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Thread: La Crosse Co.

  1. #1
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    Has anyone done much OC in La Crosse, Onalaska, or Holmen? I have just started to OC around the yard and would like to OC in more public settings. I do, however, have a few concerns. Our local Wal-Marts are "Super Wal-Mart" and sell liqueur for off sale and premise consumption. Does this mean that you may not OC in them? Is there a list of local or state businesses where it is legal and allowed to OC? What exactly are the laws regarding loaded chamber? I thought some states allow OC as long as you are "steps" away from the actual firing of the weapon. Thank you very much. I have spent many hours reading some of the posts on OCDO and I have learned quite a lot. Thank you again,

    Little Otter

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    LittleOtter wrote:
    Has anyone done much OC in La Crosse, Onalaska, or Holmen? I have just started to OC around the yard and would like to OC in more public settings. I do, however, have a few concerns. Our local Wal-Marts are "Super Wal-Mart" and sell liqueur for off sale and premise consumption. Does this mean that you may not OC in them? Is there a list of local or state businesses where it is legal and allowed to OC? What exactly are the laws regarding loaded chamber? I thought some states allow OC as long as you are "steps" away from the actual firing of the weapon. Thank you very much. I have spent many hours reading some of the posts on OCDO and I have learned quite a lot. Thank you again,

    Little Otter
    Cannot carry in a class B liquor license establishment, govn't buildings, your car or bike, or school zone. Call the city and find out if Wal-mart has a class B license.

    Be careful with school zones. They apply to non-private property within 1000' of the edge of school property. Your gun needs to be unloaded/encased to comply with the law and the penalties for a screw up are severe (felony if convicted). This means you should unload/encase your gun when traveling in a car, for two reasons:
    1. Unload/encase is required by law in a car
    2. You will no doubt pass into school zones and unloaded/encased is required for this too.

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    First, IANAL. Second, this is NOT legal advice, merely the facts as I find them.
    From the quick search I did, it appears that Wal-Mart possesses a “class A” liquor license.

    941.237(2)
    (2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any premises for which a Class "B" or "Class B" license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    In 2007, the “Class A” liquor licenses were changed to allow sampling.

    125.25(1)
    (1) Every municipal governing body may issue Class "A" licenses for the sale of fermented malt beverages from premises within the municipality. Subject to s. 125.34 (5) and (6), a Class "A" license authorizes retail sales of fermented malt beverages for consumption off the premises where sold and in original packages, containers, and bottles. A Class "A" license also authorizes the licensee to provide, free of charge, to customers and visitors who have attained the legal drinking age fermented malt beverages taste samples that are not in original packages, containers, or bottles and that do not exceed 3 fluid ounces each, for consumption on the Class "A" premises. No Class "A" licensee may provide more than 2 taste samples per day to any one person. Taste samples may be provided under this subsection only between the hours of 11 a.m. and 7 p.m. Any other provision of this chapter applicable to retail sales of fermented malt beverages by a Class "A" licensee also applies to the provision of taste samples, free of charge, of fermented malt beverages by a Class "A" licensee. A license may be issued after July 1. That license shall expire on the following June 30.
    Because Wal-Mart, Quillins, Festival, etc. would possess a Class “A” license, there is no legal prohibition on carrying in such places.

    Wisconsin has no regulations on open carry regarding how “close” to loaded a firearm is. Therefore, you can carry with a round chambered, cocked and locked.

    As smithman posted, always ensure it is unloaded and fully encased during vehicle transport. You also must COMPLETELY REMOVE the case from the vehicle before opening it.



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    I must ask,

    Has anyone ever oc'ed in the downtown La Crossearea? There have been many altercations at a certain "club" downtown in the vicinity of 3rd st between Pearl and Main. Some of these have occurred at or shortly after the"bar time" of 2am on weekdays and 2:30am onweekends. Just curiousif anyone has considered or followed through with anOC around those parts. According to a roughgoogle search, there are no school zones or anything near the 3rd or 4th st area between Jackson and State streets. At the north end of that corridor is the Juvenile DetentionCenter. Does that count as a "school zone" as described in the law?

