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Thread: Open Carry "Can I see your Pistol"?

  1. #1
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    I was showing my brothers the new holster this weekend when one of them hit me with a question I couldn't answer.



    Situation: Walking the dog, with the .40 in the hip holster. Granny long nose calls the 5-O cause some man is walking around with a gun in her hood.

    The cops roll up and ask me questions. Not insults, no threats, just nice normal chattyness.

    Then the officer asks, "Can I take a look at that, I haven't "handled" one of those particular brand/model/whatever's"???



    What do you do then?

    Can they ask you to take it out of the holster and (something)?

    Anybody got any knowledge on this. Once you take it out of the holster without a life or death situation have you violated any ordnances or state laws?



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    Just on the face of it, I would deny a request of anyone (cop or not) to casually handle a carry firearm. There is simply no good reason to allow such acts.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Could an officer use your refusal to submit your firearm as a grounds for making a disorderly conduct charge do you think?

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Good way to get a 'brandishing' charge on you. 'Think the cop would have let you 'look at' his pistol? I think not. Never relinquish your firearm to anyone unless you're being arrested and disarmed.

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    Butterbone wrote:
    Then the officer asks, "Can I take a look at that, I haven't "handled" one of those particular brand/model/whatever's"???



    What do you do then?

    Can they ask you to take it out of the holster and (something)?

    Anybody got any knowledge on this. Once you take it out of the holster without a life or death situation have you violated any ordnances or state laws?

    It depends on what you want to do. If you're in a chatty mood as well, and the cop seems friendly, I'd think it was cool. I've heard some officers are gun fanatics, and some do not care. If one asks, you likely have the former. I would understand, because some cops have not had the opportunity to handle an Ed Brown 1911, or even a Kimber 1911. They would not likely ask you to take it out of the holster yourself. If they did ask that, I'd indicate my preference they come and remove it from the holster.

    I would NEVER remove my gun from my holster in public, except for lawful purposes of self defense.

    Now, if you're carrying a Glock, and they ask that question, they are most likely polling you for information for their investigation. All cops are familiar with Glocks. My understanding is that I'd have no obligation to speak to an officer, unless I am being detained. You won't know if you're being detained, unless you ASK. It's as simple as "Officer, and I being detained, or may I leave?" The question should be answered, and if it isn't, I would repeat the question until it is.

    See flexyourrights.org, and watch the video called "Busted: A Citizens Guide to Surviving Police Encounters" on youtube. The information is quite valuable for those of us who OC. In fact, I would not recommend anyone OC until they do know how to properly conduct themselves in a police encounter. It is a persons behavior that generally messes things up in such encounters.

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    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Butterbone wrote:
    Could an officer use your refusal to submit your firearm as a grounds for making a disorderly conduct charge do you think?
    IMHO, absolutely not!

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    Putting my hand on my weapon in a drawing motion, in public for one and in front of a cop for two, is asking to be arrested or killed. If the guy is truely interested, then invite him/her over for a drink AFTER their shift is over, or better yet meet up at the range and let them shoot it, that is what I would do.

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    So a "brandishing" charge would be you holding a gun in your hand in public without immediate need or cause?

    I'll put aside the pedantic ideal of waving it around in a threatening manner. But just the simple principle of holding the pistol in my hand on a public sidewalk could count as "brandishing" do you think?

    Would that be a correct characterization?

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    If you pull that pistol from it's holsterin public... with no apparent need to do so... That's brandishing. The simple act of having it in hand. 'Be the same thing with a long gun held at port arms. NEVER openly'show' your weapon to anyone in public, nor relinquish immediate physical control of it to anyone.



    Only answer to a 'Can I see that?" question is: NO.

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    What about a rifle or shotgun on a sling over your shoulder?

    I knowwhen I was younger I tromped all over Kenton Co. Ky with a .410 slung over my shoulder during the spring and winter. This was pertty much on farmland back then, little windy roads with no sidewalks, but I am wondering if that would fly even today.

    Have things really changed that much? That a kid can't just, head off into the woods to plink tree branches and old cans? Maybe duece a crow every now and then.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Sling arms or trail armsis 'same as holstered with a long gun. No hands on the comb or grip near the trigger.

    And to answer your second question... not many places... not any more.

    Once upon a time it was a different world... I lived in it... and it's gone.

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    As in most situations there is really no defiant answer. It all depends. Now if it was a civilian I would defiantly say no. I never let them handle my reenacting weapons let alone my carry weapon. The only one I would would be a very close friend but they would never ask in public. As far as a LEO I would doubt they would ask, and if the did they would not charge you. That would be entrapment. IT would have to be a very friendly conversation. If I was to upholster my Glock 30 to show them first thing I would do is drop the magazine and clear it.

