Could I be charged with a different crime Such as Disturbing the peace, or Inciting a riot?

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

Could I be charged with a different crime Such as Disturbing the peace, or Inciting a roit, or is there something else they may hit me with? I am new to OC. I carried once two days ago inside the Alpine Walmart in Grand Rapids for 1 1/2 hours , couple looks but nothing else. What I am wondering is, could I be charged with something different? Have any of you guys be ran into an Officer that was a jerk and just charged you with some unrelated charge. I am familiar with the MI Law that over rules the locals but it pertanes only to gun laws. Could I be charged with a non gun law crime?

Venator · May 2, 2009

imported post

Smoothsounds21 wrote:

Could I be charged with a different crime Such as Disturbing the peace, or Inciting a roit, or is there something else they may hit me with? I am new to OC. I carried once two days ago inside the Alpine Walmart in Grand Rapids for 1 1/2 hours , couple looks but nothing else. What I am wondering is, could I be charged with something different? Have any of you guys be ran into an Officer that was a jerk and just charged you with some unrelated charge. I am familiar with the MI Law that over rules the locals but it pertanes only to gun laws. Could I be charged with a non gun law crime?

Sure you can be arrested for picking your nose, the growing police state gets away with what the public allows. Shame on us.

I don't know that anyone has been arrested for D the P or rioting, but you never know. That's why you need to be squeaky clean and up to date on the law. Read all the info here and the wash rinse repeat thread.

Michigander · May 2, 2009

imported post

DTP and such, no, not for lawfully carrying a holstered sidearm.

You could be charged with other crimes, such as for carrying in an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, if you carry at that Walmart and don't have a CPL. But there are no BS catch all laws that the police can get you with just because they may be annoyed by you OCing, just a lot of little laws that can bite you in the ass, particularly if you don't have a CPL.

Regardless of whether you have a CPL or not, I encourage you to research the relevant laws heavily before you OC anymore, or at least don't OC anymore unless you're at a meeting. In a state like this where not all, but a distinct minority of police are outright hostile towards us, and there are plentiful idiotic laws, you need to be very careful, or you could wind up facing felony charges.

Just make sure all laws are obeyed, and the odds of facing a judge are tiny at best, and even then, you'd probably be making thousands on the subsequent lawsuit. So be very careful, and you'll be fine.

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

Thank you both. I do have a CPL and have had one for about 4 years. I just really like the fact that I can carry a bigger gun more comfortably. I would really like there to be many more people doing this very same thing. I am very careful and have read the laws on here many times for about a week. I have since memorized the MCL123.1102. That seem like a really important one. I also have been carrying the info printouts with me when I do. I would like to get some of those OC cards to carry with me as well. I would be really open to more suggestions on how to carry and not get in trouble. Thanks again

Venator · May 2, 2009

imported post

Smoothsounds21 wrote:

Thank you both. I do have a CPL and have had one for about 4 years. I just really like the fact that I can carry a bigger gun more comfortably. I would really like there to be many more people doing this very same thing. I am very careful and have read the laws on here many times for about a week. I have since memorized the MCL123.1102. That seem like a really important one. I also have been carrying the info printouts with me when I do. I would like to get some of those OC cards to carry with me as well. I would be really open to more suggestions on how to carry and not get in trouble. Thanks again

With a CPL you are golden. No worries. They tend to pick on those without a CPL a bit more than those that do have one, for whatever reason.

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

I just want to put this out there since I am new to OC. I am 26 with a wife and two kids. I do my research on everything and consider myself a very well informed individual. I realize there may be some whack jobs that just want to run around with a gun, but that's not me. Do I think it is really cool that we are able to do this? Hell yes I do, but I will not be inappropriate or abuse my Right/Privilege in any way. That being said I look forward to carrying a bigger gun, and also educating others on the MI OC law. Thank you and I will look for more post in here on what to watch out for.

Michigander · May 2, 2009

imported post

Venator wrote:

With a CPL you are golden. No worries. They tend to pick on those without a CPL a bit more than those that do have one, for whatever reason.

I agree in part, but it is crucially important to factor in federal laws. Post offices, for example. Some grocery stores have post offices built into them. National forests you can't usually carry in. Also consider that you could get in trouble OCing in a gun free zone with an IWB holster. Or any court. You also have to be careful not to become careless with long gun transport. Being a CPL holder in Michigan makes OCing much easier than it is in most other states, but you still have to be mindful.

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

Thank you. I have been wondering what the federal law says on OC. And I did not know post offices (not that I would carry there anyway) or national forests were off limits. I will keep in mind that anything federal is off limits. Does that mean I can't carry CC on federal land because it does not say that on my CPL. Do any of you know what it says about OCing in the federal law? Also it would over rule MI law wouldn't it?

FatboyCykes · May 2, 2009

imported post

Smoothsounds21 wrote:

I just want to put this out there since I am new to OC. I am 26 with a wife and two kids. I do my research on everything and consider myself a very well informed individual. I realize there may be some whack jobs that just want to run around with a gun, but that's not me. Do I think it is really cool that we are able to do this? Hell yes I do, but I will not be inappropriate or abuse my Right/Privilege in any way. That being said I look forward to carrying a bigger gun, and also educating others on the MI OC law. Thank you and I will look for more post in here on what to watch out for.

Welcome aboard Smooth! I'm pretty much in your same shoes. 26, married with three boys and a wife who still thinks I'm a little crazy, but is more accepting each day. Getting into fights with the inlaws and such on my behalf, because of course, they think I'm a little crazy too. <3 this woman!

