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Officer has ND while on school campus

HankT

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LEO 229 wrote:
This is clearly a freakish accident. The odds of this ever happening again are so remote it is not funny.

Actually, another ND would be an independent event. In probabalistic terms this means that the odds of a future ND are about the same as the one that just happened.

Think about it.

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Crossfire Jedi

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It's a catastrophic success :what:

HankT wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
This is clearly a freakish accident. The odds of this ever happening again are so remote it is not funny.

Actually, another ND would be an independent event. In probabalistic terms this means that the odds of a future ND are about the same as the one that just happened.

Think about it.

39.gif
 

old dog

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Actually, Glocks are popular with police executives because they are relatively inexpensive and operation is so simple they are easy to teach to non-gun people, i.e. many big-city recruits.

Carrying a Glock is like carrying a cocked revolver. Notice that nearly all ADs occur when the Glock is being reholstered.

Sorry, but I feel they are unsafe in all but the most experienced, most aware hands. A much better solution in my opinion is the standard DAO semi-auto. It combines the best of both worlds -- capacity and simple operation. Next best is the D/SA a la SIG and Beretta.

I, too, like 1911s but I can foresee problems for police carrying them cocked and locked. Still, safer than a Glock.
 

HankT

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old dog wrote:
Actually, Glocks are popular with police executives because they are relatively inexpensive and operation is so simple they are easy to teach to non-gun people, i.e. many big-city recruits.

Carrying a Glock is like carrying a cocked revolver. Notice that nearly all ADs occur when the Glock is being reholstered.

Sorry, but I feel they are unsafe in all but the most experienced, most aware hands. A much better solution in my opinion is the standard DAO semi-auto. It combines the best of both worlds -- capacity and simple operation. Next best is the D/SA a la SIG and Beretta.

I, too, like 1911s but I can foresee problems for police carrying them cocked and locked. Still, safer than a Glock.
A GLOCK without one in the chamber would solve almost all ofits ND problems too.

That's one obvious solution.

Would work with any other semi-autos that have an ND problem.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Of course after you fire a semi in the holster there will be a hole for the key
to reach the trigger. I want to see this holster that withstood the slide action
while the pistol was still in it.

Where did the brass go that tried to be ejected? How did it chamber the next round?
I've never shot a pistol while in the holster, but I'm betting there wouldn't be
much left of it after the first round.

Then we have the problem of his finger being under the barrel while pulling up the belt.
How can this be? Does the glock have a muzzle safety that stops it from
fireing if you press in on the barrel slide?

Any bets this is another less than honest report by someone busy CYA'ing.
And finally, useing our tax dollars to employ this moron, if the school is paying him,
then they can fire him also.

Oh, my keys are hanging out of my pants, I guess I'll shake my gun to let help
them go in. Yep that makes perfect sence to me.
More likely he was flashing some little tart and it went off when he dropped his
pants.

But is this a OC plain cloths event? I never herd of leo carrying this way.
Or one more example that CC is much more dangerous.
 

Sonora Rebel

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The Glock is essentially a Europeanmilitary type pistol. Europeansare not historically a handgun culture. Military sidearms are sort of a badge of office with them... as is evidenced by the types of fully enclosed holsters they use. I don't think the Glock was meant to be carried with one in the tube at all... but slide activated when drawn.
 

lostone1413

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HankT wrote:
old dog wrote:
Actually, Glocks are popular with police executives because they are relatively inexpensive and operation is so simple they are easy to teach to non-gun people, i.e. many big-city recruits.

Carrying a Glock is like carrying a cocked revolver. Notice that nearly all ADs occur when the Glock is being reholstered.

Sorry, but I feel they are unsafe in all but the most experienced, most aware hands. A much better solution in my opinion is the standard DAO semi-auto. It combines the best of both worlds -- capacity and simple operation. Next best is the D/SA a la SIG and Beretta.

