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Thread: Carrying Chamber loaded

  1. #1
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    I was listening to Tom Gresham (www.guntalk.com There are downloadable past shows) and I heard one of the callers told him that he (the caller) always had his gun magazine loaded but chamber empty. Tom asked, "what if someone grabs your left arm and you had to take your gun out? now you have an empty gun. Or you had only one arm available fighting with other hand, all you want to do is take your gun and pull the trigger." and also added "always keep the safety on until you ready to shoot."

    I OCed twice so far. Loaded but chamber empty. I do have safety lock on my Ruger SR9. So I have to turn the safety off and rack the gun to be able to shoot. Probably almost all of you right now thinking I might be crazy no to carry my gun chamber loaded. You might be right, but for now I am pretty darn comfortable like that. I dry practice pulling my gun and getting ready to fire, it is about 1 second. I am keep practicing this in our club range as well. Doing it with live ammo is taking bit more time because I really don't want to make any mistakes while I am going for the shoot real bullet (there are people around)

    I really do want to be able to protect myself and probably other people if things happen. I always say "carrying gun is better than not carrying gun" and feel better about it. Again, most of you would think that "you should not carry any weapon if you are not prepare to use it and don't have any idea how to use it", agreed... although no matter what we civilians do, we won't be as good as a solder or policemen which are training daily for any situation. So, I know chamber loaded gun (specially the guns don't have external safety locks) is more chance to have accidents for us, OC/CC regular people.

    I would like to hear you what you guys say about this. Am I alone thinking like this... with that guy on the radio show? I sure hope not so.


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    Your gun as you presently carry it is a useless hunk of plastic and metal, and you may as well not even bother wearing it. Or get an airsoft pistol and wear it if you want to look impressive while OCing. Either one will do about as much good for ya right now.

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    Enroll in handgun classes or better yet try to enroll at Gunsite...

    As someone who has been there, except I've always carried in Condition 1, you need KNOWLEDGE to go with the skill. It *does* make a difference, by far.

    Handgun classes are not "this is how you shoot properly", they are much more going over defense tactics.

    You're in ARIZONA! Enroll at gunsite.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Personally, I think that your carrying a very expensivepaper weight if you don't have around in the chamber. The chances of you even pulling out your handgun is going to be very rare, let alone misfire it when your taking it out for self defence.

    When you do need to use it, you might forget to chamber the round, or you might need that extra second or two you use to chamber the round.


    If you worried about a misfire then get a handgun with a few safety features, to be on the safe side. (A Glock might not be the handgun for you).

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    Carry a double action revolver with the hammer down over an empty chamber, if you're so apprehensive about an ND/AD. Then all you have to do to get it into action is pull the trigger.

    edit grammar

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    Get a DOA automatic. That's the only way I feel comfortable CCing with it pointed at my pecker with a round chambered.

    Just remember when you draw, keep your finger off the trigger until you have a sight picture. This comes naturally if you have an active retention holster with a button, so you might want to look into one of those too.

  7. #7
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    OC/CC 9mm wrote:
    I was listening to Tom Gresham (http://www.guntalk.com There are downloadable past shows) and I heard one of the callers told him that he (the caller) always had his gun magazine loaded but chamber empty. Tom asked, "what if someone grabs your left arm and you had to take your gun out? now you have an empty gun. Or you had only one arm available fighting with other hand, all you want to do is take your gun and pull the trigger." and also added "always keep the safety on until you ready to shoot."

    I OCed twice so far. Loaded but chamber empty. I do have safety lock on my Ruger SR9. So I have to turn the safety off and rack the gun to be able to shoot. Probably almost all of you right now thinking I might be crazy no to carry my gun chamber loaded. You might be right, but for now I am pretty darn comfortable like that. I dry practice pulling my gun and getting ready to fire, it is about 1 second. I am keep practicing this in our club range as well. Doing it with live ammo is taking bit more time because I really don't want to make any mistakes while I am going for the shoot real bullet (there are people around)

    I really do want to be able to protect myself and probably other people if things happen. I always say "carrying gun is better than not carrying gun" and feel better about it. Again, most of you would think that "you should not carry any weapon if you are not prepare to use it and don't have any idea how to use it", agreed... although no matter what we civilians do, we won't be as good as a solder or policemen which are training daily for any situation. So, I know chamber loaded gun (specially the guns don't have external safety locks) is more chance to have accidents for us, OC/CC regular people.

    I would like to hear you what you guys say about this. Am I alone thinking like this... with that guy on the radio show? I sure hope not so.
    Carrying in Condition 3 isa pretty reasonable approach. And it drastically reduces the probability of a ND. It's highly unlikely that that you will ever need to shoot someone within 1 second of the time you become aware of a deadly threat.

