Carrying Chamber loaded

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I have a Hungarian AP-7 that I OC or CC depending on mood/weather/location/etc.

When I started carrying, it was with an empty chamber, and safety off, so I only had to draw/rack/fire. Now I'm more comfortable with carrying on a daily basis, and always have one in the chamber.

The hammer stays down, which if you've ever fired an AP-7 you know the DA trigger pull is almost a safety feature itself at nearly 20lbs. and depending on my surroundings the safety is either on or off.

I tend to agree with others who have said that at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference, as long as you can safely and quickly ready your weapon if the situation calls for it.

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Although I heard about everyone saying "gun should be what gun should be, loaded and ready to fire", I also respect "personal preferences", as many of you said here.

I can't give advice; I am not an experienced shooter but a "first timer". Since I grew up with how "deadly and dangerous" guns are, I am showing "some" guts to get rid of my "AD" fear... slowly. I must be careful. I have very valuable people at home that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happens to them (this is the fear which is coming from the past). So, I am going to practice much more (dry/wet), if I find a job and can afford, I will attend trainings (which one CCW class is coming up that I fortunately paid while I had a job) and when I am ready, I will load the chamber and OC/CC daily. It should become normal to me after a while.

:dude:

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OC/CC 9mm wrote:

Although I heard about everyone saying "gun should be what gun should be, loaded and ready to fire", I also respect "personal preferences", as many of you said here.

I can't give advice; I am not an experienced shooter but a "first timer". Since I grew up with how "deadly and dangerous" guns are, I am showing "some" guts to get rid of my "AD" fear... slowly. I must be careful. I have very valuable people at home that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happens to them (this is the fear which is coming from the past). So, I am going to practice much more (dry/wet), if I find a job and can afford, I will attend trainings (which one CCW class is coming up that I fortunately paid while I had a job) and when I am ready, I will load the chamber and OC/CC daily. It should become normal to me after a while.

:dude:

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Years ago I started out with a full size 1911 and I carried for several weeks until that fear of the big bang was over. Now, I carry a Glock 21 and don't even think about that fear anymore. As long as you are using a quality holster that properly fits your pistol and you're following the basic safety rules of firearms, there's not much to worry about.

There are times when Idecide to carry my 1911 and I start out in condition 1 (cocked & locked) and it's not long until the external safety (thumb safety) becomes disengaged while moving around, bending over, etc. I don't concern myself with this because two conditions must be met for it to go bang; 1) Grip Safety must be depressed, and 2) Depress trigger.

You need to do exactly what makes you feel comfortable/confidentand allow yourself time to adjust, regardless what othersmay tell you.

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Before I reply may I give You a short bit about my experience so I can help You with the "reality" of gun carrying and those who would wish to do You harm.

*20+ years of CC ( *illegal CC in Calif ) 2 years of licenced legal CC in OR and now 1 year of "full time" OC.

Involved in 1 full on gun fight, resulting in 2 dead men from the end of my barrel.

Shot 3 separate times in 20 years, once serious with grevous life threatening and obvious debilitating injuries, the other 2 times just grazing leaving small entry & exit wounds not needing ER attention.

Shot at by gang members and other such low lifes about 5 times in 46 years ( that I can remember ).

Stabbed once, with moderatly servere injury.

Attacked with bats, pipes, broken bottles and other had held junk a "few" times, no injuries ( ran away ).

To many fist fights to remember.

Beaten up & kicked up by 3 gang members to the point of un able to eat solid food for many days ( facial swelling)

Hit by rock thrown at me 1 time, got bell rung hard, hospitalized suffered sub dural hematoma.

Had guns drawn against me while I was not armed ( before I was an adult ) and put up to my face 2 times that I remember.

Drawn down on felony criminals and gang members 4 times ( that I can remember.)

Witnessed 2 drive by's with the result of both victims being killed right in fromt of me.


This was all southern California mixed gang low inciome neighbroohood stuff may years ago.


Now this is what I know through raw experience, on top of what I read from guys like Massad Ayoob & Clint Smith who have made a littral science out of guns, shootings, assaults, self defence, CQB and such.


G Dam It -----> Keep a round chambered and ready !!!.:X I am saying this as a friend.

