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Wearing a body cam - also a tear gas question

K

Krinkovliu

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Is there any possible drawback in wearing a bodycam while carrying a pistol. This would be used to document encounters with possible bad guys so if there was an escalation of violence you would have an audio and video recording of what happened. I see covert body cameras that look fountain pens for sale. It seems you could wear it in a pocket or around your neck (necklace style) and have it on whenever you are walking through hostile territory (lower Queen Anne, U District, Capitol Hill).

Also, whenever I am carrying a pistol I also carry a can of pepper spray. It seems that a defensible action when confronting just one or two bad guys is to pepper spray them and then use a firearm if the threat presists.

I am thinking of replacing my Fox Lab 2oz spray with their 3oz container with their "firemaster" nozzle that spews out a massive amount of spray in just seconds. This should take care of gangs of thugs.

Remember the Tuba Man!
 
R

RSO1911

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Not sure about the A/V gear, but the spray is good idea. It does give you more options.

I.E. sketchy looking subject runs up on you, not sure if they are going to try to rob you, no weapon in sight.... Hit em with the spray. That way, if they were only going to ask for the time, or tell you that your lights were on, you won't go to jail for having shot them.
 
T

Trigger Dr

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RSO1911 wrote:
Not sure about the A/V gear, but the spray is good idea. It does give you more options.

I.E. sketchy looking subject runs up on you, not sure if they are going to try to rob you, no weapon in sight.... Hit em with the spray. That way, if they were only going to ask for the time, or tell you that your lights were on, you won't go to jail for having shot them.
Click to expand...
Right!!! You will go to jail for assault.
 
Decoligny

Decoligny

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Trigger Dr wrote:
RSO1911 wrote:
Not sure about the A/V gear, but the spray is good idea. It does give you more options.

I.E. sketchy looking subject runs up on you, not sure if they are going to try to rob you, no weapon in sight.... Hit em with the spray. That way, if they were only going to ask for the time, or tell you that your lights were on, you won't go to jail for having shot them.
Click to expand...
Right!!! You will go to jail for assault.
Click to expand...
If you were reasonable in fear that you were being attacked, you would probably get off on the assault charge. If however, you used deadly force, for a situation where you were in fear of assault, but not in reasonable fear for your life, you might be in legal trouble.
 
D

Dave The Welder

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One of the OCers here in Pullman (ShadowFax) bought a cam pen direct from China for $20 and it works great. Looks just like a pen, takes good video and audio, and costs a fifth of the exact same pen bought here in the US. I'll see about getting him to post about it.
 
O

okkid

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I got one of the pens and the video is great but the sound could use some help but
for $20.00 and free shipping it is a good little setup.
 
B

bugly

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I was thinking about this same subject for a while. I wonder what would be brought up about "taping" the actions of others without their consent. I guess if it were as evidence if how a felony was committed, the only question would be "why do you record everything you do?" (Are you some kind of paranoid wacko? Are you a pervert trying to get free porn? etc.)
For a while in my life, I was being pulled over by the Renton P.D. every time I left my house, it was ridiculous and bordered on harassment (this is not an exaggeration, BTW). So, I thought it would be a good idea to install miniature video cameras in the windows of my car to prove to the judge what I was saying was actually happening (I was drawn on one time when I was pulled over for a license plate light being out, and I have no idea why, as there was no provokation on my part to warrent that.) I thought if I had proof of how I was being treated and spoken to, I would be able to get them to stop, but I was told that not only was that "illegal", but would be inadmissable as evidence. I don't really know, but I got to thinking "How would I explain why I had cameras in my car?"
The same question hold for the pen cams, how do you justify having one and how could you get it admitted into evidence?
BTW, tear gas can backfire, it doesn't work on everybody and if you get it on yourself, it really sucks if you're not one of the lucky ones that seem to be immune to it. (don't ask how I know this, it involves a few beers, a closed garage door and a couple of intelligence impaired friends. You do the math.)
 
TechnoWeenie

TechnoWeenie

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video is not illegal.

There is no expectation of privacy in public.

State law is in regards to private conversations.
 
R

RSO1911

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Trigger Dr wrote:
RSO1911 wrote:
Not sure about the A/V gear, but the spray is good idea. It does give you more options.

I.E. sketchy looking subject runs up on you, not sure if they are going to try to rob you, no weapon in sight.... Hit em with the spray. That way, if they were only going to ask for the time, or tell you that your lights were on, you won't go to jail for having shot them.
Click to expand...
Right!!! You will go to jail for assault.
Click to expand...
But for less time than Manslaughter.
 
