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Thread: ****OC in Detroit TODAY!*****

  1. #1
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    [b][color=red][size=4]
    Who: M.O.C.
    What: Sidewalk March
    Where: The corner of Clinton and Beuabian (Downtown Detroit)
    Why: Opposition of Tyranny
    When: 5-4-2009
    5PM-6PM


    What to Bring:
    Your Sidearm
    MSP Legal Updates
    printed out (66, 68)
    LEO Information packs

    Cameras
    Video Cameras
    Voice Recorders


    Origin:
    Veritas wrote:
    Maybe I'm stirring the pot... but whatever: Last night, I got into discussion with an off duty LEO. Great guy... personable, likable, all that jazz. However he made a comment about my holster (I was at a bar; left the pistol properly secured and stowed in my friends vehicle). He asked if I walk around with my gun on my hip. I affirmed that I normally do. Here is where the 45 minute debate began. I'll spare the details, but the punchline is that he couldn't be MORE wrong about his positions. His contention is that, as a cop, he has authority to stop anyone for any reason and demand ID... "especially" if they're carrying a weapon. His notion was that demanding ID from someone, and arresting them if they fail to produce it, is his lawful duty because carrying a gun is suspicious. However, he could not define exactly what made the person suspicious. I tried to use analogies to help him realize how ridiculous that sounded. I equated stopping a man with a gun to stopping a man wearing a Turban... unwarranted and prejudicial suspicions about the person matter not when they are merely enjoying their Constitutional freedoms.

    Anyways... much more was said and discussed; he just wasn't getting it so I decided to end the discussion. However, he left me with a challenge: To "come to his city" while openly carrying and refuse to show ID when stopped. I accepted the challenge. So here's the deal: Monday, between the hours of 5 and 6, outside the county jail on Clinton and Beuabian (Downtown Detroit), I will be walking down the street openly carrying. The LEO works in the building on that day and will be on lunch between those hours and guarantees that an officer will stop me. He further asserts that upon refusing to show ID and answer questions about where I'm coming from or going, that I will be arrested.

    I've got a pretty clear calender up until Thursday so I've got the time to fight this if necessary. My friend is driving me (so I don't have to worry about being towed) and will be documenting with a camcorder. I tell you folks here just as a heads up. I'll report back after it's done. I honestly don't expect to be arrested... but if I am, I will make my point in court and hopefully more officers in that city become better informed about the law and civil liberties.
    Map: http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEx...58&zoom=18

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf

    [size=2][color=black][b][color=red][size=4]http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    I can't come, but I'll be watching for updates.

  3. #3
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    I wish I could come! however, I like getting paid more than getting in trouble! :-D Have fun guys!

  4. #4
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I would love to join you but it's a 2 1/2 hour drive for me... I can't wait to hear what happens (or what doesn't happen!)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  5. #5
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.
    Oh no! Many lawyers have stated they'd defend us if we needed council. I hope the police were clearly wrong, and did something stupid so a lawyer will take the case on commission. But obviously don't give the details out on the web.

    I don't know what his rates are, but the one lawyer I can personally recommend as being extremely competent in gun laws is Dean Greenblat. His phone number is 248 644 7520. He is the guy that designed the little yellow sticker you can put on your license to notify the police about being a CPL holder who may be carrying.

    I wish I could have been there, but I won't have a running car until my parts get in. I hope that whatever events transpired lead to open carrying in Detroit being understood by police.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Yeah, Thanks for that, I'll contact him. I talked to quite a few people while wandering around and nobody had any problems. Handed out some pamphlets and chatted with folks a bit. Police saw me after a while and that's when things got interesting. Not going to give out details here for now. We'll see how it goes down.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Another good lawyer, who Mark from the Wild West Academy personally vouches for, is Keith Watson. He lives in Lansing, so I don't know how practical it would be for him to take the case with there being other lawyers who are much closer, but he is apparently extremely pro gun, and also very competent with the law. His phone number is 517-763-3160

    I don't know that he'd be any better or worse, but I suppose if you end up trying to get a lawyer on commission, that it would be good to have multiple contacts.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Thanks again. Can't hurt to have a lot of contacts. Especially since I would prefer if I can get them on commission.

    On a side note, I'm looking forward to hear from doug and the others. Hopefully things went alright for them.

  10. #10
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    lol I'm just now seeing this thread.

    Oh well... better late than never. :-P

  11. #11
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    Watching for updates.

  12. #12
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    You can say at least sayif you were cited or arrested, and the charge, as that is public info without giving the details.





  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.
    Please post here when you can, or post a link to anythread you start regarding the matter.

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.
    It looks like you're not the only one involved yesterday to need one...

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/25453-1.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

    They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

    I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?

  16. #16
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

    They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

    I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?
    Call as many lawyer's as you can.

    Most of them will give a free telephone consult.

    It's usually good to get multiple opinions.



  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

    They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

    I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?
    Any of the attornies on the info thread are pro-gun and would give you advice. I suggest you talk to all of them.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Does anyone know in certainty that the Detoit Police Department was sent one of our informational packets before this incident? If so, was it sent certifiable mail or FedEx or in another manner that would allow us to confirm delivery?

  19. #19
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Does anyone know in certainty that the Detoit Police Department was sent one of our informational packets before this incident? If so, was it sent certifiable mail or FedEx or in another manner that would allow us to confirm delivery?
    I could be wrong, but I think it was sent via email and that there is document ion confirming receipt. I think Ghostrider has more information about that.

  20. #20
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    Not me.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MI-copperhead's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

    They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.
    This is ********. These A--hats in Detroit need their asses handed to them, financilly or otherwise. I'm quickly loosing all respect for lawofficers in Detroit.
    "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death !" Patrick Henry

  22. #22
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    So I was wrong then. :-P

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I sent it to Wayne County

    Here it is...





    To:
    sheriffevans@co.wayne.mi.us

    Cc:
    dpfannes@co.wayne.mi.us; dfordham@co.wayne.mi.us; dickers0@co.wayne.mi.us; sgatti@co.wayne.mi.us; KSemak@co.wayne.mi.us; Rwood@co.wayne.mi.us; shall@co.wayne.mi.us; asimenau@co.wayne.mi.us; dnero@co.wayne.mi.us; lcrider@co.wayne.mi.us



    To whom it my concern:

    There will be an Open Carry March today in front of Wayne County Jail 570 Clinton St. Detroit MI48226 on 5-4-2009 at 5:00pm.

    Those attending will be law abiding citizens of Wayne County in response to threats by a member of the Wayne County Sheriff's officethat he wouldarrest for failure to provide I.D. when stopped while engaged in lawful activity.

    FYI: Here is an information pack that Michigan Open CarryInc. sends out to local law enforcement.


    Info pack that we send out goes here Removed to save bandwidth




    Sincerely,



    Douglas K. Holloway

    Member

    Michigan Open CarryInc.



    P.S. If you wish to discuse this matter I can be reached by return e-mail or by cell phone at xxx-xxx-xxxx

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Thanks Doug, I appreciate. Might be of some interest when I talk to the lawyer tomorrow.

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Does anyone know in certainty that the Detoit Police Department was sent one of our informational packets before this incident? If so, was it sent certifiable mail or FedEx or in another manner that would allow us to confirm delivery?
    I sent via email, the MOC LEO info packet over a year ago. It was the old female Chief before she went down with what's his name. I have no Idea what she may have done with the info, but I now have a guess...delete...delete...


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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