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Thread: Westwood Mall Jackson

  1. #1
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    Got locked out of my office today(not my fault this time)

    So I went to the Westwood mall.

    Shopped around talked to a lot of people, got a few looks but overall good. Then I see the security looing at me from quite a distance, he looked a little worried. Now as usaual, I am in a suit minus the coat.

    I go into the gap and see a blackman township cop talking to the security guy. I then go into the gap to check out some cloths.

    I am having a friendly conversation with one of the girls there, when the cop comes in and motions with his finger to go see him,

    Cop asks for ID

    Me: "I don't believe i have to give you ID for lawful open carry sir"

    Cop: It is posted at all the entrances that you can not carry a fire arm here, so lets see some ID"

    me: "I would like to see the signs"

    Cop: "Alright"

    I caved, damnit... I know, should have just said i'm not even required to carry ID with me... I'll remember next time to leave it in my car.

    So I handed him my military ID, he then asked if I had a drivers licence, I fished around my pocket for it... didn't want to pull the CPL... and I gave it to him.

    we then walked out of the store together(still had the gun) but he has me walk in front of him.

    we go to the security guy who looke dlike he felt really bad... I don't know if he realized i wasn't criminal when I wasn't in cuffs, or what the deal was. but the cop told him I wanted to see the sign so we went to the entrance I came in at and took a look at it.

    it is a shet of paper framed on the wall next to the door unless you are looking for it you wouldn't see it, and at the bottom in I wold say about 10-12 pt font
    "no firearms or illegal weappons"
    I turned to the security guy and said
    "sorry about that bro, never seen that before, I don't think I ever would have noticed it comming in here 1000 times"

    again he looked at me and said: "no big deal" i didn't even know what to say after that.

    the cop then escorted me to his car, and had me stand in fron of it while he checked to see if i was "legit to carry a gun."

    While we were on the way to his car, he said
    "you know you can be charged with a crime right"
    me: "Yeah tresspassing"
    then I think that is when he got flusterated with me
    Cop: "no, I oculd charge you with a weappons charge, carrying in a no carry zone"
    Me: "this is privte property posted no guns, it is tresspassing"
    Cop: if it is posted MI lays says you can't carry so it is a weappons charge"
    Cop: (under his breath) I love it when people try to tell me how to do my job"

    When it is all done and said, he tells me: "you have the right to carry your firearm, consealed or out in the open, but it is not the stores responsibility to post signs where ppl will see them."

    I wasn't going to get into it with him, I kept my mouth shut.

    He asked me if I was going home, I said "no, i'm going to Walmart, would you like to secorte me through the mall to the other side?"

    Cop: "no your fine"

    as I walked in the security guy was tlaking with hi boss, either about posting signs where ppl could see them, or getting rid of them, not sure... but they know that what they have is a problem. I told them to cal me and we could perhaps see what we could work out because thi is getting bigger, and we will carry, and we need to know where not to go.

    I know I messed up... next time, i own't have ID on me!

    then I can't give it to them.... and I raelly need an audio recorder.

    I am so threatening!!!
    [img]file:///C:/Users/Home/AppData/Local/Temp/DSC_1277a.JPG[/img]


  2. #2
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.

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    Are the signs on every entrance of the mall. I have been going there all my life and never seen a sign.

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    What's threatning in that photo is the leapard print curtain behind you! :shock:

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Kimberguy wrote:
    I know I messed up... next time, i own't have ID on me!
    Kimberguy, in all honesty I think the major mess up was making the statements about what crime you might be guilty of in response to the officer asking. Officers are not making small talk when they ask questions, they are fishing for admissions of guilt or incriminating statements whichwillgenerate PC for either them tomake an arrest or aprosecutor to press charges.

    Folks, if you are going to talk to an officer beyond "am I being detained? . . . am I free to go?" keep your part of the conversation to simple, short statements reinforcing the fact that you are lawfully carrying. Never EVER even speculate with an officer that what you are doing is in any way unlawful.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Threatening or hot!?

    Hmm, didn't notice it in the Lansing pic of you, in this pic I see some Filipino characteristics Kimberguy.

    I came this close to marrying mastisa.

