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Thread: Need help reguarding OC and CC

  1. #1
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    When I am OC'ing or CC'ing. If a LEO ask me to hand over / relinquish my handgun to the LEO, for what ever reason he/she gives me. Do I have to comply with the order?

    I've never been asked to do so, I just want to per pair myself for the situation if it ever arises. There are a lot of smart people on this forum. I'm sure someone can point me in the right direction, or provide me with some useful information or links.

    Sorry if this question has been asked a thousand times, and thanks for your time and responses.



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    Yeah, that'd be a good idea to comply regardless of the legality.

    I'm not a fan of unlawful search/seizure, but if someone with a gun and perceived authority wants my gun...I'm giving it to them. Sort things out later through the proper legal avenues.

    My completely non-legal opinion.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    This has been discussed many times.

    The consensus is not to physically resist but state that you don't consent to any searches/seizures.


    Follow up with FOIA request, filea complaint/legal actionif warranted after your FOIA request has been taken care of.

    [line]
    ETA:
    How to file FOIA.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/17515.html

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    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    If you read enough of these forums, you will find a variety of answers ranging from "F NO!", to "I'm going to give my gun to any LEO who asks for it."

    I'll give you my thoughts, and remember IANAL. At no time will I even consent to any search or seizure of my person or property. That doesn't mean that my property won't be taken, but there is no law requiringme to agree to it.

    I would also never handle my gun to hand it over. I won't resist, or prevent it's removal from my person by a LEO, but I will not put my hands on it.

    Also, in the case of CC, I would never admit to even having a gun. There is no need to answer that question at all.

    Again, this is my opinion. Some will tell you that you shouldgive a DNA sample to a LEO if he asks for it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Do NOT give your sidearm to an LEO. Make them remove it while you continue to voice your disapproval of this action on their part - hopefully with a voice recorder picking it all up. But to not remove your piece and hand it over. Suppose the officer has called for backup, or another LEO happens upon the two of you while you are reaching for your gun and removing it. He may not be aware that you have been asked to turn it over. Could make for an embarassing moment for all.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  6. #6
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Also from the non-lawyer, limited knowledge of local laws...

    While I was in the Coast Guard, the first thing we asked someone when boarding their boats was "Sir (or Ma'am), Without reaching for or touching them, Do you have any weapons on board?" When they answered in the affirmative, we would ask about type and location. We would then send a boarding team member to make the weapon safe (unload the weapon and put the ammunition somewhere else in the boat away from the weapon). We would assure the boat owner that it was not illegal for them to have the weapons aboard, but we needed to secure them for OfficerSafety. In 22 years, I never had a problem with a boater unless theyhad an outstanding warrantor BG's with a record. Law-abiding boaters didn't have a problem with our methods. When leaving the vessel, we would tell the master of the vessel where he could find the weapon(s) and ammunition.

    In the case of a landlubber police officer ignorant about the law, I would go with discretionbeing the better part of valor. Ask politely ifitis department policy to voilate the Second Amendment Rights of citizens and ask if thereis a supervisor available. Chances are, his sphincter is already tight enough to make a diamond from a lump of coal and he has called for backup because of the situation.

    I seriously doubt a young inexperienced officer is going to make the call on his own. Hopefully, you have a digital voice recorder (as everyone has suggested I purchase ASAP) and have recorded the conversation. In this situation, you're most likely already staring down the muzzle of a .38 or 9mm that looks like the mouth of the CBBT from where you stand.

    I would comply with task direction and ask questions later.

    When a hardened criminal was aprehended by the Coast Guard and turned over to the FBI, he was asked why he didn't try to shoot it out with the Coast Guard boarding team. His response was chilling: "I was afraid of getting shot. These Coasties are all very young. I know how a veteran cop or fed is going to react to catching me. I'm afraid of getting killed by one of these kids that isn't even old enough to buy a pistol and has a fraction of the training the rest of the law enforcement community has!"

    I was an 18 year old "kid" at the time. I was authorized to carry a fully automatic
    M-16, a 12 gauge riot shotgun and the .45 ACP pistol. I always wondered why people were so polite when we came aboard their boats... :shock:
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

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    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Also from the non-lawyer, limited knowledge of local laws...

    While I was in the Coast Guard, the first thing we asked someone when boarding their boats was "Sir (or Ma'am), Without reaching for or touching them, Do you have any weapons on board?" When they answered in the affirmative, we would ask about type and location. We would then send a boarding team member to make the weapon safe (unload the weapon and put the ammunition somewhere else in the boat away from the weapon). We would assure the boat owner that it was not illegal for them to have the weapons aboard, but we needed to secure them for OfficerSafety. In 22 years, I never had a problem with a boater unless theyhad an outstanding warrantor BG's with a record. Law-abiding boaters didn't have a problem with our methods. When leaving the vessel, we would tell the master of the vessel where he could find the weapon(s) and ammunition.

    In the case of a landlubber police officer ignorant about the law, I would go with discretionbeing the better part of valor. Ask politely ifitis department policy to voilate the Second Amendment Rights of citizens and ask if thereis a supervisor available. Chances are, his sphincter is already tight enough to make a diamond from a lump of coal and he has called for backup because of the situation.

    I seriously doubt a young inexperienced officer is going to make the call on his own. Hopefully, you have a digital voice recorder (as everyone has suggested I purchase ASAP) and have recorded the conversation. In this situation, you're most likely already staring down the muzzle of a .38 or 9mm that looks like the mouth of the CBBT from where you stand.