    Again, Just curious.

    Little Otter


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    LittleOtter wrote:
    At the north end of that corridor is the Juvenile DetentionCenter. Does that count as a "school zone" as described in the law?
    Nope
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    La Crosse officially has a business that is posted.

    Buffalo Wild Wing, Inc. in Onalaska, WI is posted:

    Buffalo Wild Wings, Inc. bans guns on these premises.


    I was informed that a third party spoke with the manager, and that this is a corporate policy. They just opened up and they are already turning away paying customers, go figure...





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    Buffalo wild wings sells alcohol anyway....


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    I saw the same posting at the Hudson, WI, BWW and thought the same thing. It's already prohibited by law, so their sign is pretty meaningless.

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    beltfedmg wrote:
    I saw the same posting at the Hudson, WI, BWW and thought the same thing. It's already prohibited by law, so their sign is pretty meaningless.
    It's not entirely meaningless because it's symbolic of an anti-gun mentality.

    They're probably too ignorant to realize that there's a Class B liquor license ban already in effect, so I'd make a point of telling them that you're boycotting them on principle.
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Shotgun wrote:
    beltfedmg wrote:
    I saw the same posting at the Hudson, WI, BWW and thought the same thing. It's already prohibited by law, so their sign is pretty meaningless.
    It's not entirely meaningless because it's symbolic of an anti-gun mentality.

    They're probably too ignorant to realize that there's a Class B liquor license ban already in effect, so I'd make a point of telling them that you're boycotting them on principle.
    Their $6 beers are reason enough.

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    I'm EXCEPTIONALLY happy when business owners post signs letting me know that they don't support constitutional rights. It gives me the opportunity to spend elsewhere.

    At this very moment i'm probably supporting and patronizing busiensses that don't support my rights. I hope they post signs, so I know. In this economy, I want my money spent and profiting businesses that support freedom.

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    The Appleton BWW has the same thing. I know I cant carry there because of the alcohol and it is company policy but, I didnt see the sign untill recently, like a month ago.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    LittleOtter wrote:
    I must ask,

    Has anyone ever oc'ed in the downtown La Crossearea? There have been many altercations at a certain "club" downtown in the vicinity of 3rd st between Pearl and Main. Some of these have occurred at or shortly after the"bar time" of 2am on weekdays and 2:30am onweekends. Just curiousif anyone has considered or followed through with anOC around those parts. According to a roughgoogle search, there are no school zones or anything near the 3rd or 4th st area between Jackson and State streets. At the north end of that corridor is the Juvenile DetentionCenter. Does that count as a "school zone" as described in the law?

    Again, Just curious.

    Little Otter

    To my knowledge, the answer is no. Can we carry downtown, I believe the answer to be YES. I have some ideas about what is next for La Crosse, but they are only ideas at this point. It will give us plenty to discuss at the picnic.




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    OC'ed in the yard today, all day. I had a few neighbors come over to say hello and ask about it. I told them a little bit about OCDO and OC in general. One of them was interested in the idea and had always wondered about OC/CC in Wisconsinsince he moved here. Overall, it was a big success I think. I had no troubles and no expressed concern. Oneneighbor came over and didn't even notice, and if he did he did notmake mentionof it.

    Little Otter

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    Bought a holster for my Glock 19 today. It's a Fobus Holster GL2, and it was almost exactly what I was looking for. Nice cause I can wear it on a belt, or just wear it on the waist of my pants.

    I live right next to the Wal-Mart in Onalaska, and would love to build up the courage to be able to carry when I go shopping. I normally do my best to avoid confrontation, and I don't like people staring at me. Doesn't help that I'm only 22, and people might feel more threatened by me than a guy in his 40s or so.

    But hopefully I can work my way into it by wearing it around the house, or wear it over to a friends house for a cook out or something.

    Anyways, looking forward to hearing stories from others around the area, and can't wait to have my own to share!

    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
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    CC permits: MN, FL, NH, PA and CO

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    This is EXACTLY WHY we are having these picnics. So we can meet/greet one another, see that we are NOT alone, and work together to further the free exercise of ALL rights for ALL citizens.

