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Thread: New AFL law passed

  1. #1
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    As I had stated earlier, the new legislation appeared to make non sporting use of firearms illegal for LEGAL alien residents (don't even get started on illegal residence, it's a red herring). Now that the bill is passed, it is confirmed: if you are an alien resident in the state of Washington, you are denied your right to self defense.

    Source: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faalienfaq.html

    What is the new alien firearms license? This license allows you to use a firearm for hunting and sport shooting if you are a non-immigrant alien who is temporarily living in Washington State.

    Can I apply for a concealed pistol license if I have an alien firearms license? No.
    This situation, frankly, sucks. As a citizen of the USA, I recognize the right to keep and bear arms in defense of self and family as a fundamental human right. Under the new rules, this right is removed for anyone who didn't originate here, but may have come here from other countries.

    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    DOL is wrong. Look at the actual bill, not the DOL website.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    DOL is wrong. Look at the actual bill, not the DOL website.
    I just read the bill and I didn't see anything about a CPP, but it does specifically require that you be either hunting or target shooting in order to get an AFL.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...&year=2009

    It would appear, however, that once you have the AFL you can apply for the CPP. The problem is that there is a section that says that you have to have:

    (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    7 the United States; or
    8 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    9 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    10 that is contiguous with this state.

    So essentially unless you are doing one of those two things AND have documentation, you can't legally possess a firearm, even if you had a CPP.

    I suspect that the lawsuit that the NRA filed against the State of Washington will be refiled.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    The CPL requirement is still the same - an AFL holder CAN apply for a CPL. In order to get an AFL, a hunting license or sporting club membership must be obtained.

    The section you quoted above, Gary, are EXCEPTIONS to the AFL requirement, not requirements for the AFL or for the CPL.
    That was me, not Gray. Thanks for the clarification though. It is so dang hard to read laws these days cause they make them so complicated. Fifteen pages on AFL's when we had a perfectly good law that the state just refused to follow. Why not a simple law change stating that the state must issue AFLs per the previous law?

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    If I read it right it appears that "LEGAL alien residents" no longer need an AFL and are treated just like the rest of us. It's the NON-RESIDENT aliens that still need to get an AFL

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    But a legal, resident alien would no longer need an AFL?

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    Legal resident aliens no longer require an AFL to possess firearms. House and Senate passed the bill and the Gov. sign it into law on 25 April 2009. It takes effect from 26 July 2009.

    Woot!

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...&year=2009

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    NavyLT wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Gray Peterson wrote:
    DOL is wrong. Look at the actual bill, not the DOL website.
    I just read the bill and I didn't see anything about a CPP, but it does specifically require that you be either hunting or target shooting in order to get an AFL.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...&year=2009

    It would appear, however, that once you have the AFL you can apply for the CPP. The problem is that there is a section that says that you have to have:

    (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    7 the United States; or
    8 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    9 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    10 that is contiguous with this state.

    So essentially unless you are doing one of those two things AND have documentation, you can't legally possess a firearm, even if you had a CPP.

    I suspect that the lawsuit that the NRA filed against the State of Washington will be refiled.

    The CPL requirement is still the same - an AFL holder CAN apply for a CPL. In order to get an AFL, a hunting license or sporting club membership must be obtained.

    The section you quoted above, Gary, are EXCEPTIONS to the AFL requirement, not requirements for the AFL or for the CPL.
    NEW SECTION. Sec. 4. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW
    32 to read as follows:
    33 (1) A nonimmigrant alien, who is not a resident of Washington or a
    34 citizen of Canada, may carry or possess any firearm without having
    35 first obtained an alien firearm license
    if the nonimmigrant alien
    36 possesses:
    1 (a) A valid passport and visa showing he or she is in the country
    2 legally;
    3 (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States
    4 department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary
    5 importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and
    6 (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    7 the United States; or
    8 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    9 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    10 that is contiguous with this state.
    11 (2) A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as
    12 he or she possesses:
    13 (a) Valid documentation as required for entry into the United
    14 States;
    15 (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States
    16 department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary
    17 importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and
    18 (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    19 the United States; or
    20 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    21 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    22 that is contiguous with this state.
    23 (3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the
    24 firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the
    25 hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while
    26 on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide
    27 trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles,
    28 pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be
    29 construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first
    30 having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.