    The usual it's unmanly to not have one in the chamber chorus will chime in here, including some really weird stuff (e.g. a gun in Condition 3 is not even loaded, is worthless, etc).

    But it's a personal choice. Dowhat is good for you in your situation. Read up on the arguments for and against. It's pretty easy to Google. And millions of people across the world carry in Condition 3. They do just fine.

    Carry in Condition 3 or Condition 1, whichever is good for you.

    Me, when I carry a semi-auto, it'sin Condition 1.414213562. That means I have 2 rounds in the chamber. For extra preparedness....



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    A gun needs to be ready to be used instantly. There are cases where there is not time to pull the gun out and rack the slide.

    A gun with no bullet in the chamber is as good as a knife brought to a gunfight. Ain't worth nothin'.

    Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Keep one in the chamber and ready to go, always.

    You do not own an expensive metal club, you own and carry a gun. Keep it loaded and ready.

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    HankT wrote:
    Me, when I carry a semi-auto, it's¬*in Condition¬* 1.414213562¬*.¬* That means I have 2 rounds in the chamber. For extra preparedness....
    ORLY??!

    Well I carry ln(e) cartridges in the chamber.

    For real:

    Carry however you like. Do realize that the fear of a cartridge discharging is unfounded. If you are using a reasonably modern firearm, that has been tested and proven in the field, and you keep it in good repair, there is zero chance of it firing unintentionally.

    The only stories I've ever found of people having an actual malfunction causing a ND are with firearms with known safety malfunctions (mostly combloc ones).

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    One of the class subjects is how to rack quickly. I have checked some of the websites and I did see some of them saying "it is ok to carry gun chamber unloaded" although not recommended for quick replies...

    The classes give knowledge and some training... starting from 600 bucks up to a grand or two, for 1 day to 4 or 5 days... I still think it's not like same as regular training such as cops or military, which is daily.

    I probably will change my carrying style from unloaded chamber to loaded chamber sometime in the future (aka from condition 3 to 1). It's like learning how to drive. Take classes, practice and get your driving license... but you still take your time to drive on highways, at least for a while.

    There are times people running to their cars to get their guns and still be able to stop crime or stop before it gets worse. What that means? you may be witnessing a crime or a danger still in development stage which you still could have time to prepare and take position. It doesn't mean everything start and ends less than a second (although it might)


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    While all that rhetoric is nice, I carry condition 3 here in Washington when I have to use a vehicle to go anywhere. While it's useless until I chamber a round I can't draw my gun at a bus stop just to clear the chamber because that WOULD scare the @*#& out of anyone. Until I get my CC permit I'd rather have my gun on me and just eject the mag when I get into a vehicle versus not having it at all.

    Also your point about the military and police is pretty unfounded, they don't train everyday even the infantry and police training varies from department to department usually all that's required is a qualification. The only Police I will trust in a combat scenario 100% of the time is SWAT.

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    WellOC/CC if you are not comfortable with carrying a round chambered then don't do it, but it is at your perile. Though if you must carry that wayI would practice loading with one arm as well.

    My single arm, strong side reloading/malfunction clearing drill, is to simply rack the slide by hooking the rear sight on my pants, either my belt or pants pocket and pushing the gun down, this will reliably cycle and load/reload or clear misfire or stove piped casing.

    But if your gun has a thin steel rear sight it will probably rip your pocket after a few practices, so the belt may fair better with this drill. If the gun has a nice thick not so sharp rear sight your pants and belt should survive plenty of practices.

    This drill will also serve for the "what if a bad guy grabs my other arm" situation also. But if I were you,I would go for a DAO automatic, it's what I carry. The trigger pull is not as fast as a sigle action, but once you practice, your shots will be fast enough.

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    When I got my Ohio CHL last year, I carried unchambered the first few times, just to make sure that there wouldn't be a problem with the guns and holsters I used. After I assured myself that safeties weren't getting swiped off or triggers pulled, I switched over to loaded chambers and never looked back. Things to take into consideration:

    1. ALWAYS use a holster, and one which covers the trigger guard. Especially with Glocks, the gun is NOT going to go off without the trigger being pulled. It's a gun, not the evil sword "Stormbringer". It has no will of its own. Make sure that the holster you use works for YOU. My first IWB for my Glock 19 was a cheap Bianchi clip on that didn't have a reinforced mouth. I had to struggle so hard to get the gun into the holster that I was afraid I might accidentally pull the trigger fooling with it. I tossed the Bianchi in a drawer and bought a Don Hume 715M. It has a reinforced mouth, making it safe and easy to holster the gun. In addition, it was actually cheaper than the Bianchi.

