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Thread: need some help to set a park ranger straight

  1. #1
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    i was at cooks forest today and had a state park ranger asked me to conceal my weapon. correct me if i am wrong but i thought you are allowed to open carry in a state park because they abide by state law which would allow open carry in a state park

    and if i am right where could i find the section of the law to prove i am right

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    Sorry, but you, unfortunately, are in the wrong. I do sincerely wish it was the other way around.

    The recent change to the DCNR regulation now permits concealed carry, but only if you have a Pennsylvania LTCF. Open carry is not (yet) permitted; out-of-state licenses/permits recognized by Pennsylvania for all other purposes statewide do not permit concealed carry in state parks.

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    thank you. he was cool about it. ya he was a very nice ranger just got done talking to him. he's very cool. we both learned alot to night and he even checked out are web sight.

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    spencer280 wrote:
    thank you. he was cool about it. ya he was a very nice ranger just got done talking to him. he's very cool. we both learned alot to night and he even checked out are web sight.
    Just wondering, did you get a fine? How do you know he checked out the website? After you told him about it, he may have just said he'd check it out to humor you.

  5. #5
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    Sorry, but you, unfortunately, are in the wrong. I do sincerely wish it was the other way around.

    The recent change to the DCNR regulation now permits concealed carry, but only if you have a Pennsylvania LTCF. Open carry is not (yet) permitted; out-of-state licenses/permits recognized by Pennsylvania for all other purposes statewide do not permit concealed carry in state parks.
    Could this jeopardize reciprocal agreements currently in place? I thought the whole idea was to extend the privileges of your state to license holders of others.

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    i know he was on are sight because i was guiding him threw it . you see when i got home i called him and we talked for an hour about gun carry and open carry. he said he hopes that soon people would be allowed to open carry in state parks. he told me he is all for it. he also said that a criminal will not go around open carrying a weapon and that people should be able to walk down a street and not worry because they see a gun on someones hip he also stated that he is a police officer for brookville pa and to answer you question no he did not give me a fine nor did he ask me for my permit all he asked was if i could conceal it and i complide.

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    Title 18, Section 6109 (Licenses) has been amended as follows:
    (m.2) Inconsistent provisions.--Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7506 (relating to violation of rules regarding conduct on Commonwealth property), 75 Pa.C.S. ยง 7727 (relating to additional limitations on operation) or the act of June 28, 1995 (P.L. 89, No. 18), [FN3] known as the Conservation and Natural Resources Act, and regulations promulgated under that act, a firearm may be carried as provided in subsection (a) by:

    (1) a law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm; or

    (2) any licensee.

    (m.3) Construction.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the hunting or harvesting of any wildlife with a firearm or ammunition not otherwise permitted by 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to game).

    (n) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "licensee" means an individual who is licensed to carry a firearm under this section.


    Subsection (m.2) overrides the state park restriction, but subsection (n) limits the carry to LTCF holders only (since Section 6109 only applies to Pennsylvania LTCFs).

    And since open carry is not mentioned, it wasn't exempted.


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    spencer280 wrote:
    ... also stated that he is a police officer for brookville pa and to answer you question no he did not give me a fine nor did he ask me for my permit all he asked was if i could conceal it and i complide.
    So....the cop was right about interpreting the applicable law and he assisted you in complying with it and he treated you politely and responsibly and didn't cite you for your infraction????

    Uh-oh, Citizen is not gonna like this one...



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    HankT wrote:
    spencer280 wrote:
    ... also stated that he is a police officer for brookville pa and to answer you question no he did not give me a fine nor did he ask me for my permit all he asked was if i could conceal it and i complide.
    So....the cop was right about interpreting the applicable law and he assisted you in complying with it and he treated you politely and responsibly and didn't cite you for your infraction????

    Uh-oh, Citizen is not gonna like this one...

    Too bad all LEO encounters don't go assmoothly as this one.

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    Statkowski,

    Hopefully this isn't too much of a gravedig, but I was reading the reciprocity agreement between TN and PA, and I think that the wording of the agreement treats (in this case) TN permit holders as if they were PA permit holders. Thus, where the section that you cite showing the definition of licensee does include permit holders from states that have formal reciprocity. At least thats my read; as always, I reserve the right to be wrong.



    Regards,

    Pol

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    Statkowski wrote:
    The recent change to the DCNR regulation now permits concealed carry, but only if you have a Pennsylvania LTCF.
    Does anyone have that is writing somewhere? I camp at state parks all the time and would like to CC

  12. #12
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    Thus, where the section that you cite showing the definition of licensee does include permit holders from states that have formal reciprocity. At least thats my read; as always, I reserve the right to be wrong.
    No, you were not wrong - I was. You may concealed carry in a Pa. state park if you have either a Pa. LTCF or a license/permit recognized by Pa.

    The DCNR regulation still stands as written and states that carrying a firearm, concealed or open, is a violation. However, State Law was amended to partially overrule the regulation to permit concealed carry - since open carry is not mentioned in the Uniform Firearms Act, that portion (which didn't exist) couldn't be amended.

    DCNR is part of the Executive Branch, and the current governor is not about to let citizens exercise their rights when possible. State Law, however, originates with the Legislative Branch, and the governor had no choice but to sign the statute amendment into law - elsewise his veto would have been overruled by the legislature and the statute amendment would have still become law.

    The park ranger was correct - it has to be concealed.

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    This was an awesome discussion and I thank you all that contributed to it. I am going to Cooks Forest the weekend of the 28th of August, this Friday, for a Star Trek Campout with some friends and all of this data was extremely helpful and answered most any questions I had about State Park carry. Thank God I have both a WV and a PA license so I am covered any way you look at it here. I would rather be on the right side and informed than to think I know the answer and blow it for myself and everyone else <grin>. I am also too old, broke down and fat to be thrown down by a LEO for making a major mistake. I hope you all hold an OC event in the South-Western PA area and then I may get to attend one for once. Again, thanks and keep up the great discussions!

    Scott
    Morgantown, WV

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