J

Jered

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bugly wrote:
I was thinking about this same subject for a while. I wonder what would be brought up about "taping" the actions of others without their consent. I guess if it were as evidence if how a felony was committed, the only question would be "why do you record everything you do?" (Are you some kind of paranoid wacko? Are you a pervert trying to get free porn? etc.)
For a while in my life, I was being pulled over by the Renton P.D. every time I left my house, it was ridiculous and bordered on harassment (this is not an exaggeration, BTW). So, I thought it would be a good idea to install miniature video cameras in the windows of my car to prove to the judge what I was saying was actually happening (I was drawn on one time when I was pulled over for a license plate light being out, and I have no idea why, as there was no provokation on my part to warrent that.) I thought if I had proof of how I was being treated and spoken to, I would be able to get them to stop, but I was told that not only was that "illegal", but would be inadmissable as evidence. I don't really know, but I got to thinking "How would I explain why I had cameras in my car?"
The same question hold for the pen cams, how do you justify having one and how could you get it admitted into evidence?
BTW, tear gas can backfire, it doesn't work on everybody and if you get it on yourself, it really sucks if you're not one of the lucky ones that seem to be immune to it. (don't ask how I know this, it involves a few beers, a closed garage door and a couple of intelligence impaired friends. You do the math.)
Click to expand...
State v. Flora
 
J

joeroket

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NavyLT wrote:
I would be concerned about carrying pepper spray and a gun at the same time. Reason being if the SHTF really quickly and you had to use your gun first and it went to court, the prosecuting attorney might latch on to the fact that you did not try non lethal means to defend yourself first.
Click to expand...
I am not so sure I agree with this. Although I hear where you are coming from I think that the presence of pepper spray does not reduce your lawful ability to use deadly force and the police and prosecutor know this. Yea you might find one that goes overboard but I think they will go overboard regardless of the presence of pepper spray.
 
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joeroket

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Ajetpilot wrote:
I agree with NavyLt on this. Joerocket, do you carry pepper spray? If so why so; if not why not?

I thought about carrying it, but rejected the idea for the reason NavyLt mentioned.
Click to expand...
I do not carry it because I have a pistol and if I need non-lethal force i am capable of it without aid. If the time ever comes that I need non-lethal protection other than myself I would not hesitate to carry both.
 
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Jered

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NavyLT wrote:
I would be concerned about carrying pepper spray and a gun at the same time. Reason being if the SHTF really quickly and you had to use your gun first and it went to court, the prosecuting attorney might latch on to the fact that you did not try non lethal means to defend yourself first.
Click to expand...
RCW 9A.16.110
 
B

bugly

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Jered wrote:
NavyLT wrote:
I would be concerned about carrying pepper spray and a gun at the same time. Reason being if the SHTF really quickly and you had to use your gun first and it went to court, the prosecuting attorney might latch on to the fact that you did not try non lethal means to defend yourself first.
Click to expand...
RCW 9A.16.110
Click to expand...

Good answer, that covers a lot of questions on this subject, the only thing left at that point is to prove that what you decided to do was "reasonable" and that you felt you were in "iminant danger".

Thanks for the link
 
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RSO1911

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Personally, I'm not going to let the fear of what a prosecutor might do in the unlikely event I am defending myself with deadly force influence this particular decision.
 
B

bugly

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Indeed, it would be unwise to stand there and ponder which direction to go when someone is making decisions that will change your life for you. I would rather not have to be in that situation, but if it arises, I have the means to direct things in my favor.
Not a big fan of "pepper spray" or "tear gas", as those things can and will have unpredictable outcomes. I know what all of my different cartridges are capable of and what the outcome will be if they are used, so I prefer to go with that.
Like I said before, though, I'd rather try my best to stay out of those situations that might end in such usage, it tends to have much less paperwork involved and I sleep better at night knowing I haven't made anyone an orphan lately.
 
M

Manu

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joeroket wrote:
I do not carry it because I have a pistol and if I need non-lethal force i am capable of it without aid. If the time ever comes that I need non-lethal protection other than myself I would not hesitate to carry both.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you for non-lethal forceI amcapableof it myslef, I do not need aid of pepper spray,I'll take help of my gun when I'll see other person is using the same or is black-belt like me.
 
amlevin

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bugly wrote:
I sleep better at night knowing I haven't made anyone an orphan lately.
Click to expand...

Then there is also the question of who's kids are going to become orphans, his, or yours?

Some situations do not allow for multiple options. Employing a LTL method may use up all the time available and leave none for the Deadly Force option.
 
shad0wfax

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Dave The Welder wrote:
One of the OCers here in Pullman (ShadowFax) bought a cam pen direct from China for $20 and it works great. Looks just like a pen, takes good video and audio, and costs a fifth of the exact same pen bought here in the US. I'll see about getting him to post about it.
Click to expand...

I carry a SureFire backup, a pocket knife, my .45 and often times a DVR ink pen with me everywhere I go. I should carry the pen more often but it's only convenient when I'm wearing shirts with pockets. Many of the shirts I like to wear are T-shirts without pockets and the DVR pen is harder to use properly then.

Just be sure that you research case law, as WA is a 2-party consent state. I believe (as others have referenced) that there is no reasonable expectation for privacy in public and this allows you to record without notification, but you need to research the law on that yourself. It is also my understanding that you can record a public official while in the pursuit of their duties without consent even if privacy is expected, but again, you'll have to verify that case law yourself.

I think Flora vs. state is applicable, google it.
 
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