    2. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard. You can keep your trigger finger alongside the frame until you die of old age and the gun's not going off. The trigger is for actuating the firing mechanism and nothing else. It's not a place to rest your finger. Back when I worked for a cleared NASA contractor in the '90s, a contract guard at NASA Lewis shot himself while on the Fairview Park police range. How? He tried to holster his Glock 17 with his finger on the trigger.

    Carry around the house with an empty chamber, but ready to fire as if the gun were loaded. If no safeties are disengaged or triggers pulled after a day or two, it's not going to happen with a round chambered.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    I go empty chamber too... just my thing



    somewhere here one of the thousands of times this has been brought up someone said something to the effect of

    "a gun in hand and shells in your sock beats a gun at home"

    I kinda liked that. The closer your pistol is to ready the better, but near you is the most important.

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    www.guntalk.tv. Check out the free videos. While browsing, check out the video called "Carrying a Concealed Loaded Gun"

    There are lots of views and I think (as far as I can tell so far) guns should be carried loaded and ready to go (agreed, no disagreement there). Although, person should be comfortable doing it so. Remember, not everyone start carrying guns with long time experience. I do believe there should be at least some period of time for the less-experienced people to carry gun chamber unloaded (if it's a revolver, that's another story. I personally like autoloader better myself)


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    I carry most 1911's in Condition One (Cocked and locked). I also prefer my thumb-break holster for them--which has a hammer-block strap on it.

    I carry my Beretta 92FS with a round in the chamber, hammer down. Whether I set the safety "on" or "off" depends on the conditions. For competition, I carry it off. For "Street" carry I carry it on.

    I have no qualms about striker-fired semi-autos (glocks, etc.), with or without external safetys. Why? Simple. The same folks that quibble about them have no second thought about carrying a snub-nose dao revolver in a pocket holster...and frankly, any "standard" double-action revolver has fewer saftey mechanisms than striker-fired semi-autos do.

    I carry my modern double-action revolvers with a full cylinder. I do have a couple of ancient .22's that aren't drop-safe, which I carry with the hammer on a dead cylinder.

    That being said, I will tell you that I have one 1911 that I don't like to carry condition-one. So I don't.

    I don't fault anyone who prefers to carry a 1911 in condition three. There exist a number of techniques to go from empty-chamber to ready-to-fire safely and quickly.

    At the end of the day, I'm more concerned that you have a gun than I am how you prefer to carry it, within reason. The old line about your carry peice being comforting, if not comfortable, applies here--if you carry the gun in a condition that comforts you, rather than a condition that worries you, you're much better off, and so am I.

    So I won't try to tell *anyone* what's right for them. I'll be glad to to tell you what is right for *me* and remind you that it's often conditional. I respect and support a decision to do differently than I do, especially if it's a rational decision to do different than I do.

    Of course, I'll wrap my above novel with the "within reason" and "within design specifications" quotes--I can't support you carrying a double-action revolver cocked and holstered, for example--that would be absurd, as well as dangerous. But you knew that.

    As always, my 2 cents worth is offered free of charge. And is probably worth even less than you paid for it.



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    OC/CC 9mm wrote:
    One of the class subjects is how to rack quickly.
    Well, that's great as long as you have two good hands, each attached to an arm that works normally. Ever try to rack a slide with a sore arm, let alone a busted one? You could also train to rack a slide with one hand, although it seems to me that time wouldbe better spent learning how to safely carry a loaded weapon.

    It's my opinion carrying (CC or OC)unloaded is a needlessly dangerous thing to do.

    This may be apocryphal in origin, but makes the point nicely:
    A citizen noted the hammer back on the 1911 carried in the waist band by Charlie Miller, Texas Ranger. The Citizen asks, "Isn't That Dangerous?" Charley replied, " I wouldn't carry the son of a bitch if it wasn't dangerous."

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    The best safety is between your ears. Keep your booger hooker off the bang switch until you want to shoot for real.

    Your weak hand/arm is for defense untill you can get your weaponinto action.Your weak hand/arm isexpendable. Don't tie it up trying to load your weapon.

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    I carried a semi-auto with an empty chamber for first few weeks after I started carrying, then switched to a revolver. I was carrying revolver fully loadedmostly because itseemed too dangerous to carry only 4 rounds (if I had to have an empty one under the hammer) but also a simplier and more exposedmechanism of the revolver made me feel better about it. Then I bought an XD and went straight to carrying it with one in the pipe and was comfortable enough even with no manual safeties.