You got 2 seconds or less, thats it before that huge steriod pumped, 6ft 4" 260 lb convicted felon with all the gun shot & knife wounds who is out on parole for multiple deadly assualts who just snorted an 8ball of Meth and is pissed because his hooker girlfriend just left him before he ran into you in a fender bender at the intersection at 10 pm on a loanly dark street. TWO SECONDS.

"and: even if you get on target in 2 seconds the 1,2 ,3 ,4 or more shots mite not ven hit him / or even stop him in his tracks !!!

Go watch any hunting videos on youtube of Grizzly bear and Cape Buffalo they dont always go down in one shot.

These felons are hyper adrenalized . You mix Meth and adrenaline, and you got a zombie monster.

If you are spiritual you will pick up a "Demonic presence" in such felons and this "entity" will take over and enraged human and render them super human, almost UN-killable untill the head / brain is shot out, or they bleed out.


Massad Ayoob has proven that a young fit big tuff felon can travel 22 ft in 2 to 3 seconds and football tackle / smash you into the ground , rendering you knocked out unconsciouse from the concusion.

Draw and fire and find out that only practiced seasoned gun slingers and draw from under shirt & jacket and get off a shot in under 2 seconds, but only from practice practice practice.


If you dont feel competent & comfortable enough then GET compitent !!!

1) Take a course by Clint Smith or some one like him.

2) Get a 6 shooter with a transfer bar saftey, or a DOA semi, like another guy's already said before me.

3) Shoot, shoot and shoot and shoot more, shoot and move, shoot and run, jump behind stuff and shoot, shot from on the ground on your back, shoot moving in all driections.

4) Get a holster rig and wear it in the same place every time all the time.

5) Get fake snap caps and draw, draw every day from different clothing styles.

5) Get a Crimson Trace Lazer and Light attachment., practice on low light ( criminals & Demonics thrive low light.

6) Get your mind in gear becaome Situationaly Awair, even if you have to meditate like I do to get out of your head and into the "Now" were you can become awari, truly awair, even if your body is old and out of shape, become awair of what is and who is around you and do NOT ever be suprized when a freak comes out of nowere on a sunny beautiful day and attempts to assault you.

7) Trust You inner gut, it is the loud speaker for your higher intuition, if your wordless gut feeling comes on then it is telling you that the smiling guy over there is a bad guy or that you are in the wrong place Toto.

8) Get in shape , carry a can of pepper / tear gas spray, when the gun fails or breaks or get tasken from you you will be able to fight.

9) Be peaceful, check your ego and your fears, balance yourself between fear and want to get involved.

10 ) Know the local laws, read Massab Ayood, and go thru scenarios in your mind of what, when, if, how and why you should or should not draw and or kill.

If You dont get compitent that you are just a "gun donor" for the next felon you meet.

I had tp learn the hard way ( school for dummies )

Hope that helps,

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Carry how you like, butHandguns aremade to be carried SAFELY in Condition 1 just so you know.



All handguns have to have the trigger pulled to fire. And some even have Multiple Safeties that you have to engage to even pull the trigger.



Proper training and more experience will eventually lead you carry in Condition 1 comfortably. Howeverthat makes me happy, b/c I wouldn't won't someone who isnervous already, carrying in condition 1 to begin with.

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GOOD LORD Steve! ... How did you survive?

Stuff happened to you isenough to scare the crap out of people. I hardly have few fights when I was younger and stupider. Never had a gunfight or saw one. I am not tough as I look(!)although it helps. I OC to protect myself and my family and others if necessary.Probably the places I've been or friends I had so far were just too close to the surface, deep anddark places like you were in have much active(!) life styles.

Training and practice is great.If anyone could afford them or have opportunity to do it even for free, I say go for it. I am too looking forward to practice more and maybe train myself some place like "front sight" or "thunder ranch" (that would be super if I could). As Clint says all the time "you practice not to use your experiences" (or something like that), to avoid the fight. Drawing yourgun is the LAST thing you should do. Drawingyourgun out not onlycould killsomeone butalso is a huge headache forlegal stuff that you probably don't deserve, even if you don't fire a shot.

If I train, I train myself not only to draw and act fast but to avoid anything up to that point. Just because I carry gun, shouldn't make me pull it as myfirst option (I know it might be the case in some situations)

Thanks for the advices man, and I don't think I ever seen anybody lucky yourself surviving form that kind of life that long.

