Obama's paranoid socialists do not believe in an armed citizentry .

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Rather odd, isn't it, that the most openly socialist State in the Union, Vermont, has some of the most liberal carry laws in the world. Carry your weapon how you like, when you like, where you like. THAT is the kind of liberalism we need MORE of. The only kind.

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Alexcabbie wrote:

Rather odd, isn't it, that the most openly socialist State in the Union, Vermont, has some of the most liberal carry laws in the world. Carry your weapon how you like, when you like, where you like. THAT is the kind of liberalism we need MORE of. The only kind.

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Almost like socialist NAZI snow zombies . lol

How can one be prolife and antizombie ?

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AWDstylez wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Socialism works great, until you run out of money from the producer class.  Then government has to force people to labor, doing jobs they don't want to do.

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You have the confused with capitalism.  Unchecked capitalism moves wealth upward and eventually destroys itself because there's no money left in the middle/lower classes to create demand.

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That may be "capitalism", but it is not a free market. Conversely, it may be a "free market", but it is not capitalism.

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AWDstylez wrote:

You know damn well the government isn't getting any smaller anytime soon (if ever)

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Actually, I know nothing of the kind. Our government has grown way beyond any "economy of scale". In fact, it is top-heavy, bleeding money from top to bottom, and in some ways on the verge of outright implosion.

If we won't shrink our government, it will collapse sooner rather than later. What size do you suppose it will be then?

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marshaul wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Socialism works great, until you run out of money from the producer class. Then government has to force people to labor, doing jobs they don't want to do.

Click to expand...

You have the confused with capitalism. Unchecked capitalism moveswealth upward and eventually destroys itself because there's no money left in the middle/lower classes to create demand.

Click to expand...

That may be "capitalism", but it is not a free market. Conversely, it may be a "free market", but it is not capitalism.

Click to expand...

You need to do a little more research into economics. Capitalism, a.k.a. a free market, moves wealth upward, end of story.

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marshaul wrote:

If we won't shrink our government, it will collapse sooner rather than later. What size do you suppose it will be then?

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I suppose it won't matter.

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Here's a translation of the Declaration of Independence into "American English":

http://www.io.com/gibbonsb/mencken/declaration.html

Maybe a rereading might help put the whole situation with the government into perspective.

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AWDstylez wrote:

marshaul wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Socialism works great, until you run out of money from the producer class.  Then government has to force people to labor, doing jobs they don't want to do.

Click to expand...

You have the confused with capitalism.  Unchecked capitalism moves wealth upward and eventually destroys itself because there's no money left in the middle/lower classes to create demand.

Click to expand...

That may be "capitalism", but it is not a free market. Conversely, it may be a "free market", but it is not capitalism.

Click to expand...

 

You need to do a little more research into economics.  Capitalism, a.k.a. a free market, moves wealth upward, end of story.

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Yes, according to anti-capitalists. There are other theories of economics. :what:

Theories which account for your concerns yet reject your assumptions about what a free market is or what one must inevitably do.

I would ask for a citation, but you'd have no harder a time coming up with them than I'd have refuting them.

Suffice it to say, I think you should research economics beyond the class you took while you were still in college.

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marshaul wrote:

Yes, according to anti-capitalists. There are other theories of economics. :what:

Theories which account for your concerns yet reject your assumptions about what a free market is or what one must inevitably do.

I would ask for a citation, but you'd have no harder a time coming up with them than I'd have refuting them.

Suffice it to say, I think you should research economics beyond the class you took while you were still in college.

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The problem is they're all theories and not one exists in it's pure form in the real world. That's why it's not even worth debating.

My original comment stands though. People cry socialism and redistribution of wealth, yet I don't see anyone volunteering to pay more taxes. When you get a grasp of how the American tax system REALLY works, it sobers you up fast, especially when you're in the sub-$150k/year catagory. Everyone wants to point to crackheads and people in the ghetto sapping off the system, meanwhile,unbeknownst to themselves,they're also sapping off the system. But really, it's a necessary thing. YouCANNOT squeeze blood from a stone and there's a reason we have a progressive tax system. If you don't like it, pay more.




EDIT: fixed for trolls with nothing worthwhile to add

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AWDstylez wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Yes, according to anti-capitalists. There are other theories of economics. :what:

Theories which account for your concerns yet reject your assumptions about what a free market is or what one must inevitably do.

I would ask for a citation, but you'd have no harder a time coming up with them than I'd have refuting them.

Suffice it to say, I think you should research economics beyond the class you took while you were still in college.

