Spilt the State?

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You're entirely right, exactly HOW can we have a discussion AFTER the government strips our rights from us?

We need to be focused on a much broader target (so to speak), although gun rights and open carry are very important to our liberty as a nation, we are letting the bigger fish get away. Splitting the State would not help in this matter, rather it would create a diversion during the split which would ultimately see us losing more rights than those we "gain". Also, if the state gets split, the eastern side would have to raise their own taxes to keep itself afloat, otherwise they would have to rely heavily on the Federal government to keep things running, and that particular entity, once in place, will act like a loan shark until well after they are repayed.

Short answer, NO.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

sv_libertarian wrote:

And this is on topic how?

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I guess we're on the "Not splitting the State" side with our explanations on what needs to happen to begin to roll back progressive dilution of the Constitution and our rights right along with it.

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Huh? I never said that, but I suppose that is all your rabid ultra right wing brain could come up with, as of course anybody who doesn't jump in and start screaming "split the state" is against you.

" [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]NOTE: This is not a general discussion web site - even the thread for "general discussions" must be fairly related to open carry,firearms and gun rights. Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focussed. If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it. Thanks!"


http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

Also from the same post, the same rules for the site...

"[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] 2) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry,firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate substantially to one of these topics, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom andliberty. OCDO is not a general discussion forum on polticis, religion, the current President, etc. Take that somewhere else!"

This one reeks of politics, not OC. Although I'm surprised you haven't started planning the Eastern Washington Milisha too....

In fact I think the notion of splitting the state is friggin' stupid. If you can muster up the effort to legally do that, you can do anything you want in government. But instead you piss and moan, feel helpless and enraged and are unable to do anything about it, so you piss and moan some more and pull a liberal like stunt. "I don't like you. So I'm leaving."
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Gee you're just a little hot under the collar eh? I never said I was for splitting the state... in fact, I said I was not for splitting the state. I also said it was important for us to fightto STOPthe "progressive dilution of the Constitution and our rights right along with it". Gee, I suppose I should have said gun rights. I think the first 10 Amendments of the Bill of Rights need to be protected as a whole. We need to stop allowing the other side to pick each right apart separately as they've proved that by doing that, they can begin infringing on each one separately and gain more ground by doing so.

Splitting the State is stupid and I never called for it. But I must say that I understand those who desire to split away from the rabid liberals as it is hard having to argue facts with people who lie constantly.

I do more than piss and moan. I exercise my rights. All of them. I carry guns, I own guns, I speak in public at times, and I write here and other places including my local newspaper. I am in monthly contact with my State and Federal representatives telling them of my displeasure of certain bills and asking them to support some and not support others. I've had signature drives to petition our local representatives on issues like illegal immigration and gun laws and the only people who've called me a whiner have been liberals who disagree with me.

And for the last time, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Every gun owner who is true to the Constitution is a member of the unorganized militia. If the shit hits the fan and you run into the woods and hide with your guns and your food... you are a coward and a traitor to the Constitution. Is that your plan?

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Lots of ideas have been around since the 1880's.

What Nickels is doing is directly related to open carry and gun rights, that is a no brainer. Digging up crazy secessionist ideas that haven't gotten anywhere since this state was formed are not on topic, also a no brainer.

And I say again, IF YOU HAVE THE POLITICAL POWER TO SPLIT THE STATE, YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE ANYTHING YOU WANT IN THIS STATE. But it's probably cooler to play aggrieved suffering son of liberty and demand a division of the state in order to "preserve our liberties" than actually do something productive.

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Is the above "on-topic?"

And to the last statement, did you really think the state would split thru some political trading or haggling? Wow! And I called my earlier post dreaming! :lol:

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You know, I really like living here in WA. I think what we should do is kick out all the liberals and send them to their own special state to screw up however they wish. I mean, we do havethe guns...