:dude:

PS: My spelling and grammars are not perfect. I am sorry if I give your eyes pain while trying to read my posts(!), but, that's the best I can do

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OC/CC 9mm wrote:

Training and practice is great.If anyone could afford them or have opportunity to do it

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It's easy with a Walther P22. Cheap Ammo.

I fire it a whole lot more than my XDM. You still get the practice of having a loaded firearm in your hands and shooting it all while practicing safe shooting.

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OC/CC 9mm wrote:

GOOD LORD Steve! ... How did you survive?

Stuff happened to you isenough to scare the crap out of people. I hardly have few fights when I was younger and stupider. Never had a gunfight or saw one. I am not tough as I look(!)although it helps. I OC to protect myself and my family and others if necessary.Probably the places I've been or friends I had so far were just too close to the surface, deep anddark places like you were in have much active(!) life styles.

Training and practice is great.If anyone could afford them or have opportunity to do it even for free, I say go for it. I am too looking forward to practice more and maybe train myself some place like "front sight" or "thunder ranch" (that would be super if I could). As Clint says all the time "you practice not to use your experiences" (or something like that), to avoid the fight. Drawing yourgun is the LAST thing you should do. Drawingyourgun out not onlycould killsomeone butalso is a huge headache forlegal stuff that you probably don't deserve, even if you don't fire a shot.

If I train, I train myself not only to draw and act fast but to avoid anything up to that point. Just because I carry gun, shouldn't make me pull it as myfirst option (I know it might be the case in some situations)

Thanks for the advices man, and I don't think I ever seen anybody lucky yourself surviving form that kind of life that long.

:dude:

PS: My spelling and grammars are not perfect. I am sorry if I give your eyes pain while trying to read my posts(!), but, that's the best I can do

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MY REPLY: The only thing I can think of is God, God don't want me to die quite yet.

Im not tuff in a fighter tuff guy way , I dont have size or strength to just knock the crap out of anyone, but I am tuff in a "survivor" type way.

There is something about "consciousness" that springs to life in huge stress that will enable you to go thru horrific stuff and come out the other end, its like God is taking over and looking out of your eyes and will fight using your hands or your gun for you just because He loves you in spite of your lousy self, that all I can say about that.

I was NOT brave, just a mix of stupid and angry, angry that my dad abandoned me, I got abused by a couple step dads and the Marine Core would not take me at 18 because of injuries sustained from childhood.

I was a mixture of good and bad , not all the way good and not all bad, without a dam care in the world if I get killed.

I never actively went out to hurt anyone I was not a killer or a criminal sadist or any such thing as that.

I lived in a mixed neighborhood I never looked at people because of their skin, I befriended Mexican / Latino gang members, Black Gang Members, Samoan gang members, White Bikers (I fit into the biker set as a white guy & road a Harley ), I also befriended Homosexuals and Lesbians.

I also hung with street kid's, stoner's aka drug dealers, musicians too as I was a heavy metal drummer & singer and hung with hookers and all sorts of lost broken people.

So were every were I went there was angry lost people , suicidal people of all races ready to fight and or kill over practically nothing.

If you get 2 people together who are bitter and resentful about not having a family and who bought the lie that its the "other" guys fault you will have an instant fight.

Not caring if you die is not bravery its just a form of subtle unseen and potential suicide to get off the planet because life sucks and no one cares. it mimics true bravery, tome true bravery is an integration of physical "and" moral bravery, brave enough to stand up against liberals in politics, standing up against illogical emotional women, against criminals, brave enough to sit still in a room and look long and hard at yourself on the inside, brave enough to pre-meditate an act of sacrifice such as our military men do all time, you put all that together and you have true bravery not just a compensated bravado want to die.

Your typical gang member is an angry teen who only has an angry abandoned mother who's dad ran away. and now he just doesn't care he is actually scared he hyper compensates by acting tuff to the point of suicide, he ends up being a follower, all gang members are actually weak followers, but none the less he is extremely dangerous and will jump you in an instant before you can rack the slide let alone brake leather.

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One other "What-if..." that hasn't yet been mentioned as a reason to carry chambered:



We could find ourselves in a situation where it becomes prudent to get the gun ready to go, but not shoot (yet, anyhow). One scenario that comes to mind is arriving home, getting several feet inside the door, and hear noises in the next room that indicate with certainty that one or more intruders are there,also it sounds like a loved oneis in there with them, and things are not going well.