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The problem is they're all theories and not one exists in it's pure form in the real world. That's why it's not even worth debating.

My original comment stands though. People cry socialism and redistribution of wealth, yet I don't see anyone volunteering to pay more taxes. When you get a grasp of how the American tax system REALLY works, it sobers you up fast, especially when you're in the sub-$150k/year catagory. Everyone wants to point to crackheads and people in the ghetto sapping off the system, meanwhile,unbeknownst to themselves,they're also sapping off the system. But really, it's a necessary thing. You can squeeze blood from a stone and there's a reason we have a progressive tax system. If you don't like it, pay more.

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Quick everybody send a box of rocks to the local Red Cross!! There is a blood shortage, and thanks to our resident GENIUS and Expert On Everything, with whom to disagree is to show oneself an abject fool, hath shown us the way! Say, you know how winos sell their blood for booze?? Maybe I can get me enough rock blood and sell it and buy a few cases of 9mm at the psychoneurotic prices we gotta pay these days. As Arte Johnson used to say: Veeeeeeeerrrry interesting, but (fill in the blank)

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Veeeeeeerrrrry interesting but ,

she must be CCWingwith two Lugers cause that purse hurts ?

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AWDstylez wrote:

marshaul wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Statesman wrote:

Socialism works great, until you run out of money from the producer class. Then government has to force people to labor, doing jobs they don't want to do.

Click to expand...

You have the confused with capitalism. Unchecked capitalism moveswealth upward and eventually destroys itself because there's no money left in the middle/lower classes to create demand.

Click to expand...

That may be "capitalism", but it is not a free market. Conversely, it may be a "free market", but it is not capitalism.

Click to expand...

You need to do a little more research into economics. Capitalism, a.k.a. a free market, moves wealth upward, end of st

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AWDstylez -- I'll agree with you 100% that "pure capitalism" will do as you described.

The best example of this is Wal-Mart..

Until recently(within a generation) the "supply chain" was local or regional, and many business "got a cut of the action" -- Money changed hands, sure, people paid more for goods, but it supported jobs. The employees at local stores were paid a "living wage", they had money to buy cars, save money, work-hard & get ahead.

Suddenly, "Insert Walmart" a giant corporate which grew based on it's ability to ship manufacturing overseas, eliminate full-time positions and run stores with part-time employees working below a livable wage and driving suppliers overseas by dicating profit margins to ludicrous levels, enforcing a "sub living-wage" on suppliers employees.

So -- in that regard, I think we can agree.

Where I disagree, and I think many disagree is that doesn't not to be pissing away our money "non-stop" to create a "more fair" condition for the free markets(and while the "free market" is a great buzzword, it's another way of saying unchecked capitalism).

If our federal & state governments didn't piss away LUDICROUS amounts of money of simply bogus shit, the rich people wouldn't have such a high tax burden, and I'm sure the "working poor" would still pay our current taxes.

My wife & I bring home "barely" 6 figures.. when I add up all my taxes, fees, licensing(counting everything), over 40% of our income flows to local, stateand federal government.

And, at the same time, there is an apartment complex near my employer where 1 our of every 3 units gets government subsidies.

I don't mind paying taxes. I get enraged to hear people saying the "average joe" needs to pay more taxes, while people like the OctoMom(and there are many many more with 2-3-4 kids) sit on their asses and collect government money.

If you had to personally pay the rent, grocers, doctors bills and medicine for these losers, you'd probably go kick them out of the aparment and tell them to "get a damn job", but when it's the government paying the bills, somehow that is different.

MY MONEY --- >> GOVERNMENT --->> PAID TO OCTOMOM

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AWDstylez wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Yes, according to anti-capitalists. There are other theories of economics. :what:

Theories which account for your concerns yet reject your assumptions about what a free market is or what one must inevitably do.

I would ask for a citation, but you'd have no harder a time coming up with them than I'd have refuting them.

Suffice it to say, I think you should research economics beyond the class you took while you were still in college.

Click to expand...

The problem is they're all theories and not one exists in it's pure form in the real world. That's why it's not even worth debating.

My original comment stands though. People cry socialism and redistribution of wealth, yet I don't see anyone volunteering to pay more taxes. When you get a grasp of how the American tax system REALLY works, it sobers you up fast, especially when you're in the sub-$150k/year catagory. Everyone wants to point to crackheads and people in the ghetto sapping off the system, meanwhile,unbeknownst to themselves,they're also sapping off the system. But really, it's a necessary thing. YouCANNOT squeeze blood from a stone and there's a reason we have a progressive tax system. If you don't like it, pay more.