I, too, like 1911s but I can foresee problems for police carrying them cocked and locked. Still, safer than a Glock.
A GLOCK without one in the chamber would solve almost all ofits ND problems too.

That's one obvious solution.

Would work with any other semi-autos that have an ND problem.

trouble is 90% of the fights start at 10 feet or less the majority of them begin at 6feet. Nothing like the movies. At that distance with someone trying to knife you or shoot you do you really think you have the time to rack your gun?? Bet not

Far as the one saying that the 1911 is better with the two safeties you know that one of the all time great self defense instructors was Rax Applegate. He used the 1911 all the time far as I know. I know he disabled both of the safeties on the 1911. He knew in the real world that the shooting starts soon as the gun clears the holster. Their is no time even if you think of it to unlock the safety. Do a search on Matt Temkin. He was at one time a student of Applegate. He now in my book is one of the top instructors in defensive shooting in the Real World in the country and yes I have trained with Matt
 

SlackwareRobert

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lostone1413 wrote:
HankT wrote:
old dog wrote:

Far as the one saying that the 1911 is better with the two safeties you know that one of the all time great self defense instructors was Rax Applegate. He used the 1911 all the time far as I know. I know he disabled both of the safeties on the 1911. He knew in the real world that the shooting starts soon as the gun clears the holster. Their is no time even if you think of it to unlock the safety. Do a search on Matt Temkin. He was at one time a student of Applegate. He now in my book is one of the top instructors in defensive shooting in the Real World in the country and yes I have trained with Matt
I have no problem with the grip safety, if I don't have the weapon in my hand I don't
want it to fire. As for the second safety, I just know you mean the trigger, and
again, no problem with needing to pull it for me.

But we need a poll question....
How many of us would still have our licence if we fired off a shot in a school.
Or would the sheriff pull it before the doc finished bandaging our boo boo.
 

HungSquirrel

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Those of you who don't consider Glocks to be safe: what are your opinions of similar firearms which include other safety systems, such as the XD with the grip safety?
 

Ganghater

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I like GLOCK. I often grab my holster when I cinch my belt tight... but I never place any body part over the pipe. One in the breach keeps me ready and reminds me that all guns are loaded and no safety will prevent carelessness.
 

marshaul

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lostone1413 wrote:
Far as the one saying that the 1911 is better with the two safeties you know that one of the all time great self defense instructors was Rax Applegate. He used the 1911 all the time far as I know. I know he disabled both of the safeties on the 1911. He knew in the real world that the shooting starts soon as the gun clears the holster. Their is no time even if you think of it to unlock the safety. Do a search on Matt Temkin. He was at one time a student of Applegate. He now in my book is one of the top instructors in defensive shooting in the Real World in the country and yes I have trained with Matt
If Mr. Applegate believed that there is additional "time" required to deactivate the safety on a 1911, then he never properly learned how to draw and present a 1911-type handgun which is carried condition 1 with the safety engaged. Probably from removing all his safeties and never bothering to learn as a result. :lol:

Furthermore, your post is one big appeal to authority. :p I don't need Mr. Applegate to tell me what I can't do, just as I don't need anybody to tell me that I can disable the safety on my 1911 while presenting the weapon, with no additional delay.
 

Crossfire Jedi

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To solve this discussion, someone can provide their 1911 to me. I promise to give it back :what::D

marshaul wrote:
lostone1413 wrote:
Far as the one saying that the 1911 is better with the two safeties you know that one of the all time great self defense instructors was Rax Applegate. He used the 1911 all the time far as I know. I know he disabled both of the safeties on the 1911. He knew in the real world that the shooting starts soon as the gun clears the holster. Their is no time even if you think of it to unlock the safety. Do a search on Matt Temkin. He was at one time a student of Applegate. He now in my book is one of the top instructors in defensive shooting in the Real World in the country and yes I have trained with Matt
If Mr. Applegate believed that there is additional "time" required to deactivate the safety on a 1911, then he never properly learned how to draw and present a 1911-type handgun which is carried condition 1 with the safety engaged. Probably from removing all his safeties and never bothering to learn as a result. :lol:

Furthermore, your post is one big appeal to authority. :p I don't need Mr. Applegate to tell me what I can't do, just as I don't need anybody to tell me that I can disable the safety on my 1911 while presenting the weapon, with no additional delay.
 

lostone1413

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Crossfire Jedi wrote:
To solve this discussion, someone can provide their 1911 to me. I promise to give it back :what::D

marshaul wrote:
lostone1413 wrote:
Far as the one saying that the 1911 is better with the two safeties you know that one of the all time great self defense instructors was Rax Applegate. He used the 1911 all the time far as I know. I know he disabled both of the safeties on the 1911. He knew in the real world that the shooting starts soon as the gun clears the holster. Their is no time even if you think of it to unlock the safety. Do a search on Matt Temkin. He was at one time a student of Applegate. He now in my book is one of the top instructors in defensive shooting in the Real World in the country and yes I have trained with Matt
If Mr. Applegate believed that there is additional "time" required to deactivate the safety on a 1911, then he never properly learned how to draw and present a 1911-type handgun which is carried condition 1 with the safety engaged. Probably from removing all his safeties and never bothering to learn as a result. :lol:

Furthermore, your post is one big appeal to authority. :p I don't need Mr. Applegate to tell me what I can't do, just as I don't need anybody to tell me that I can disable the safety on my 1911 while presenting the weapon, with no additional delay.
LOL This is America do as you please. Applegate knew that under stress of a gunfight that you might not undo the safety. That has proved true in Force on Force training. But I guess some our so proficent with guns that what people like Applegate or Matt might say would be meaningless
 

Sonora Rebel

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I can't find anything that historically relates to Mr. Applegate ever having been in actual combat... knife or gunfight.... or killed anybody in either. Anybody who'd carry a 1911 in Condition 0 or suggest the same is nuts. I don't care how many books he wrote.
 

lostone1413

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
I can't find anything that historically relates to Mr. Applegate ever having been in actual combat... knife or gunfight.... or killed anybody in either. Anybody who'd carry a 1911 in Condition 0 or suggest the same is nuts. I don't care how many books he wrote.

Applegate was trained by fairbairn. Fairbairn and Sykes got their education as far as gunfighting while in Shanghai. Applegate went on to train men with the OSS in WW2.

you see a difference in having a 1911 in condition O and a Glock? I sure don't. Have you ever done any force on force training or has training been limited to some form of target shooting? How a person looks at things depends on ghow he has trained
 

Sonora Rebel

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lostone1413 wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I can't find anything that historically relates to Mr. Applegate ever having been in actual combat... knife or gunfight.... or killed anybody in either. Anybody who'd carry a 1911 in Condition 0 or suggest the same is nuts. I don't care how many books he wrote.

Applegate was trained by fairbairn. Fairbairn and Sykes got their education as far as gunfighting while in Shanghai. Applegate went on to train men with the OSS in WW2.

you see a difference in having a 1911 in condition O and a Glock? I sure don't. Have you ever done any force on force training or has training been limited to some form of target shooting? How a person looks at things depends on ghow he has trained
No... I've been in 2 wars 'n numerous firefights... two police gunfights, three county fairs 'n a buzzard hump. Do you OWN/CARRY a 1911A1? 'Don't sound like it.
 

Crossfire Jedi

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Couple questions..first I love my Glock and plan on getting a RIA 1911 soon...nice handgun...so don't abuse me :Das I am neutral ground here.

1. What is condition 0, 1 etc...I have never heard of those terms?

2. What is the point of this specific discussion? Both are nice handguns, 1911 looks better to me but the 1911 ammo costs much more. Then again even 9mm is expensive...if you can find any.

3. Do you believe a manual safety is key in purchasing your firearm?

4. Do you believe you should always have a bullet in the chamber? I have always thought it would take me milliseconds to slide my rail and load my Glock thus no reason to have one chambered and improving safety.

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