Ever try to rack a semiauto slide quietly? Only possible way is s-l-o-w-l-y, which isalmost guaranteed to chokean otherwise reliable handgun.

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Y'know, Steve, that's part of the reason I refuse to ever go into Kalifornia, the laws there suck and the gang krap makes me furious. Ahhnold should set up a bounty on those low-lifes and maybe things will calm down there.

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OC/CC 9mm wrote:

I was listening to Tom Gresham (http://www.guntalk.com There are downloadable past shows) and I heard one of the callers told him that he (the caller) always had his gun magazine loaded but chamber empty. Tom asked, "what if someone grabs your left arm and you had to take your gun out? now you have an empty gun. Or you had only one arm available fighting with other hand, all you want to do is take your gun and pull the trigger." and also added "always keep the safety on until you ready to shoot."

I OCed twice so far. Loaded but chamber empty. I do have safety lock on my Ruger SR9. So I have to turn the safety off and rack the gun to be able to shoot. Probably almost all of you right now thinking I might be crazy no to carry my gun chamber loaded. You might be right, but for now I am pretty darn comfortable like that. I dry practice pulling my gun and getting ready to fire, it is about 1 second. I am keep practicing this in our club range as well. Doing it with live ammo is taking bit more time because I really don't want to make any mistakes while I am going for the shoot real bullet (there are people around)

I really do want to be able to protect myself and probably other people if things happen. I always say "carrying gun is better than not carrying gun" and feel better about it. Again, most of you would think that "you should not carry any weapon if you are not prepare to use it and don't have any idea how to use it", agreed... although no matter what we civilians do, we won't be as good as a solder or policemen which are training daily for any situation. So, I know chamber loaded gun (specially the guns don't have external safety locks) is more chance to have accidents for us, OC/CC regular people.

I would like to hear you what you guys say about this. Am I alone thinking like this... with that guy on the radio show? I sure hope not so.

:dude:

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I carry hot and ready. Always.

I also train regularly. That's all you need to do.

You've carried twice. That's a great start! You just don't have the confidence that regular training over a couple/few years fosters. I very much appreciate your caution, and for you a blank chamber is the right choice if that's your comfort level.

You'll move up to a hot chamber when you're ready, and not until - and don't let anyone talk you into it before you're ready. I applaud your level thinking and caution at this point.

Just keep training. Take classes. Hit the range at least twice a month.

Nobody was born with firearms skills, and I've seen a LOT of people who, IMO, should leave it home in the night stand drawer. If they ever had to draw in my defense I'd worry about my OWN safety!

You are not one of them. You're going to be great. Just keep training and test your skills, and the confidence will take care of itself.

Thank you so much for taking this seriously. I'd fight by your side any day.

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Major Edit : because it wandered off the topic of chamber loaded carry

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In Utah (unless you have a CCP) you don't have a choice. It's chamber empty or not at all.

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:banghead: (Double post withdrawn)

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I think the argument for "what it should be is very clear." Locked and loaded, condition one and your hand on the grip. Just kidding on the last part. The OP understands this and I think anyone reading this thread will definitely come to that conclusion. I don't think that's not the argument. It's a matter of comfort level.

One part many of us forget for newbie or folks somewhat new to open carry or even concealed carry is that it's all a matter of comfort level for the individual. Yes, if you carry it should be in condition one for your particular gun style and function. But for those that are not comfortable I would rather them to carry in whatever manner they feel comfortable with until they "adjust." With experience and getting comfortable brings wisdom and eventually (maybe) to carry in condition one.

Bottomline: for stressful situations you will default to what comes natural to you. Whatever condition you carry you must practice that way and be comfortable. Meaing if you have the safety on or round chambered or whatever.

For the new OC/CC folks out there - do know that we all started somewhere. Some will automatically go to condition one, others may opt for 2 or 3 or just even carry an unloaded gun. It's all a progression.

The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun. How and what can be argued from here to eternity. Some would say they wouldn't carry a .22 - well let me place 10 rounds of 22 to the face and see how much you would like to discuss that issue. There are many arguments to almost any scenario - and for goodness sake there are a lot of scenarios. No two shootings will ever be the same. There are way too many factors.

I would rather have you carry all the time, in whatever mode you feel comfortable with than, not carry because you think "someone else" may look down on you for not carrying in condition one.

If everyone would carry (OC/CC) I believe our society would be a very "friendly" one to live for the law abiding citizens of this great land.

