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Thread: My first negitive open carry experance

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    Today I was eating at a family restaurant alone. There was a family leaving and the man ask me if I had a CPL? I said yes I do. He told me he is a cop and quoted
    RCW 9.41.270. He told me that it cause alarm. I replied a gun in my holster is not intended to cause alarm. He said "yes it does you do not have a badge next to it." Then he left and I finished my lunch and went home. I have eaten there many times before with no problems . It seems like all cops use that wild card all the time
    (RCW 9.41 270). Is this something we OCs have to worry about in the future?
    What legal protection do we have so the Leo can't always use it? Thanks

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    Just thank them for their opinion and bid them a nice day.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    You were fed a line. I would have gotten the cop's name and badge number and taken it up with his superiors.

    There are too many agencies that have issued too many training bulletins about the legality of OC. Any department or officer that is not at least aware of the legality of peaceable OC is living in a special world apart from reality. That said some will try to keep you from doing it. People don't like change, cops even less so I would imagine.

    Just keep doing what you are doing, and mebbe drop a line to the local PD with a complete set of training bulletins and ask them to get in line with the rest of the state. Given as there are several very large or well respected agencies that have all ready issued bulletins, there is no reason for any other agency not to fall in line.

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    phone guy wrote:
    Today I was eating at a family restaurant alone. There was a family leaving and the man ask me if I had a CPL? I said yes I do. He told me he is a cop and quoted
    RCW 9.41.270. He told me that it cause alarm. I replied a gun in my holster is not intended to cause alarm. He said "yes it does you do not have a badge next to it."
    Since he thought enough of it to make a threat, I think I would have been inclined to hold our my wrists and ask him to arrest me.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    I think it would have been a good idea to get his name and badge number also, and if he asked you why you needed it, you could just say you need to make sure his superior officers got the memo on the legality of OC. This could have come out a couple of different ways, either he could have refused you his name and badge number (indicating he may have been an imposter, trying to be a tough guy) or it could have gone well and educated him on the legality of OC or.... he could have called his buddies and had you harassed for doing something you are perfectly within your rights to do.
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

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    There was no way I can discern what agency he was from. The conversation lasted for one minute. He was gone. Its like when your a kid you always have to have the last say. He got his in and was gone.

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    phone guy wrote:
    There was no way I can discern what agency he was from. The conversation lasted for one minute. He was gone. Its like when your a kid you always have to have the last say. He got his in and was gone.
    Ehh, then write it off as a weird encounter, and assume the guy if he was honest about being a LEO came from some more backwards place like California, New York City or Chicago.

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    If the conversation was only a minute and he left, then obviously you weren't a threat or else he would have stayed...

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    sv_libertarianlibertariansvsvlibertariansvsv_liber tarian wrote:
    phone guy wrote:
    There was no way I can discern what agency he was from. The conversation lasted for one minute. He was gone. Its like when your a kid you always have to have anEhhast say. HeEhht his in anEhhas gone.
    Ehh, then write it off as a weird encounter, and assume the guy if he was honest about being a LEO came from some more backwards place like California, New York City or Chicago.
    He was from the local area. His kids had soccer shirts from the local area.
    His first question to me was "do you have a CPL" ?

    Maybe I should of ignored him. Or ask him a question with a question, like who are you?
    But I am a friendly type guy so I answered his question with the answer he would like to hear.

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    Phone guy. What city was this in? Your profile doesn't say where you are. Perhaps if we had that information we could let you know if this has been dealt with in your area or not.

    I agree with others, blow it off. If he thought it was a problem, he would have stayed and called for back-up.
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    Why he was interested in your CPL? You should just ased hi "Who is asking? " or tell im that you do not need CPL for OC

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    j2l3 wrote:
    Phone guy. What city was this in? Your profile doesn't say where you are. Perhaps if we had that information we could let you know if this has been dealt with in your area or not.

