. February 16, 1995.

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They can tell you to leave, and charge you with trespass if you refuse... and then you would have a good case for violation of your 2nd amendment and Section 13 Rights on publicly owned land.

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That's exactly what I'm talking about: there are no criminal penalties listed in the VAC (because no crimes are prohibited by the VAC). If someone gets charged with trespassing (and remember, that's in the Virginia Code, not the Virginia Administrative Code), that charge is due to them not leaving when told to do so, not for breaking one of their non-crime rules.

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TexasNative wrote:

That's exactly what I'm talking about: there are no criminal penalties listed in the VAC (because no crimes are prohibited by the VAC). If someone gets charged with trespassing (and remember, that's in the Virginia Code, not the Virginia Administrative Code), that charge is due to them not leaving when told to do so, not for breaking one of their non-crime rules.

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And that's where a good lawsuit case gets set up. For them telling you to leave simply because you're carrying a gun which is a protected right.