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    This is EXACTLY WHY we are having these picnics. So we can meet/greet one another, see that we are NOT alone, and work together to further the free exercise of ALL rights for ALL citizens.
    Yup. Such a shame we feel like we are wrong when we are doing something totally legal...

    Hope to see you guys at this picnic!
    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP
    CC permits: MN, FL, NH, PA and CO

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  18. #18
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    So I talked to a few La Crosse leo's tonight...:X

    I have never really been too nervous around authority figures. I am comfortable walking right up and talking to just about anyone. So when I walked up and started chatting with a few officers outside of the La Crosse center tonight, I thought I had nothing to fear. I introduced myself and they did not seem to be alarmed what so ever. I asked what the La Crosse pd's stance on open carry was. It took me about thirty seconds to realize that they were trying to explain that you may not carry alcohol in the streets. I said no, I was asking about open carry of a firearm. They scuffed at me and said that no, you will get arrested for that. I mentioned that open carry was legal state wide, and I was just looking for some clarification on La Crosse's stance. The one officer then was so sure of himself in saying that you can't carry a gun in WI that he scolded me by saying that I didn't know what I was talking about. After thatI tried to explain that the law was that you may carry as long as your not within a 1000' of aschool zone, or on state or city property. I said, "So, if I carry on private property in the city of La Crosse, IWILL definitely get arrested for it, even though it is my right per state and US constitution." I even mentioned Gov. Doyle’s quote of if you’re going to wearyour gun, wear it on your hip... The one who didmost of the talking told me that if hesaw me wearing a gun, he would arrest me on spot for sure. I did not feel as though I was causing trouble or anything, but the third officer decided that I was. He stepped in between me and the other officer who was about 6 feet away from me. Instead of standing in the middle or at least in a non threatening way, he got right in my face. His face was about 10"-12" away from mine and said "walk away now or I will walk you away." I told him that I was not trying to argue or anything, I was simply looking for some insight on what would happen if I would carry in La Crosse. He stepped forward and I stepped back. I then looked over his shoulder and said "thank you officers, you have been most helpful." The third said with quite a bit of volume, "WALK AWAY!" I saw them inside at the concert shortly after and said thank you again and to have a good night.

    I have always been one to respect authority with the same respect the authority figure gives me. I have lost the little respect I had for some members of the La Crosse force. I realize there are some good ones around here, I happen to know a few personally. However, these three were completely rude to me in all ways. The officer who sort of sat back and nodded in agreement with the other was Officer Drew Gavrilos[/b]. I will have to find out who the others were. The one who said he would arrest me was about 5'10" +/-250 lbs with reddish brown hair and a go-tee. He was maybe 40-45 years old and very smug. The one who got in my face was about6' +/- 180 lbs and about 40 years old. He was balding with short hair and freckles.

    Perhaps the picnic will not only inform some of the public of the laws. Maybe it will also inform some of those who have the job of enforcing laws.

    I am thinking, would it be wise to pursue a drop off at the police station of a copy of the state statutes and laws regarding open carry. It could be a packet of sorts with quotes, pamphlets, statute copies, and an picnic invitation? It could be prefaced by a cover letter explaining intent of those who OC written with a respectful tone.

    Either way, seems as though ChiefKondracki has got himself a bunch of dinks for the face of the force. I am disappointed.

    Little Otter



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    I have already had SEVERAL emails back and forth with Chief Kondracki. It's too bad you didn't have a recorder on you, because I would LOVE to have been able to take that THREAT to the Council of the whole and asked the new Mayor and Council President if in fact they support La Crosse Police Officers violating the citizens constitutional rights.

    Kondracki NEVER addressed the actual issue of "Open Carry."

    At this point, ALL my focus is on the picnic. At the picnic, we will plan our next move.

    Please get everybody you can find to come, carrying or not!