    I agree with others, blow it off. If he thought it was a problem, he would have stayed and called for back-up.
    Everett. Yes I did bow it off, but I wanted to share this. I am always open for suggestions. I think it will be a learning experience for next time. This forum helps me feel ready for the next encounter.

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    I'm pretty sure Everett PD knows better, as does Snohomish County SO. Sounds like he was trying to "puff up" on behalf of his kids.
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    phone guy wrote:
    ....the man ask me if I had a CPL? I said yes I do. He told me he is a cop and quoted
    RCW 9.41.270. He told me that it cause alarm. I replied a gun in my holster is not intended to cause alarm. He said "yes it does you do not have a badge next to it."
    You know, a ringing from your phone does not obligate you to answer it. Someone poking at your doorbell does not obligate you to go see who it is. Likewise a stranger in a restaurant asking if you have a CPL does not obligate you to engage him or her in a conversation. It’s all in the person’s attitude and demeanor. Also, there’s no place in the law that uses the phrase “causes alarm”; you should know that and have informed him of that.

    If some ass-clown were to cop an attitude and ask me if I had a CPL I would reply, “I think that’s my business” and go back to what I was doing. If he informed me he was a cop I’d demand to see his ID and badge and write his badge number down and maybe take his picture with my cell phone. If he refused to provide his credentials I’d call 911 and report a police impersonator.



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    Mainsail wrote:
    phone guy wrote:
    ....the man ask me if I had a CPL? I said yes I do. He told me he is a cop and quoted
    RCW 9.41.270. He told me that it cause alarm. I replied a gun in my holster is not intended to cause alarm. He said "yes it does you do not have a badge next to it."
    You know, a ringing from your phone does not obligate you to answer it. Someone poking at your doorbell does not obligate you to go see who it is. Likewise a stranger in a restaurant asking if you have a CPL does not obligate you to engage him or her in a conversation. It’s all in the person’s attitude and demeanor. Also, there’s no place in the law that uses the phrase “causes alarm”; you should know that and have informed him of that.

    If some ass-clown were to cop an attitude and ask me if I had a CPL I would reply, “I think that’s my business” and go back to what I was doing. If he informed me he was a cop I’d demand to see his ID and badge and write his badge number down and maybe take his picture with my cell phone. If he refused to provide his credentials I’d call 911 and report a police impersonator.

    So true. They always have this attitude. I know if I seen anyone open carrying a gun in a holster and wearing nice cloths I'd never challenge him/her. But this guy had to come up to me.

    It's not like he was in uniform and management ask him to confront me.

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    phone guy wrote:
    So true. They always have this attitude. I know if I seen anyone open carrying a gun in a holster and wearing nice cloths I'd never challenge him/her. But this guy had to come up to me.

    It's not like he was in uniform and management ask him to confront me.
    Now that is not always the case. I've walked by cops in Seattle who have just given me a quick look over and nothing more. I know cops in Olympia that I have serious gun conversations with and joke about my fondness for soviet style arms. It's all about the individual officer.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    His first question to me was "do you have a CPL" ?
    You know, it just struck me, the best answer to that question to me is, and I will answer it this way next time I am asked:

    I don't need one, I am not carrying a concealed pistol.

    That way you do not divulge if you have a CPL or not and it should settle the issue.
    Well, if it's a real cop, your first question should be, "Am I being detained?" If you're not being detained the CPL is immaterial.

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    He told me he was a cop toward the end of his conversation.
    Next time NavyLT had the best answer. That's a good answer for cops or old ladies.
    It not a rude answer just a carefully skilled answer.



    Want to get together for another lunch or dinner, phone guy?

    Sounds good NavyLT. I don't get to Oak Harbor much. I still have your phone#
    And yes I know you do not have a cell phone.
    If I do it will on a day trip. I will give you a call.


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    NavyLT wrote:
    His first question to me was "do you have a CPL" ?
    You know, it just struck me, the best answer to that question to me is, and I will answer it this way next time I am asked:

    I don't need one, I am not carrying a concealed pistol.