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MuellerBadener wrote:

In Utah (unless you have a CCP) you don't have a choice. It's chamber empty or not at all.

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Whenever I read this, I think of the irony of all committed"Condition 1 is the only manly way to carry a 1911/a gun without one in the pipe is a hunk o junk" guys in Utah who don't have a CCP having to eat their words and carry as they can.

I don't know whythat seemsso cool to me but it does.

Whenever one of thoseOK toOC with one in the pipe? threads comes along, I always look to see if anyone posts from Utah. But they never do...

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HankT wrote:

MuellerBadener wrote:

In Utah (unless you have a CCP) you don't have a choice. It's chamber empty or not at all.

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Whenever I read this, I think of the irony of all committed"Condition 1 is the only manly way to carry a 1911/a gun without one in the pipe is a hunk o junk" guys in Utah who don't have a CCP having to eat their words and carry as they can.

I don't know whythat seemsso cool to me but it does.

Whenever one of thoseOK toOC with one in the pipe? threads comes along, I always look to see if anyone posts from Utah. But they never do...

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Better an empty chamber than an empty holster any day!Ninety- ninetimes out of a hundred the "Hunk of Junk" arguemant is invalid. Use your head and pay attention to your surroundings, and you'll have time to rack the slide before the SHTF. If not, throw the damned thing at 'em!

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Today I OCed with condition one. Went to Scottsdale Gun club and practiced "turning the safety off with my thumb and shoot". Obviously it's much faster than racking the gun. I was there about one hour. I practiced pulling the gun and turning the safety off "as fast as I can" but I did take my time shooting the targets... Once or twice I tried pulling the gun and shooting a couple of rounds fast altogether, but bullets didn't go to the places I wanted... I will slowly close the gap with more practice.

I shot 3 rounds each time (slowly) from 30 feet (my norm). Each time, I turned the safety on and put the gun into the holster. This worked out pretty well. Not so boring and didn't use tons of ammo

When I came home, I just had to make sure to empty the magazine, the chamber and put the gun away totally unloaded. There is a magazine somewhere in the house only me and my wife know, which has hollow-point rounds in it. It takes about 5 seconds to load and rack the gun. The gun stays "safety off" all the time, not loaded. If we go out and leave my son alone or if we all go out, I lock the gun with its padlock.

Although it took little time for me to start OCing condition one, I suggest anyone who is new to this to take time, get used to the gun and OCing. Be comfortable with yourself and with the gun before start carrying chamber loaded. It is very important that your mind is not with your hip but with your surroundings (I think I heard that from somewhere).

I will give the "new driver" sample again: drive on the back roads as long as you need until you are ready to take the highways.

:dude:

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I always have one chambered (unless i'm cleaning it of course).it'd be an expensive club if i was unable to rake the slide when needed.

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oldkim wrote:

I think the argument for "what it should be is very clear." Locked and loaded, condition one and your hand on the grip. Just kidding on the last part. The OP understands this and I think anyone reading this thread will definitely come to that conclusion. I don't think that's not the argument. It's a matter of comfort level.

One part many of us forget for newbie or folks somewhat new to open carry or even concealed carry is that it's all a matter of comfort level for the individual. Yes, if you carry it should be in condition one for your particular gun style and function. But for those that are not comfortable I would rather them to carry in whatever manner they feel comfortable with until they "adjust." With experience and getting comfortable brings wisdom and eventually (maybe) to carry in condition one.

Bottomline: for stressful situations you will default to what comes natural to you. Whatever condition you carry you must practice that way and be comfortable. Meaing if you have the safety on or round chambered or whatever.

For the new OC/CC folks out there - do know that we all started somewhere. Some will automatically go to condition one, others may opt for 2 or 3 or just even carry an unloaded gun. It's all a progression.

The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun. How and what can be argued from here to eternity. Some would say they wouldn't carry a .22 - well let me place 10 rounds of 22 to the face and see how much you would like to discuss that issue. There are many arguments to almost any scenario - and for goodness sake there are a lot of scenarios. No two shootings will ever be the same. There are way too many factors.

I would rather have you carry all the time, in whatever mode you feel comfortable with than, not carry because you think "someone else" may look down on you for not carrying in condition one.

If everyone would carry (OC/CC) I believe our society would be a very "friendly" one to live for the law abiding citizens of this great land.

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Excellent post! Thank you so much!