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    I was thinking exactly that when I was walking up to them... I will have to start carrying one. Do I need to disclose that I have one in advance of any conversation. I have put the word out to many of my friends and coworkers. Kondracki has always just "danced around the issue" when it comes to several different topics. I think that Matt Harter is the type of guy that will listen to his constituency though. He has been supported by the tavern league and seems to be supporting back as well. I would bet that the picnic and perhaps a few letters will help the situation.

    Little Otter

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    Others on here can give you all the legal stuff, but basically Wisconsin is a ONE (1) party aware state. By that I mean that only one (1) party need be aware the conversation is being recorded. As you would be doing the recording, you would be aware.

    Others on here have recommended the Olympus Digital Voice Recorder WS-321M to me, available at Best Buy.



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    I'll just offer up my personal opinion on this, and its not intended to criticize what you did littleotter. Again, just my opinion and professional experience in dealing with "people" of which, thats what police officers are. They are just "people"

    First, when you deal with people, its best to operate from a position of confidence and assuredness. We know what the law is. We know its legal. If in our minds, we are going to sit back and wait for a leo on the street to say "its ok, go ahead" We would NEVER open carry.
    I mentioned that open carry was legal state wide, and I was just looking for some clarification on La Crosse's stance.
    By asking this question of them, you are NOT operating from a position of confidence and assuredness. By going up to the police and asking "what they will do" you are placing them in the position of power. You are telling the police "I am fearful of you, so before I go about exercizing my rights, I am making sure you aren't going to do bad things to me" That just feeds into the effectiveness of their intimidation tactics. This re-inforces their tactics of fear and intimidation.

    We need to send a message to the police that we KNOW what our rights are, and we will exercise them. Going up to them like you did is (if they didn't already know) teaching the police that regardless of the law, people are still afraid to do something the local PD doesn't "approve of"

    I open carry in West Allis ALL over the place. Do you think if I call the west allis PD and say "is it ok to open carry" they'll say "yes" HELL NO. I don't need permission from the police. This is a lawful activity. I KNOW IT. They don't need to give me permission.

    The police (as demonstrated) have shown NO obligation to know the law, no obligation to be correct in the law. As a matter of attitude, we KNOW cops are not "public servants" but rather "priviliged enforcers" who enjoy special priviliges average citizens do not, who work in an environment that fosters ego's and attitudes that they are the rulers and we are the ruled. Intimidation and fearare their "tools of the trade". We know most cops (almost all) have a "we are the law, you obey us" attitude, AS SUCH they will likely NEVER tell you that you "can" do something.

    If you know open carry is legal statewide WHY would you have to ask what La Crosse's stance is? WHY would you indicate to a police officer that it MATTERS what the La Crosse PD's stance is.TheLa Crosse PD doesn't have different laws.By asking this question of them, you are indicating that you are afraid to do what you know is legal until you get the green light from a cop on the street?

    If you were not afraid, you would just "do it".

    If you have no confidence in the fact that guys like Jesus open carried at will BEFORE the AG memo and NEVER got charged, if you have no confidence that BEFORE the AG memo, Brad Krause was found not guilty. If after all that and THEN the AG memo and ALL the subsequent publicity, you still don't have confidence in that the law will be behind you, don't open carry.

    This is not a criticism by any means. Everyone has a different level of fortitude when it comes to standing up for their rights.

    Pre AG memo, Jesus was the only one that I know of that was willing to put faith in his constitutional rights and the justice system. BIG balls. There was a lot of risk for him. Not everyone belongs on the front lines of the fight for freedom like Jesus.

    Post AG memo, the risk has been WAY reduced from fear of CONVICTION (which WILL NOT HAPPEN) if you are doing nothing else wrong, just OC'ing, to fear of merely being detained.

    If you are afraid of merely being detained by police (because we KNOW you can't be charged with a crime, let alone conivcted) then you don't belong on the secondary lines in the battle for freedom. And thats fine. Everyone has their own level of fortitude in these matters.

    But we need to stop empowering the police. We need to stop re-inforcing the attitudes that cops already have (that they make the rules). They don't. If you are afraid of the police YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS. NONE.

    If you don't know your rights. YOU DON'T HAVE THEM.