    That all sounds like a normal transition process/getting used to thingexcept for the last step. I went on vacation for 2 weeks back home to a very anti-gun place where all I could carry was 2 cans of pepper spray and when I came back...I started carrying the same very XD with an empty chamber. Am I freaking weird? Anyone else had a reverse transition like that?

    P.S. My biggest fear with AD is not really related to being outside as even if it was to fire by itself (I know it doesn't really happen, but I'm paranoid), it will most likely either go straight into the ground or ricochet into the sky. What I'm paranoid about is an AD at home, when I'm say upstairs and my family is downstairs and a bullet goes through the floor and hurts someone. Again, that only based on a fear of highly unrealistic situation where gun goes off by itself. Other than that, I'm not too worried - I have a pretty good trigger discipline.

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    Chaingun81 wrote:
    P.S. My biggest fear with AD is not really related to being outside as even if it was to fire by itself (I know it doesn't really happen, but I'm paranoid), it will most likely either go straight into the ground or ricochet into the sky. What I'm paranoid about is an AD at home, when I'm say upstairs and my family is downstairs and a bullet goes through the floor and hurts someone. Again, that only based on a fear of highly unrealistic situation where gun goes off by itself. Other than that, I'm not too worried - I have a pretty good trigger discipline.
    In my opinion, this is another education issue. If the anti-gun crowd has any legitimate beef it is with irresponsible gun owners who make available a loaded weapon to those not adequately trained to handle a weapon. That's a problem easily fixed and avoided.

    As for a gun that "goes off by itself" the Brady Bunch claims such an animal exists around every corner, but, frankly, I don't believe them.

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    I have a Hungarian AP-7 that I OC or CC depending on mood/weather/location/etc.

    When I started carrying, it was with an empty chamber, and safety off, so I only had to draw/rack/fire. Now I'm more comfortable with carrying on a daily basis, and always have one in the chamber.

    The hammer stays down, which if you've ever fired an AP-7 you know the DA trigger pull is almost a safety feature itself at nearly 20lbs. and depending on my surroundings the safety is either on or off.

    I tend to agree with others who have said that at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference, as long as you can safely and quickly ready your weapon if the situation calls for it.

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    Although I heard about everyone saying "gun should be what gun should be, loaded and ready to fire", I also respect "personal preferences", as many of you said here.

    I can't give advice; I am not an experienced shooter but a "first timer". Since I grew up with how "deadly and dangerous" guns are, I am showing "some" guts to get rid of my "AD" fear... slowly. I must be careful. I have very valuable people at home that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happens to them (this is the fear which is coming from the past). So, I am going to practice much more (dry/wet), if I find a job and can afford, I will attend trainings (which one CCW class is coming up that I fortunately paid while I had a job) and when I am ready, I will load the chamber and OC/CC daily. It should become normal to me after a while.


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    OC/CC 9mm wrote:
    Although I heard about everyone saying "gun should be what gun should be, loaded and ready to fire", I also respect "personal preferences", as many of you said here.

    I can't give advice; I am not an experienced shooter but a "first timer". Since I grew up with how "deadly and dangerous" guns are, I am showing "some" guts to get rid of my "AD" fear... slowly. I must be careful. I have very valuable people at home that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happens to them (this is the fear which is coming from the past). So, I am going to practice much more (dry/wet), if I find a job and can afford, I will attend trainings (which one CCW class is coming up that I fortunately paid while I had a job) and when I am ready, I will load the chamber and OC/CC daily. It should become normal to me after a while.

    Years ago I started out with a full size 1911 and I carried for several weeks until that fear of the big bang was over. Now, I carry a Glock 21 and don't even think about that fear anymore. As long as you are using a quality holster that properly fits your pistol and you're following the basic safety rules of firearms, there's not much to worry about.

    There are times when Idecide to carry my 1911 and I start out in condition 1 (cocked & locked) and it's not long until the external safety (thumb safety) becomes disengaged while moving around, bending over, etc. I don't concern myself with this because two conditions must be met for it to go bang; 1) Grip Safety must be depressed, and 2) Depress trigger.

    You need to do exactly what makes you feel comfortable/confidentand allow yourself time to adjust, regardless what othersmay tell you.

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    Before I reply may I give You a short bit about my experience so I can help You with the "reality" of gun carrying and those who would wish to do You harm.

    *20+ years of CC ( *illegal CC in Calif ) 2 years of licenced legal CC in OR and now 1 year of "full time" OC.

    Involved in 1 full on gun fight, resulting in 2 dead men from the end of my barrel.