EDIT: fixed for trolls with nothing worthwhile to add

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Hee hee hee......

Yes, Pot, I am indeed black.

Yours truly,

THE KETTLE :dude:

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AWDstylez wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

The only good socialist is the one that lies on the ground and doesn't breathe.

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Scan me a copy of the check you're mailing the government or STFU.

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Put it where the sun don't shine, boy.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

The only good socialist is the one that lies on the ground and doesn't breathe.

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Scan me a copy of the check you're mailing the government or STFU.

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Put it where the sun don't shine, boy.

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You brought back a week old thread from pages back just to say that? :quirky

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Capitalism: Is a free market where you earn wages based on the work you do. If you want to make more money work harder develop a strong work ethic and enrich your self with more job skills. This can result in a expanding gap between lower class and upper class and possibly eliminate the middle class all together.


Socialism: Is an attempt to make everyone equal. If you can't do for yourself we (the government) will have someone else do the work for you. Take more from the people who excel and earn more to balance the quality of life of everyone. This removes motivation to excel with more and more people become willing to do little to no work and have the same quality of life as the person next door working 40-50 hours a week. This can result in the elimination of the middle and upper classes.


Ideally you want a balance of the 2 systems to have an economy that will flourish and reward anyone willing to work hard.

Right now we have a very bad mix. We have a government that is leaning hard towards socialism and large companies that are leaning very hard towards capitalism. We have a government that is spending more then its making trying to house and feed so many leeches to the system. While at the same time we have large corporations shifting all their jobs over seas for higher profit margins.

Seems every year we are giving one of our large corporations a bail out and every year our government gets a bail out from China. If China was any other lending foundation they would have closed our accounts years ago.

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Tiny85 wrote:

Capitalism: Is a free market where you earn wages based on the work you do. If you want to make more money work harder develop a strong work ethic and enrich your self with more job skills. This can result in a expanding gap between lower class and upper class and possibly eliminate the middle class all together.


Socialism: Is an attempt to make everyone equal. If you can't do for yourself we (the government) will have someone else do the work for you. Take more from the people who excel and earn more to balance the quality of life of everyone. This removes motivation to excel with more and more people become willing to do little to no work and have the same quality of life as the person next door working 40-50 hours a week. This can result in the elimination of the middle and upper classes.


Ideally you want a balance of the 2 systems to have an economy that will flourish and reward anyone willing to work hard.

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OMG, finally someone that gets it. Where have you been?



On the current government... fascism. It's not even where we're headed anymore, it's where we are. Reagan got it rolling, everyone after him gave it a push,and Obama is just tying up loose ends. I lol HARD every time I hear someone blame all this on Obama. Everyone else built the bomb and put it in place, he just pushed the button.

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Oh, good .... Here we go again with "fascism" being bandied about. So many people talk about "fascist" this and "fascist' that without having a clue as to what "fascist" means. Last night I watcched a drunk call a cop a "fascist" for confiscatiing his brown bag and pouring out the booze prior to arrsting him for being drunk in public (which he was to a very disorderly degree).

Fortunately there is a gentleman on the Web whom I have cited in this forum several times. He has posted an article on his site called "Fascism: The Ultimate Definition" in which he examines the slightly differing definitions offered by prominent scholars such as Michael Mann, Robert Paxton, and RGB Bosworth. He then winnows these down and adds his own observations to distill what I think is the best definition of Fascism I have ever seen, and then offers som simple advice on how to avoid it. This can be found at www.Anesi.com/Fascism-TheUltimateDefinition.htm As always I urge those of you who have never been to this website to explore the rest of it also. Chuck is pretty damn smart.

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Alexcabbie wrote:

Oh, good .... Here we go again with "fascism" being bandied about. blah blah blah blah blah

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Don't be an idiot. Look at our current government and you'll have your definition. There's a massive difference between (correctly) calling our fascist government fascist, and a 6th grader calling his teacher a fascist because she's strict. :quirky

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Well of course you are such a genius that we must all take your pronouncements at face value. And you of course have no need of reading anything that might challenge your assumptions or - horrors!- enlighten you, who are in no need of enlightenment but who was placed here on this benighted planet to bestow Thy Superior Wisdom upon we, the unwashed hoipolloi.

Really, there are a lot of us who are getting really tired of your crap, Styles. Now go read the article and then go take the "F Scale" test on the same website and tell us all how you did, and don't fib.