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    DanM wrote:
    Kimberguy, in all honesty I think the major mess up was making the statements about what crime you might be guilty of in response to the officer asking.
    That's what I thought too when I read the story. Didn't we just have this discussion last night?

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    T Vance wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    Kimberguy, in all honesty I think the major mess up was making the statements about what crime you might be guilty of in response to the officer asking.
    That's what I thought too when I read the story. Didn't we just have this discussion last night?
    yes, i know and I agree... and yes we did talk about it last night....

    Threatening or hot!? Hmm, didn't notice it in the Lansing pic of you, in this pic I see some Filipino characteristics Kimberguy. I came this close to marrying mastisa.
    Just a fat mexican.

    Are the signs on every entrance of the mall
    Yes, go look and tell me if you can find them... and woud a reasonable person be able to find them?



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    Don't feel bad! Today was the first day I OC'ed since my "incident" the other day (other than at the Gun Club last night). I felt so nervous!!! Thanks officers!

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    Are the signs on every entrance of the mall
    Yes, go look and tell me if you can find them... and woud a reasonable person be able to find them?

    I'll go and look this weekend.

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    T Vance wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    Are the signs on every entrance of the mall
    Yes, go look and tell me if you can find them... and woud a reasonable person be able to find them?

    I'll go and look this weekend.
    just remember that it isn't the stores responsibility to post it where you can easily see it.

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    So if they hang it in the managers office that's good enough? How about at their corporate office out of state? Can they hang it there? WTF???!!!

  13. #13
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    So if they hang it in the managers office that's good enough? How about at their corporate office out of state? Can they hang it there? WTF???!!!
    We don't have to like it. We all think that it should be different, but legally it's true. The burden of responsibility is on us.

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    DanM wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    I know I messed up... next time, i own't have ID on me!
    Kimberguy, in all honesty I think the major mess up was making the statements about what crime you might be guilty of in response to the officer asking. Officers are not making small talk when they ask questions, they are fishing for admissions of guilt or incriminating statements whichwillgenerate PC for either them tomake an arrest or aprosecutor to press charges.

    Folks, if you are going to talk to an officer beyond "am I being detained? . . . am I free to go?" keep your part of the conversation to simple, short statements reinforcing the fact that you are lawfully carrying. Never EVER even speculate with an officer that what you are doing is in any way unlawful.
    Not only that, but I seriously doubt trespassing would stick. All they have to do is ask you to leave, and you leave. It's too easy to not see such signs to be held legally accountable to them.

    Just the same, You might write the owners of that mall and ask that they put up more visible signs so there is no more confusion.

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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.
    goto walmart. i think it was roughly $20 - 30. silver and black looking unit. works great. used recently... but not for carry. instead my roofer f'ed up my house and i made sure to record him admitting that it was his fault and again when he finished the roof and after i paid him, where he states that services were paid in full. great quality even though it was in my pants pocket and we walked around the house.

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    ghostrider wrote:
    Just the same, You might write the owners of that mall and ask that they put up more visible signs so there is no more confusion.
    Actually this would be a good time to write the mall owners and re-notify them of the lost revenue at all the malls they own due to this policy. Now may be the best time for this as they just filed for bankruptcy. May also be a good time to make mention in a public fashion linking the bankruptcy due to lack of income and the do-not-shop list


    As a side note at least we learned that Westwood isn't as dumb with their rules as the Crossing as they didn't have an issue with you carrying on their property (walmart) just not in the mall.

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    maahes wrote:
    Actually this would be a good time to write the mall owners and re-notify them of the lost revenue at all the malls they own due to this policy. Now may be the best time for this as they just filed for bankruptcy. May also be a good time to make mention in a public fashion linking the bankruptcy due to lack of income and the do-not-shop list

    Perfect time to hang our money over their heads. I still live and work in Ann Arbor so I am perfectly content spending my money out there at places that won't give me s^&t for OCing.


    maahes wrote:
    As a side note at least we learned that Westwood isn't as dumb with their rules as the Crossing as they didn't have an issue with you carrying on their property (walmart) just not in the mall.