    Look at section 4:
    (3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the
    24 firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the
    25 hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while
    26 on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide
    27 trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles,
    28 pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be
    29 construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first
    30 having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.
    You may not possess a firearm for self-defense, under the new law.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  9. #9
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    NavyLT wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Gray Peterson wrote:
    DOL is wrong. Look at the actual bill, not the DOL website.
    I just read the bill and I didn't see anything about a CPP, but it does specifically require that you be either hunting or target shooting in order to get an AFL.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...&year=2009

    It would appear, however, that once you have the AFL you can apply for the CPP. The problem is that there is a section that says that you have to have:

    (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    7 the United States; or
    8 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    9 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    10 that is contiguous with this state.

    So essentially unless you are doing one of those two things AND have documentation, you can't legally possess a firearm, even if you had a CPP.

    I suspect that the lawsuit that the NRA filed against the State of Washington will be refiled.

    The CPL requirement is still the same - an AFL holder CAN apply for a CPL. In order to get an AFL, a hunting license or sporting club membership must be obtained.

    The section you quoted above, Gary, are EXCEPTIONS to the AFL requirement, not requirements for the AFL or for the CPL.
    NEW SECTION. Sec. 4. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW
    32 to read as follows:
    33 (1) A nonimmigrant alien, who is not a resident of Washington or a
    34 citizen of Canada, may carry or possess any firearm without having
    35 first obtained an alien firearm license
    if the nonimmigrant alien
    36 possesses:
    1 (a) A valid passport and visa showing he or she is in the country
    2 legally;
    3 (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States
    4 department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary
    5 importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and
    6 (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    7 the United States; or
    8 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    9 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    10 that is contiguous with this state.
    11 (2) A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as
    12 he or she possesses:
    13 (a) Valid documentation as required for entry into the United
    14 States;
    15 (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States
    16 department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary
    17 importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and
    18 (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of
    19 the United States; or
    20 (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting
    21 event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country
    22 that is contiguous with this state.
    23 (3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the
    24 firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the
    25 hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while
    26 on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide
    27 trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles,
    28 pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be
    29 construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first
    30 having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.

    Look at section 4:
    (3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the
    24 firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the
    25 hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while
    26 on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide
    27 trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles,
    28 pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be
    29 construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first
    30 having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.
    You may not possess a firearm for self-defense, under the new law.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  10. #10
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    NavyLT wrote:
    Again, Tawnos, those are only EXCEPTIONS for non-resident aliens possessing firearms WITHOUT an AFL or a CPL. That has nothing to due with a Washington State Resident alien who has an AFL.

    So the restriction for possessing a gun only for sporting purposes and not for self-defense ONLY applies to aliens who are not Washington State residents who do not have, nor are required to have an AFL.
    Ah, that's better, then. I wonder why the DOL is stating that AFL holders may not get CPLs, then. I blame being in Taiwan on my difficulty reading this section (and its overal level of confused writing >.&lt.

    Thanks

    Next step: how do we get the DOL in line with what the law says?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Tawnos wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    Again, Tawnos, those are only EXCEPTIONS for non-resident aliens possessing firearms WITHOUT an AFL or a CPL. That has nothing to due with a Washington State Resident alien who has an AFL.

    So the restriction for possessing a gun only for sporting purposes and not for self-defense ONLY applies to aliens who are not Washington State residents who do not have, nor are required to have an AFL.
    Ah, that's better, then. I wonder why the DOL is stating that AFL holders may not get CPLs, then. I blame being in Taiwan on my difficulty reading this section (and its overal level of confused writing >.<.

    Thanks

    Next step: how do we get the DOL in line with what the law says?
    The new law has not taken effect yet. DOL is still in compliance until then as they are still not issuing a CPL to a resident or non-resident alien. Once the law takes effect I am sure the website will be changed to reflect it. I would wait until July 26 before taking any action.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Gray is allready working on getting DOL books updated when after 90 days it will be written as a law

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    Manu wrote:
    Gary is allready working on getting DOL books updated when after 90 days it will be written as a law¬*
    Gary?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    Manu wrote:
    Gary is allready working on getting DOL books updated when after 90 days it will be written as a law
    Gary?
    Sorry its Gray "Gray Peterson"

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    Manu wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Manu wrote:
    Gary is allready working on getting DOL books updated when after 90 days it will be written as a law¬*
    Gary?
    Sorry its Gray "Gray Peterson"
    Thats what I thought but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy on a public forum.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  16. #16
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    joeroket wrote:

    Thats what I thought but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy on a public forum.
    No you are not that was just a typo, My mistake

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