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

Sounds the same to me. I my in laws haven't really been a prob yet but now that I'm OCing I can see them saying things. My wife doesn't mind, in fact I am sure she feels safer when I have a gun. I have been asked before when we go into questionable area's, if I had a gun with me. My response "Of coarse which one where you looking for".

zigziggityzoo · May 2, 2009

imported post

Michigander wrote:

Venator wrote:

With a CPL you are golden. No worries. They tend to pick on those without a CPL a bit more than those that do have one, for whatever reason.

Click to expand...

I agree in part, but it is crucially important to factor in federal laws. Post offices, for example. Some grocery stores have post offices built into them. National forests you can't usually carry in. Also consider that you could get in trouble OCing in a gun free zone with an IWB holster. Or any court. You also have to be careful not to become careless with long gun transport. Being a CPL holder in Michigan makes OCing much easier than it is in most other states, but you still have to be mindful.

Such post offices are rarely, if ever, owned by the USPS, and instead are USPS partners. IF it is actually a post office, then you are only limited by the exact space that the post office has rented from the building owner.

Courthouses are banned zones not by law, but from "legislation from the bench," aka a court order. Violating the order puts you in contempt of court, for which they can order you to prison for an indefinite amount of time.

Venator · May 2, 2009

imported post

Smoothsounds21 wrote:

Thank you. I have been wondering what the federal law says on OC. And I did not know post offices (not that I would carry there anyway) or national forests were off limits. I will keep in mind that anything federal is off limits. Does that mean I can't carry CC on federal land because it does not say that on my CPL. Do any of you know what it says about OCing in the federal law? Also it would over rule MI law wouldn't it?

National forests are okay, National parks have an injunction now to reevaluate allowing CC with a CPL in National PARKS which was allowed last January. So no carrying a loaded firearm in national Parks. Federal building are off limits and there is some ambiguity in regards to post offices.

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

All good info. I'm not looking to push it so I think I will stay were I know I can go. Walmart seems to be the place to shop. Its cool cuz I shop there anyway. National parks I will have to look for, Funny thing is I CC when camping at them. I'm glad I started this post. I definitely learned a few things.

Michigander · May 2, 2009

imported post

DOH!

I meant national parks, not national forests. I've gone shooting in National Forests.

Smoothsounds21 · May 2, 2009

imported post

I don't have to have my pistol registration with me do I.

zigziggityzoo · May 2, 2009

imported post

Going back to the original question, The "Disturbing the Peace" charge is generally a local ordinance, and is unenforceable due to MCL 123.1102.

The closest MCL is "Disorderly Conduct," which has a very specific set of qualifications, found here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-167 . None of these can feasibly be construed to define the lawful carry of a firearm.

Inciting to Riot is one you could be charged with, provided you actually encourage others to, or participate in, a riot. Merely openly carrying a firearm does not fit into these categories, generally speaking.

However, an officer can try to charge you with anything he wants. It's up to the prosecutor to make them stick, and really, if you're just openly carrying (no other factors involved), there's nothing that'll stick.

The officers that you are referring to are called "Opinion Enforcement Officers", They are everywhere, they give LEO's a bad name, and they're always on a power trip. They are indistinguishable from a LEO, and their mission is to give you a bad day. So carry safe, and know the law. Carry a recorder if you wish, it may save your tail.

zigziggityzoo · May 2, 2009

imported post

Smoothsounds21 wrote:

I don't have to have my pistol registration with me do I.

Only if you're within the 30-day window after the purchase of your firearm. That registration cannot otherwise be required to be carried.

T Vance · May 2, 2009

imported post

You should keep it on you ifyou purchased thefirearm less than a month ago. I bought mine abot 6 weeks, the cops ran the registration on the gun and it was already registered under my name.

I can't say this enough...it looks likealot to read on here on the WASH, RINSE, REPEAT thread, but take my advice, MEMORIZE IT!!! READ IT OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER!!!

The other important thing, DO NOT TALK WITH THE POLICE! ONLY ANSWER WHAT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER (which isn't much)! GET A RECORDER (may seem like a pain as it is one more thing in your pocket, but you will wish you had it if you are charged with a crime)!!!, and finally, DON'T TALKWITH THE POLICE!!! Instinct will tell you to be a nice person like you normally may act, and the police may be acting nice to, but the reality is that they are fishing for answers with hopes that you INCRIMINATE YOURSELF!!!

WASH, RINSE, REPEAT!!!

Oh yeah, welcome to MOC!

T.

ghostrider · May 2, 2009

imported post

T Vance wrote:

You should keep it on you ifyou purchased thefirearm less than a month ago. I bought mine abot 6 weeks, the cops ran the registration on the gun and it was already registered under my name.

I can't say this enough...it looks likealot to read on here on the WASH, RINSE, REPEAT thread, but take my advice, MEMORIZE IT!!! READ IT OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER!!!

The other important thing, DO NOT TALK WITH THE POLICE! ONLY ANSWER WHAT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER (which isn't much)! GET A RECORDER (may seem like a pain as it is one more thing in your pocket, but you will wish you had it if you are charged with a crime)!!!, and finally, DON'T TALKWITH THE POLICE!!! Instinct will tell you to be a nice person like you normally may act, and the police may be acting nice to, but the reality is that they are fishing for answers with hopes that you INCRIMINATE YOURSELF!!!

WASH, RINSE, REPEAT!!!

Oh yeah, welcome to MOC!

T.

+1000

Especially in Grand Rapids. Do not do anything other than "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT". And keep your head about you. If you can run the recorder without them knowing, then even the better. I wouldn't put it past some of the GRPD to seize the recorder regardless that it is a violation of the 4th.

Smoothsounds21 · May 3, 2009

imported post

So should I not carry in GR. Maybe just outside. I live on Alpine and 9 mile. So I stay in the area mostly. I wonder how Sparta cops would take it?

Could I be charged with a different crime Such as Disturbing the peace, or Inciting a riot?

Regular Member

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Regular Member

Regular Member

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member