    That way you do not divulge if you have a CPL or not and it should settle the issue.
    I see what you mean, but then you would be divulging that you only have one firearm.

    How about: "A CPL is not required for open carry."
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    NavyLT wrote:
    phone guy wrote:
    He told me he was a cop toward the end of his conversation.
    Next time NavyLT had the best answer. That's a good answer for cops or old ladies.
    It not a rude answer just a carefully skilled answer.



    Want to get together for another lunch or dinner, phone guy?

    Sounds good NavyLT. I don't get to Oak Harbor much. I still have your phone#
    And yes I know you do not have a cell phone.
    If I do it will on a day trip. I will give you a call.
    Nothing says I can't meet you in your neck of the woods.
    The Everett area has a lot of gun friendly restaurants. I work part time so if you do call me. I PMed my cell # to you last time.do you still have it?

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    He told me he was a cop toward the end of his conversation.
    Well, IMO that puts things in a different light. I assume you mean that you had no way of knowing the person was a police officer, that they were not in uniform and did not display their badge. In that case, why not respond to "Do you have a CPL?" by saying--in a polite, conversational way, mind you, not in a what's-it-to-you manner--"Why do you ask?"

    It's not like you'd be faking it! You should be genuinely curious why the person is asking you--are they a hoplophobe, a plainclothes or off-duty Only One*, someone who has a CPL themselves but doesn't know that open carry is legal, etc. You can't know, until they say.

    I suggest this by analogy to what someone else here reported in response to the "Are you a cop?" question. They replied, "Why, is there a situation?"

    Turn the tables on the questioner, and make them articulate what they think the problem is.

    [line]
    *I very specifically mean to include only those LEO's who have us-vs-them attitudes and think ordinary citizens shouldn't exercise their legal rights. If you're in law enforcement and don't conduct yourself in this way, then you're not included (so please don't take offense!)

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    phone guy wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    phone guy wrote:
    He told me he was a cop toward the end of his conversation.
    Next time NavyLT had the best answer. That's a good answer for cops or old ladies.
    It not a rude answer just a carefully skilled answer.



    Want to get together for another lunch or dinner, phone guy?

    Sounds good NavyLT. I don't get to Oak Harbor much. I still have your phone#
    And yes I know you do not have a cell phone.
    If I do it will on a day trip. I will give you a call.
    Nothing says I can't meet you in your neck of the woods.
    The Everett area has a lot of gun friendly restaurants. I work part time so if you do call me. I PMed my cell # to you last time.do you still have it?
    LT, You can swing by me place i'm right off the i-5.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    If you guys do Everett then I might have to meet the two of you.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Manu wrote:
    Why he was interested in your CPL? You should just ased hi "Who is asking? " or tell im that you do not need CPL for OC
    I agree with Manu my standard reply lately when people ask if I have a cpl is that in Washington state I don't need one to openly carry. I gave out several flyers this past week with this reply, a lot of people just don't realize that is legal. Most people I have encountered are intrigued and want to know more

    This story brings me to my story from yesterday. I was in Oak Harbor and worked late so I went to Taco del Mar for a bite to eat. There was a female trooper and her family eating there while I was ordering my take out. The timing worked out that they were leaving as I was entering my car wich was parked directly in front of the door.

    I took the opportunity to grab a flyer and and said "Hi, being in Law Enforcement I thought you might find this interesting."

    She took it and stated very friendly "Oh I never saw this one, thanks. What group is this." Me, "Open carry.org, I normally carry everywhere I go but I have been on the job all day"

    Her,"What do you do for work" Me "Construction, heresmy card" I always take opportunity to hand those out when possible too.

    Now heres the interesting part in my opinion she stated. "Well unfortunately due to my job I can't mention my opinion either way"

    I stated , "Believe me some LEO's definately do."

    She said "I like my job to much, and don't want to loose it. But thanks for the info and I will look this up."

    It was a very freindly encounter, and I ended up having a lot of respect for her. I was left with the impression that she doesn't let her personal feelings one way or another interfere with her duties as a public servant.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    again?


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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