    From what Kimberguy said last night, the Crossing does not have signs posted saying they don't allow firearms in the building on the mall entrances. As far as the Westwood Mall, I was wondering about the Walmart part too since it is on their property. How about Finley's?


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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.
    Here you go.

    http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dig...&_osacat=0

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    After writing letters and talking to people politely fails, I think it is a matter of courtesy to stop pressing the issue with anti carry stores. For every place that doesn't want us, there are probably 1 or 2 more stores nearby that would like our business. Pushing the issue with people that don't want us there could easily be seen by some as rude.

    About ID's and the police, I had that lesson driven home pretty recently, and I agree. Leaving your ID in your house or car is the way to go when legal. But it's not really possible at most stores, because to carry in most stores means you have to have a CPL because they sell booze, which means you have to show ID and CPL when asked.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  20. #20
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.
    Here you go.

    http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dig...&_osacat=0
    Thanks Vance, been there done that. I've just ready far too many reviews, via Amazon and Cnet, on most of these. The biggest issue seems to be price/pc compatibility. I found a decent looking RCA unit, but apparently it saves audio files in a .voc format and almost nobody has been able to change them to mp3 or .wav. I am no tekkie so I'm looking for something simple. Another olympus unit I read up on would corrupt every file that was over an hour long, so that it could not be transferred, and was essentially lost These problems seem to go away once you look as spending some serious money, which I'm not quite sure I'm ready to do yet. Mini tapes may be the way for me :P

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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.
    Here you go.

    http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dig...&_osacat=0
    Thanks Vance, been there done that. I've just ready far too many reviews, via Amazon and Cnet, on most of these. The biggest issue seems to be price/pc compatibility. I found a decent looking RCA unit, but apparently it saves audio files in a .voc format and almost nobody has been able to change them to mp3 or .wav. I am no tekkie so I'm looking for something simple. Another olympus unit I read up on would corrupt every file that was over an hour long, so that it could not be transferred, and was essentially lost These problems seem to go away once you look as spending some serious money, which I'm not quite sure I'm ready to do yet. Mini tapes may be the way for me :P
    Start a new thread for this.

    I'm interested in hearing about the corrupted files, and where you got that info. I have an Olympus I got at Sam's Club, and would like to know more, but this is the wrong thread for it.

  22. #22
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    Recording options. I have an older Motorola cell phone. I no longer use it but it does have voice record on it. Look for one of these Razar 3 ( I think or newer) Other phone may also have audio recording. My upgrade has audio and video recording.

    The Razar 3 records even it you don't have cell services on it also you can still call 911 free with no cell service. Look around you may find one free. Look at you current phone it may already have audio record.

    Second Idea is a small digital cameras. I have Sony Cyber-shot It have video with audio and does a very nice job.

    Third my Sony digital voice recorder converts it's files to mp-3 upon saving to the Computer.

    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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  23. #23
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    ghostrider wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    If Kimberguy succumbs to the pressure, what hope is there for the rest of us!!!???

    Seriously though, getting ready to start a new thread on digital audio recorders. I've been looking for one myself and trying to find one that will suit my(our) needs that is relatively affordable.
    Here you go.

    http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dig...&_osacat=0
    Thanks Vance, been there done that. I've just ready far too many reviews, via Amazon and Cnet, on most of these. The biggest issue seems to be price/pc compatibility. I found a decent looking RCA unit, but apparently it saves audio files in a .voc format and almost nobody has been able to change them to mp3 or .wav. I am no tekkie so I'm looking for something simple. Another olympus unit I read up on would corrupt every file that was over an hour long, so that it could not be transferred, and was essentially lost These problems seem to go away once you look as spending some serious money, which I'm not quite sure I'm ready to do yet. Mini tapes may be the way for me :P
    Start a new thread for this.

    I'm interested in hearing about the corrupted files, and where you got that info. I have an Olympus I got at Sam's Club, and would like to know more, but this is the wrong thread for it.
    Blargh!

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    NavyLT wrote:
    I would highly suggest you watch:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    very closely. In your encounter with the police you gave up many rights that you have. The biggest right you gave up was stating what you thought you were guilty of. GREAT BIG NO NO. Never speculate what you are guilty of.
    that was long, but extremely full of good information.

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