    Shot 3 separate times in 20 years, once serious with grevous life threatening and obvious debilitating injuries, the other 2 times just grazing leaving small entry & exit wounds not needing ER attention.

    Shot at by gang members and other such low lifes about 5 times in 46 years ( that I can remember ).

    Stabbed once, with moderatly servere injury.

    Attacked with bats, pipes, broken bottles and other had held junk a "few" times, no injuries ( ran away ).

    To many fist fights to remember.

    Beaten up & kicked up by 3 gang members to the point of un able to eat solid food for many days ( facial swelling)

    Hit by rock thrown at me 1 time, got bell rung hard, hospitalized suffered sub dural hematoma.

    Had guns drawn against me while I was not armed ( before I was an adult ) and put up to my face 2 times that I remember.

    Drawn down on felony criminals and gang members 4 times ( that I can remember.)

    Witnessed 2 drive by's with the result of both victims being killed right in fromt of me.


    This was all southern California mixed gang low inciome neighbroohood stuff may years ago.


    Now this is what I know through raw experience, on top of what I read from guys like Massad Ayoob & Clint Smith who have made a littral science out of guns, shootings, assaults, self defence, CQB and such.


    G Dam It -----> Keep a round chambered and ready !!!.:X I am saying this as a friend.

    You got 2 seconds or less, thats it before that huge steriod pumped, 6ft 4" 260 lb convicted felon with all the gun shot & knife wounds who is out on parole for multiple deadly assualts who just snorted an 8ball of Meth and is pissed because his hooker girlfriend just left him before he ran into you in a fender bender at the intersection at 10 pm on a loanly dark street. TWO SECONDS.

    "and: even if you get on target in 2 seconds the 1,2 ,3 ,4 or more shots mite not ven hit him / or even stop him in his tracks !!!

    Go watch any hunting videos on youtube of Grizzly bear and Cape Buffalo they dont always go down in one shot.

    These felons are hyper adrenalized . You mix Meth and adrenaline, and you got a zombie monster.

    If you are spiritual you will pick up a "Demonic presence" in such felons and this "entity" will take over and enraged human and render them super human, almost UN-killable untill the head / brain is shot out, or they bleed out.


    Massad Ayoob has proven that a young fit big tuff felon can travel 22 ft in 2 to 3 seconds and football tackle / smash you into the ground , rendering you knocked out unconsciouse from the concusion.

    Draw and fire and find out that only practiced seasoned gun slingers and draw from under shirt & jacket and get off a shot in under 2 seconds, but only from practice practice practice.


    If you dont feel competent & comfortable enough then GET compitent !!!

    1) Take a course by Clint Smith or some one like him.

    2) Get a 6 shooter with a transfer bar saftey, or a DOA semi, like another guy's already said before me.

    3) Shoot, shoot and shoot and shoot more, shoot and move, shoot and run, jump behind stuff and shoot, shot from on the ground on your back, shoot moving in all driections.

    4) Get a holster rig and wear it in the same place every time all the time.

    5) Get fake snap caps and draw, draw every day from different clothing styles.

    5) Get a Crimson Trace Lazer and Light attachment., practice on low light ( criminals & Demonics thrive low light.

    6) Get your mind in gear becaome Situationaly Awair, even if you have to meditate like I do to get out of your head and into the "Now" were you can become awari, truly awair, even if your body is old and out of shape, become awair of what is and who is around you and do NOT ever be suprized when a freak comes out of nowere on a sunny beautiful day and attempts to assault you.

    7) Trust You inner gut, it is the loud speaker for your higher intuition, if your wordless gut feeling comes on then it is telling you that the smiling guy over there is a bad guy or that you are in the wrong place Toto.

    8) Get in shape , carry a can of pepper / tear gas spray, when the gun fails or breaks or get tasken from you you will be able to fight.

    9) Be peaceful, check your ego and your fears, balance yourself between fear and want to get involved.

    10 ) Know the local laws, read Massab Ayood, and go thru scenarios in your mind of what, when, if, how and why you should or should not draw and or kill.

    If You dont get compitent that you are just a "gun donor" for the next felon you meet.

    I had tp learn the hard way ( school for dummies )

    Hope that helps,









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    Carry how you like, butHandguns aremade to be carried SAFELY in Condition 1 just so you know.



    All handguns have to have the trigger pulled to fire. And some even have Multiple Safeties that you have to engage to even pull the trigger.



    Proper training and more experience will eventually lead you carry in Condition 1 comfortably. Howeverthat makes me happy, b/c I wouldn't won't someone who isnervous already, carrying in condition 1 to begin with.











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