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They HAD their own state, it's called Kalifornia, now even they got tired of it and came here to screw with our nice place to live.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

And for the last time, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Every gun owner who is true to the Constitution is a member of the unorganized militia. If the @#$% hits the fan and you run into the woods and hide with your guns and your food... you are a coward and a traitor to the Constitution. Is that your plan?

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At least you are finally figuring out the difference between organized and unorganized militia...

And your fascism is showing. If SHTF I'm not going to make any effort to hook up with people like you. If that means falling back to my Alaskan property then so be it. My plans, my circle of friends, and their plans for SHTF are none of your business, but it certainly doesn't involve people on the fringe such as yourself.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

And for the last time, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Every gun owner who is true to the Constitution is a member of the unorganized militia. If the @#$% hits the fan and you run into the woods and hide with your guns and your food... you are a coward and a traitor to the Constitution. Is that your plan?

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At least you are finally figuring out the difference between organized and unorganized militia...

And your fascism is showing. If SHTF I'm not going to make any effort to hook up with people like you. If that means falling back to my Alaskan property then so be it. My plans, my circle of friends, and their plans for SHTF are none of your business, but it certainly doesn't involve people on the fringe such as yourself.

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Do you understand the definition of Fascism? It isn't the common "Nazi" definition that is bandied about and it certainly isn't a right of center ideology. Fascists are statists. Fascists let private ownership remain, but control the markets and currency with an iron fist. Think Mussolini rather than Hitler and you'll maybe begin to understand. Whenever people break out the Fascist moniker, it is usually just being used as an ad hominem attack to silence, shame or somehow delegitimize their opponent. It won't work.

So if the SHTF, you're going tribal... fine, that's what I figured you'd do. Only true patriots would stand up for those who cannot or will not stand up for the Constitution. The others are the enemy, e.g. those who would stand up in opposition to the Constitution.

We may not agree on much, and you may have some serious hang-ups when it comes to normal conversation that does not automatically agree with you, but that is just one of the things that comes with freedom of speech.

As for who you'll seek out when the SHTF... well, that's also an honored and protected right in the Constitution that I would never begrudge anyone. Freedom of association is a natural right we are all born with and it is protected by our Constitution... although they're getting pretty damn close to trampling on that one as well.

So go off and stew in your anger and keep on claiming I'm a 'nut case' if it makes you feel superior... each to their own I guess. We're just talking here and you're getting your underoos in a bunch.... just ignore the thread and it'll go away.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

So if the SHTF, you're going tribal... fine, that's what I figured you'd do. Only true patriots would stand up for those who cannot or will not stand up for the Constitution. The others are the enemy, e.g. those who would stand up in opposition to the Constitution.

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And right there is my biggest problem with you, or others of your type. The assumption that you, and only you have the correct solution to dealing with whatever imagined crisis might come, and those who don't or won't support you are cowards and not true Americans/Patriots/Buzzword of The Week.

Taking this hypothetical SHTF situation, you seem to see you and your friends rushing into the fray in order to "defend the constitution." Meanwhile we'll assume a more or less total breakdown of society. That's the popular and romantic ideal right? A breakdown of civil order and/or civil war? So given this situation you are being the noble patriot minuteman, and I'm being the selfish tribalist. Got it. Further glory to you, and none to those who will not adhere to you. Meanwhile, you sigh, shake your head, acknowledge the weakness of those who will not stand with you, and continue to fight the good fight? Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points please. Now you are the mighty warrior fighting for those who will not fight.

It nearly seems as if you are looking forward to a true SHTF situation, complete with breakdown of civil order...

I'm more inclined to see SHTF as something like Katrina. Localized failures on a wide scale in a given geographical area. I'm simply getting out of dodge with my friends and family if that's what it takes to survive. I live on a boat for crying out loud. My "neighborhood" is mobile. Why stick around for the rioting, looting, and loss of services? I'll go somewhere else and take my friends with me until the worst is over.

