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****OC in Detroit TODAY!*****

dougwg

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,443
Location
MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
imported post


Who: M.O.C.
What: Sidewalk March
Where: The corner of Clinton and Beuabian (Downtown Detroit)
Why: Opposition of Tyranny
When: 5-4-2009
5PM-6PM


What to Bring:
Your Sidearm
MSP Legal Updates
printed out (66, 68)
LEO Information packs

Cameras
Video Cameras
Voice Recorders


Origin:
Veritas wrote:
Maybe I'm stirring the pot... but whatever: Last night, I got into discussion with an off duty LEO. Great guy... personable, likable, all that jazz. However he made a comment about my holster (I was at a bar; left the pistol properly secured and stowed in my friends vehicle). He asked if I walk around with my gun on my hip. I affirmed that I normally do. Here is where the 45 minute debate began. I'll spare the details, but the punchline is that he couldn't be MORE wrong about his positions. His contention is that, as a cop, he has authority to stop anyone for any reason and demand ID... "especially" if they're carrying a weapon. His notion was that demanding ID from someone, and arresting them if they fail to produce it, is his lawful duty because carrying a gun is suspicious. However, he could not define exactly what made the person suspicious. I tried to use analogies to help him realize how ridiculous that sounded. I equated stopping a man with a gun to stopping a man wearing a Turban... unwarranted and prejudicial suspicions about the person matter not when they are merely enjoying their Constitutional freedoms.

Anyways... much more was said and discussed; he just wasn't getting it so I decided to end the discussion. However, he left me with a challenge: To "come to his city" while openly carrying and refuse to show ID when stopped. I accepted the challenge. So here's the deal: Monday, between the hours of 5 and 6, outside the county jail on Clinton and Beuabian (Downtown Detroit), I will be walking down the street openly carrying. The LEO works in the building on that day and will be on lunch between those hours and guarantees that an officer will stop me. He further asserts that upon refusing to show ID and answer questions about where I'm coming from or going, that I will be arrested.

I've got a pretty clear calender up until Thursday so I've got the time to fight this if necessary. My friend is driving me (so I don't have to worry about being towed) and will be documenting with a camcorder. I tell you folks here just as a heads up. I'll report back after it's done. I honestly don't expect to be arrested... but if I am, I will make my point in court and hopefully more officers in that city become better informed about the law and civil liberties.
Map: http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG51BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLWJ1dHRvbgRzbGsDbGluaw--#mvt=m&lat=42.336267&lon=-83.043458&zoom=18

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/Legal_Updates_185809_7.pdf

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html
 

EM87

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
986
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
imported post

I would love to join you but it's a 2 1/2 hour drive for me... I can't wait to hear what happens (or what doesn't happen!)
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

TheSzerdi wrote:
Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.
Oh no! Many lawyers have stated they'd defend us if we needed council. I hope the police were clearly wrong, and did something stupid so a lawyer will take the case on commission. But obviously don't give the details out on the web. :uhoh:

I don't know what his rates are, but the one lawyer I can personally recommend as being extremely competent in gun laws is Dean Greenblat. His phone number is 248 644 7520. He is the guy that designed the little yellow sticker you can put on your license to notify the police about being a CPL holder who may be carrying.

I wish I could have been there, but I won't have a running car until my parts get in. I hope that whatever events transpired lead to open carrying in Detroit being understood by police.
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
imported post

Yeah, Thanks for that, I'll contact him. I talked to quite a few people while wandering around and nobody had any problems. Handed out some pamphlets and chatted with folks a bit. Police saw me after a while and that's when things got interesting. Not going to give out details here for now. We'll see how it goes down.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

Another good lawyer, who Mark from the Wild West Academy personally vouches for, is Keith Watson. He lives in Lansing, so I don't know how practical it would be for him to take the case with there being other lawyers who are much closer, but he is apparently extremely pro gun, and also very competent with the law. His phone number is 517-763-3160

I don't know that he'd be any better or worse, but I suppose if you end up trying to get a lawyer on commission, that it would be good to have multiple contacts.
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
imported post

Thanks again. Can't hurt to have a lot of contacts. Especially since I would prefer if I can get them on commission.

On a side note, I'm looking forward to hear from doug and the others. Hopefully things went alright for them.
 

cato

Newbie
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,338
Location
California, USA
imported post

You can say at least sayif you were cited or arrested, and the charge, as that is public info without giving the details. ;)
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
imported post

TheSzerdi wrote:
Too bad I didn't find you guys. Coulda really used the cameras. I need a lawyer.
Please post here when you can, or post a link to anythread you start regarding the matter.
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
imported post

I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

TheSzerdi wrote:
I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?
Call as many lawyer's as you can.

Most of them will give a free telephone consult.

It's usually good to get multiple opinions.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

TheSzerdi wrote:
I was cited with two civil infractions. 1) CPL Failure to disclose 2) Carrying a firearm on the premises of a sports arena / stadium

They confiscated my CPL, my firearm, and my swiss army pocket knife.

I called Dean Greenblat's number and got a machine. Think I should try other lawyers or wait for a call back?

Any of the attornies on the info thread are pro-gun and would give you advice. I suggest you talk to all of them.
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
imported post

Does anyone know in certainty that the Detoit Police Department was sent one of our informational packets before this incident? If so, was it sent certifiable mail or FedEx or in another manner that would allow us to confirm delivery?
 

Veritas

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
662
Location
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
imported post

TheSzerdi wrote:
Does anyone know in certainty that the Detoit Police Department was sent one of our informational packets before this incident? If so, was it sent certifiable mail or FedEx or in another manner that would allow us to confirm delivery?
I could be wrong, but I think it was sent via email and that there is document ion confirming receipt. I think Ghostrider has more information about that.
 
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