    I would comply with task direction and ask questions later.

    When a hardened criminal was aprehended by the Coast Guard and turned over to the FBI, he was asked why he didn't try to shoot it out with the Coast Guard boarding team. His response was chilling: "I was afraid of getting shot. These Coasties are all very young. I know how a veteran cop or fed is going to react to catching me. I'm afraid of getting killed by one of these kids that isn't even old enough to buy a pistol and has a fraction of the training the rest of the law enforcement community has!"

    I was an 18 year old "kid" at the time. I was authorized to carry a fully automatic
    M-16, a 12 gauge riot shotgun and the .45 ACP pistol. I always wondered why people were so polite when we came aboard their boats... :shock:
    OFF-TOPIC (ignore if you're bothered by that): I've been not polite while being boarded by a SAFE boat with a BIIIIG gun mounted up front. Your guns don't scare me :P. I get annoyed as hell every time I'm boarded. Out at the light tower it's like VMPD get their kicks by screwing up my fishing. At the CBBT I've never had to deal with it, but out in the bay in sight of the CBBT I've been run up on like they had reports of cocaine, illegals and gun running, all on my 24' boat...

    I just don't understand the rationale: I register my boat, pay for the fishing license, run it in a safe manner with all decals fully displayed in their proper legal position and all the safety gear (and some above and beyond what is required). On land I do the same thing in a car and I don't get pulled over, nor CAN I get pulled over w/out breaking some sort of law. On the water following the law gets you nothing...doesn't make sense...hence I'm not a happy camper when I have to "pull over" while you come alongside and get on my white boat with your black boots on...

    That's all. Thanks for your service (other than boarding MY boat)

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    Thanks for the responses, it's a lot clearer to me now. Just one more question. I just got a Digital Voice Recorder. How good are they for picking up conversations if I have it in my front pants pocket, if I'm not wearing a shirt with a front pocket?

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Argus Eyed wrote:
    Thanks for the responses, it's a lot clearer to me now. Just one more question. I just got a Digital Voice Recorder. How good are they for picking up conversations if I have it in my front pants pocket, if I'm not wearing a shirt with a front pocket?
    They do fairly well. You will notice that they rub your pants and make a noise when you move, but overall my recorder picks up conversations that I can make out when I play them back on my computer.

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    Argus Eyed wrote:
    Thanks for the responses, it's a lot clearer to me now. Just one more question. I just got a Digital Voice Recorder. How good are they for picking up conversations if I have it in my front pants pocket, if I'm not wearing a shirt with a front pocket?
    Could always wear it on a lanyard around your neck, but under your shirt. Probably wearing a thinner shirt than you are pants.

  11. #11
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I may buy a mic for mine that I can run up to my collar. We'll see I haven't decided yet. If I need better quality recording I may get a clip on mic.

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    don't consent - but don't resist.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    don't consent - but don't resist
    Definitely do not consent. I would resist any officer handling my sidearm unless I am to be charged with a crime and arrested, otherwise they have no legal standing to even request your weapon.

    You can resist verbally and still be coerced physically into handing over your gun. In that case make sure you get the officer's name and badge number and file a complaint.

    Any officer who, outside of a criminal investigation of your person requests your weapon, is doing so beyond of the confines of the law.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    I would resist any officer handling my sidearm...
    I'm curious, what form would your resistance take?

    wylde007 wrote:
    You can resist verbally...
    I think we have a difference in definition of terms here. My understanding of common usage of the term "resist" is physical, not verbal. It seems to me that the phrase "denying consent" is more appropriate to your meaning.

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it's important that we all understand what we're saying to each other. If we use the same words to mean different things, we can get very confused in our conversation.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    don't consent - but don't resist.
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    I may buy a mic for mine that I can run up to my collar. We'll see I haven't decided yet. If I need better quality recording I may get a clip on mic.
    A mic to run under my shirt sounds like a good idea. I'll have to check into that!

    The recorder I got today is a Sony ICD-PX720.

  17. #17
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Argus Eyed wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    I may buy a mic for mine that I can run up to my collar. We'll see I haven't decided yet. If I need better quality recording I may get a clip on mic.
    A mic to run under my shirt sounds like a good idea. I'll have to check into that!

    The recorder I got today is a Sony ICD-PX720.
    That is the one that I have

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Argus Eyed wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    I may buy a mic for mine that I can run up to my collar. We'll see I haven't decided yet. If I need better quality recording I may get a clip on mic.
    A mic to run under my shirt sounds like a good idea. I'll have to check into that!

    The recorder I got today is a Sony ICD-PX720.
    I hang it on one of my italian chanis under my shirt
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  19. #19
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    It seems to me that the phrase "denying consent" is more appropriate to your meaning.
    I could follow that line of thinking.

    At that point you may be in handcuffs singing "I do not consent to this search. I do not consent to this search."

    And then they'll search and confiscate anyway, like the good little jackboots that they are. Not all of them, just some. So far I've met more of the good ones than the bad since I've started carrying open.

    I both fear and welcome the day when I meet one who either has a chip on his shoulder or doesn't know the law and decides to make an "example" out of me.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    I both fear and welcome the day when I meet one who either has a chip on his shoulder or doesn't know the law and decides to make an "example" out of me.
    I would think this would be more likely if you not only refuse consent, but resist confiscation, whether or not there are any shoulder chips.

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