IF, and this is a big, huge, honking IF there is a total national disruption of civil order, or a civil war, or revolution, I'll be working to hold my own, and that includes taking whatever steps are needed in order to ensure that. Make of that what you will. I've got a pretty good idea how you will spin that.

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SV... You're putting a lot of 'what ifs' into my words along with things I've never said. You know what they say about people who assume. No good can come from the SHTF scenario.... and when I talk about standing up for the Constitution, I don't mean having some fantasy armed insurrection. Never said it, wouldn't wish it.

But it isn't wrong to want to be prepared, and to want to know who you can trust and who would kill you just as soon as look at you. I've neverdemandedanything of anyone, but rather just posited questions and held discussions over issues I have felt merited a conversation.

You on the other hand think you are this know-it-all who must tell everyone else how to think, and if they don't agree with you, they're just a bunch of freaks or nutters. Riiiiiiight. Put the Sterno down and quit sniffin glue because they're both rotting your brain.:quirky

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Splitting the state would just add to the problem. Two party politics working together as a progressive keeps the people divided and oblivious to the big picture that both party's are on a sliding scale to federalism. We need independents that support the constitution and will start sliding the power scale back to the side of the people.:banghead:

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Sea_Chicken wrote:

Splitting the state would just add to the problem. Two party politics working together as a progressive keeps the people divided and oblivious to the big picture that both party's are on a sliding scale to federalism. We need independents that support the constitution and will start sliding the power scale back to the side of the people.:banghead:

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The problem is that everyone getting into politics these days wants power and desires to "reshape" the country into a "Christian Nation" or a "Socialist Nation" and both sides have around 20 to 50 million people who vote for them without a second thought. People like my mother have bought into the us vs them mentality and so she votes for who she thinks is the good guys. She also had BDS and thought that Bush in fact did = Hitler. I never thought Bush = Hitler. I just thought that Bush was a 'Teddy Roosevelt' style Progressive, and I now know that Obama is not another FDR, but another Woodrow Wilson. We'll see him begin to criminalize any opposing viewpoints with a smile on his face.

We need more politicians like Ron Paul, but I'm starting to believe he's an anomaly.

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I think another way to fix this is to abolish the "party" system altogether, most people nowadays just vote for their favorite party and never even bother finding out what the candidate actually stands for (if anything at all).

So, without the backing of the "good old boy's club", they would have to get grassroots campaigns together and convince people in person why their vote should go to that candidate (last seen in the Ron Paul case...).

Personally, it makes me ill that the issues get clouded by the same old B.S. every election, i.e. partial-birth abortion (big numbers of that happening...), Gay marriage (who REALLY cares? let them get married and have the same problems as everyone else has when they want to split up...). And the economy. Puh-leeeeeeze! these guys think that spending more money will make things better for the people who pay into the tax system? think again, no modern country has ever taxed itself into prosperity.

Then comes gun control. The antis have their agenda and we (and others) have ours. Problem is; we have a right to bear arms and the 2nd Amendment was very clearly worded to maintain that right (not give the right, maintain it). The antis are exactly what the social experiment was intended for; a completely defenseless populous that depends on the government for everthing, and a government running out of control with spending and taxing its Citizens.

Thomas Jefferson would have been sick if he ever saw the nation he helped create turn into what it is now.

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bugly wrote:

Thomas Jefferson would have been sick if he ever saw the nation he helped create turn into what it is now.

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So true. If Thomas Jefferson was alive today, Janet Napolitano and the Department of Homeland Security would be labeling him a 'Right Wing Extremist' and possible terrorist threat.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

bugly wrote:

Thomas Jefferson would have been sick if he ever saw the nation he helped create turn into what it is now.

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So true. If Thomas Jefferson was alive today, Janet Napolitano and the Department of Homeland Security would be labeling him a 'Right Wing Extremist' and possible terrorist threat.

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Indeed, sir, a more true statement I can't come up with.