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Thread: Important Announcement!

  1. #1
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    Folks (especially the newbies),

    Please, PLEASE pay attention.

    If you are going to OC, then read and know the threads, “WASH, RINSE, REPEAT”, and, “MICHIGAN OPEN CARRY INFO HERE”.

    Learn it, live it, love it.

    This can’t be stressed enough!

    Too many people are going out OC without an adequate understanding of how to avoid any trouble that may occur as a result. We already have one member who has lost privileges as a result of his actions.

    Those threads were written for you, so take advantage of them! They are there to help you stay out of legal trouble. Don’t be cavalier about this. Proving your innocence in court is not as easy as it seems. It costs money, and lots of it. How many of you have $20,000 laying around to spend on a legal defense. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but the NRA isn’t exactly rushing to the aid of OC’ers who are being unlawfully detained, not to mention the ones who are getting themselves charged with rinky-dink (as well as legitimate) crimes as a result of not properly understanding how they should conduct themselves, and how to go about OC’ing. Nor is the ACLU exactly known for their pro-RKBA stance.

    That means knowing all the laws. Not just firearms law. If your going to OC, make sure you know that the town of …. doesn’t allow people to carry a pocket knife (even for utility purpose), and classifies a little SAK as a “dangerous weapon” (who cares that many people carry one or two every day since man first started using tools). How many of you have ever heard an officer ask, “Do you have any weapons/are you armed?” NEVER, answer that question. If an officer asks where you’re going, how do you know that your answer won’t indicate intent to inadvertently pass through a federal property? They ask questions to get you talking, and you have no idea how the officer will interpret things in court. Sure, you may be able to prove your innocence in court, but do you have that kind of money lying around? See this thread and watch the video of how an officer will twist things said on the street, once he is in the courtroom. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/24435.html

    Also, just because it's legal, doesn't mean you won't have to prove it in court. We all know that a handgun carried OC while IWB is most certainly not concealed. After all, we can obviously see the gun. However, that doesn't mean that you won't have to go to court because some overzealous prosecutor thinks he can drain your finances by taking you to court. Nor does it mean that a jurry of your peers will give you a fair ruling. Some people don't want you to carry a gun, Period. And even one gun owner (who actually has a liscence to carry a concealed pistol) called the cops on another gun owner just because he didn't like that person OC'ing. He is supposed to be one of us, yet he didn't let that stop him from his reprehensible behavior of sicking his attack dogs on an innocent citizen.

    People do not let go of their bigotry. Do you think a jurry of anti-gun bigots are going to look at an IWB and say, "Sure, I know I'm against personal carry for personal protection, but the law says that if I can tell it's a gun, then it isn't concealed, so I have to vote not guilty." If that's what you think will happen, then here is a news flash. What that jurror will do is think, "Well, if the law says he can carry that way if it's obvious (to a jurry of his peers) that it's a gun, then I'll just say it isn't obvious that it's a gun."



    Just last week I was talking to a instructor who expressed concern for anyone (let alone OC’ers). His words were basically, “don’t do anything to attract attention… things are going to get bad.” This underlies a undercurrent that is becoming more evident, and that is, “not all LEO are supportive or respectful of the rights of private citizens (especially the RKBA, and even more so the 4th)”. Even fewer of them appreciate OC. Go read some of the LE forums and notice their own comments. I’ve been doing so and have noticed a change from just a year or two ago, they are much more (openly) hostile toward the citizenry, and individual rights than they used to be.

    You need to learn how to protect yourself, and that doesn’t mean from private thugs. Protect yourself from legal action. Don't get sucked into a situation where the officer can claim consent/PC to search. Don't let them suck you into a consensual stop.


    Read those threads, commit them to memory, and do not deviate.



    ETA:

    Mabye some of you don’t realize this, but before Rosa Parks took an action that made her famous, there were two teenage girls who encountered the same experience just two weeks prior to Rosa Parks incident. When those two girls took their complaint to the ACLU, they were told the ACLU could not help them.

    Two weeks later, Rosa Parks (who just so happened to work for the ACLU) ran into the same problem, and thus history was made.

    Now, I’ve never verified the above story (about the two girls), and I doubt anyone would be able to, but it illustrates a bigger picture. Know when, and where, and how to pick your battles.




  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    This can’t be stressed enough!

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Something I have to stress is don't OC until you know the law inside and out, backwards and upside down. Always ask yourself if you will be OCing in accordance with all laws. Don't get eager with OCing, it's not worth prison time and/or tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

    Once you have that down and you go out and OC, keep your mouth SHUT when talking to the cops, if you get stopped. Don't tell them anything, beyond maybe the wash rinse repeat method. And carry multiple recorders if possible, with hopefully at least one in a concealed position. There are a lot of concealable "spy" video cameras and audio recorders that you can get inexpensively on sleazebay or elsewhere.

    You mentioned knives. While OCing in Michigan, I try to avoid carrying anything more than my leatherman, and sometimes I don't even take it. Guns are preempted, knives are not. If at all unsure about local laws, don't take a knife.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Can we sticky this? This is important to read.

  5. #5
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    Smoothsounds21 wrote:
    Can we sticky this? This is important to read.
    How many stickies do we need!

    No offense to you, but the two above mentioned threads should be enough. They are stickied, and just about every new member is told by at least two or three others to read them and commit them to memory. They are at the top of the page for crying out loud!

    I appreciate the plug for a sticky, and maybe it should be a tempory one (I don't know), but seriously, ...

    Then again, maybe they do need a thread titled "Important Announcement" to get their attention.

    Sadly, there really isn't much (the video linked) in this thread that isn't in the other two. I'll rectify that now.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Smoothsounds21 wrote:
    Can we sticky this? This is important to read.
    There are too many stickies as it is.

    As a group, we need to remind each other of all of these things often.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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