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    http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-090...,2079684.story

    Attorney General Van Hollen in a meeting with police chiefs from across the state:
    "In reading the constitution it [open carry] CLEARLY is not [disorderly conduct]"

    "it is CLEARLY PERMISSIBLE for law-abiding citizens [to open carry]"
    It doesn't matter what a cop with a bad attitude on the street in La Crosse says

    Be polite and professional with cops. Do not try and buddy buddy up to them. Do not give them the further misconception that we are asking permission. Just be polite and professional but DO NOT rely on the cops to inform you of what the law is or isn't.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I'll just offer up my personal opinion on this, and its not intended to criticize what you did littleotter. Again, just my opinion and professional experience in dealing with "people" of which, thats what police officers are. They are just "people"

    First, when you deal with people, its best to operate from a position of confidence and assuredness. We know what the law is. We know its legal. If in our minds, we are going to sit back and wait for a leo on the street to say "its ok, go ahead" We would NEVER open carry.
    I mentioned that open carry was legal state wide, and I was just looking for some clarification on La Crosse's stance.
    By asking this question of them, you are NOT operating from a position of confidence and assuredness. By going up to the police and asking "what they will do" you are placing them in the position of power. You are telling the police "I am fearful of you, so before I go about exercizing my rights, I am making sure you aren't going to do bad things to me" That just feeds into the effectiveness of their intimidation tactics. This re-inforces their tactics of fear and intimidation.

    We need to send a message to the police that we KNOW what our rights are, and we will exercise them. Going up to them like you did is (if they didn't already know) teaching the police that regardless of the law, people are still afraid to do something the local PD doesn't "approve of"

    I open carry in West Allis ALL over the place. Do you think if I call the west allis PD and say "is it ok to open carry" they'll say "yes" HELL NO. I don't need permission from the police. This is a lawful activity. I KNOW IT. They don't need to give me permission.

    The police (as demonstrated) have shown NO obligation to know the law, no obligation to be correct in the law. As a matter of attitude, we KNOW cops are not "public servants" but rather "priviliged enforcers" who enjoy special priviliges average citizens do not, who work in an environment that fosters ego's and attitudes that they are the rulers and we are the ruled. Intimidation and fearare their "tools of the trade". We know most cops (almost all) have a "we are the law, you obey us" attitude, AS SUCH they will likely NEVER tell you that you "can" do something.

    If you know open carry is legal statewide WHY would you have to ask what La Crosse's stance is? WHY would you indicate to a police officer that it MATTERS what the La Crosse PD's stance is.TheLa Crosse PD doesn't have different laws.By asking this question of them, you are indicating that you are afraid to do what you know is legal until you get the green light from a cop on the street?

    If you were not afraid, you would just "do it".

    If you have no confidence in the fact that guys like Jesus open carried at will BEFORE the AG memo and NEVER got charged, if you have no confidence that BEFORE the AG memo, Brad Krause was found not guilty. If after all that and THEN the AG memo and ALL the subsequent publicity, you still don't have confidence in that the law will be behind you, don't open carry.

    This is not a criticism by any means. Everyone has a different level of fortitude when it comes to standing up for their rights.

    Pre AG memo, Jesus was the only one that I know of that was willing to put faith in his constitutional rights and the justice system. BIG balls. There was a lot of risk for him. Not everyone belongs on the front lines of the fight for freedom like Jesus.

    Post AG memo, the risk has been WAY reduced from fear of CONVICTION (which WILL NOT HAPPEN) if you are doing nothing else wrong, just OC'ing, to fear of merely being detained.

    If you are afraid of merely being detained by police (because we KNOW you can't be charged with a crime, let alone conivcted) then you don't belong on the secondary lines in the battle for freedom. And thats fine. Everyone has their own level of fortitude in these matters.

    But we need to stop empowering the police. We need to stop re-inforcing the attitudes that cops already have (that they make the rules). They don't. If you are afraid of the police YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS. NONE.

    If you don't know your rights. YOU DON'T HAVE THEM.



    hugh jarmis, you're right on this issue. Thank you for your comments.:celebrate

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    Well said Nik.

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