    When I show my if they do not clear the weapon even if I had done it before I hand it to them I would never let them touch another one again.

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    thnycav wrote:
    Now if it was a civilian I would defiantly say no. I never let them handle my reenacting weapons let alone my carry weapon. The only one I would would be a very close friend but they would never ask in public. As far as a LEO I would doubt they would ask, and if the did they would not charge you.

    Just to clarify - a LEO is also a civilian, unless of Military Police... A civilian is anyone that is not a member of a country's armed forces (by definition).

    I agree with the earlier comment though that you can offer to meet at the range, or somewhere else to show the gun. Just like I wouldn't let someone sit in the drivers seat of my car with the engine running because they have never been in that model car before. I am sure the LEO would respect that, and would probably think more highly of you as being a responsible citizen (and not one that shows of their gun when someone asks).

    My $.02

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    Regular Member thnycav's Avatar
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    Like I said I doubt that they would ever ask in the first place. Having said that to show my weapon in public like that it would be a very rare occasion. I think if a LEO did ask to see mine I would ask to see theirs as well. I work with the Military Police and do know allot of LEOs I come in contact at work, and like I said they are professional enough not to ask. What hits home with me as well it is not in good taste to ask some one else to ride their horse.

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    Good idea - in the spirit of answering a question with a question - if asked, state "Of course you can see it if I can see yours first". :celebrate

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    Madrigar wrote:
    Good idea - in the spirit of answering a question with a question - if asked, state "Of course you can see it if I can see yours first". :celebrate
    "I'll show you mine if you show me yours."
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Then the officer asks, "Can I take a look at that, I haven't "handled" one of those particular brand/model/whatever's"???
    They won't ask.

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    Yeah like I said, it was just a question I didn't have an answer for.

    Of course the brother who asked is also the one who is convinced that every cop, every where, in every situation, is looking for any and every reason to ticket or arrest every person they come in contact with, on and off duty.

    So, you just gotta roll with it.

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    Butterbone wrote:
    Yeah like I said, it was just a question I didn't have an answer for.

    Of course the brother who asked is also the one who is convinced that every cop, every where, in every situation, is looking for any and every reason to ticket or arrest every person they come in contact with, on and off duty.

    So, you just gotta roll with it.
    Live your life in your brothers mind-set and you may occasionally be pleasantly surprised but you'll never be disappointed.

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    Nah!
    That's "glass half empty" almost to the point of "Someone is trying to empty my glass behind my back".

    I prefer, "I measured the glass. It has X amount. Deal with it". LOL

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    My town's police chief wanted to see mine. Of course, he knew me, and I knew him. I was the Borough Council President and I was open carrying in the borough council building during a council meeting (not illegal here in Pennsylvania). The first think I did was remove the magazine, then racked the slide to remove the round in the chamber, then I handed it to him butt first. He had never seen a Hi-Point before.

    Oh, Pennsylvania doesn't have any brandishing law, either.

    He prefers his Glock. I prefer my Hi-Point. I guess that's why they have horse races.

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    I wouldn't want the officer's request to examine my carry gun to turn into either of these:

    1) A serial number check, and his writing down of same. Far as I know none of my firearms would show up on the national 'hot sheet' database. But why subject myself to that nonsense? Those records are not kept up with 100% accuracy.

    2) A negligent discharge because the officer didn't know how to safely handle my 1911 or Browning Hi Power.



    But obviously I'd make exceptions for LEO's of my acquaintence.

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    You might consider inviting him to the range, then he could shoot as well.
    You can't brandish when firing, I don't think even the idiots on juries
    have gotten that dumb yet. But on the street, no way, no how.
    Or let him know where you bought it, and he can go get one also.

    If you must show off the gun, remember the leo in supermarket freezer....
    LEO == ND, especially if he hasn't seen one before.

    A simple "I am sorry, but I do not want to empty the chamber and
    risk bullet setback on my carry rounds." should do the trick.
    If not, throw the dog one way, and run the other.


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    IMHO:

    Purely simple,

    1. No such thing as a brandishing charge in KY the only thing in KRS mentioning "brandishing" is in regards to weapons on school property.

    2. The weapon doesn't come out of the holster unless it's going to be used or being put away. I use the same policy with friends, family, and LEOs.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    I still have a hard time believing some LEOs are not familiar with at least basic 1911 nomenclature, for the purposes of disarming someone safely. :shock:

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